Grade The Diggs Trade

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Capco said:

I don't understand the A grades.  It's pretty much universally thought that Hopkins is better than Diggs.  If we had gotten Hopkins instead of Diggs, how do you grade that trade?  It'd be off the charts.  

 

A is reserved for the best outcomes.  This wasn't the best outcome.  

But we don’t know what the outcome is

 

 

[Troll Toll]

I gave it a B for a couple reasons:

 

1. An A is reserved for when you clearly got the better end of a deal. Like when we unloaded Dareus.

2. While a good player, he screams 2nd round to me. He doesn’t physically stand out amongst the top NFL receivers. He is a borderline #1 receiver and I think only marginally better than John Brown.

3. That said, I do think he helps this team and is instantly our best receiver.

 

One thing to watch... seems like most people are making big assumptions regarding how high receivers will get drafted. If Lamb is still sitting there when Buffalo would have picked, then this was a bad trade.

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

I gave it a B for a couple reasons:

 

1. An A is reserved for when you clearly got the better end of a deal. Like when we unloaded Dareus.

2. While a good player, he screams 2nd round to me. He doesn’t physically stand out amongst the top NFL receivers. He is a borderline #1 receiver and I think only marginally better than John Brown.

3. That said, I do think he helps this team and is instantly our best receiver.

 

One thing to watch... seems like most people are making big assumptions regarding how high receivers will get drafted. If Lamb is still sitting there when Buffalo would have picked, then this was a bad trade.

What if lamb never becomes as good as diggs

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

29 minutes ago, Jumpsuit Jim said:

Is this true? Not the first part of the post. That part sucks. But the second part of the post - the part that says the assets given up for Diggs equal moving up to the 18th pick. If that is true, then this pick was fabulous. 
 

Why? Because most mock drafts would require a move up to 15 to get Ruggs, the third best receiver in this year’s draft. After Ruggs, the talent level - while still high - drops off to a “Less Than Diggs” level. 
 

so it comes down to this: With Ruggs costing us more to get than us getting Diggs, is Ruggs better than Diggs? Maybe. Probably not. One thing for sure is that Ruggs won’t be better than Diggs right out of the box because the NFL is hard. 
 

Is Diggs as good as Diggs? Yes. Because Stefon Diggs is Diggs. 

 

I feel like the 3 picks have less value than that but that's just me.  5 and 6th round picks dont move the needle and a 4th in 2021 is less valuable than a 4th in 2020.

[BillsDiehard]

Who are the Boomers that graded this a D? Not sure what you want!? Diggs, Brown, Beasley, oh my!

[Dr. Who]

10 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

I gave it a B for a couple reasons:

 

1. An A is reserved for when you clearly got the better end of a deal. Like when we unloaded Dareus.

2. While a good player, he screams 2nd round to me. He doesn’t physically stand out amongst the top NFL receivers. He is a borderline #1 receiver and I think only marginally better than John Brown.

3. That said, I do think he helps this team and is instantly our best receiver.

 

One thing to watch... seems like most people are making big assumptions regarding how high receivers will get drafted. If Lamb is still sitting there when Buffalo would have picked, then this was a bad trade.

I don't think most folks judge Diggs only marginally better than Brown. If you are correct, it's an overpay. I think he's considerably better and effectively makes everyone better by slotting them into correct roles. Brown is a very good #2, a marginal #1.

2 minutes ago, BillsDiehard said:

Who are the Boomers that graded this a D? Not sure what you want!? Diggs, Brown, Beasley, oh my!

I dunno, is this a shot at the get off my lawn crowd? I just defended the trade, now get off my lawn

[MJS]

Surprised there are no F grades yet. Where are our resident miserly posters hiding?

[Augie]

You know what the great thing is about draft picks? They give you a CHANCE to get a player as good as Diggs. Just a chance. We all know the draft is a crap shoot. Diggs is proven in the league, and on a great contract for the next 4 years. Sure, maybe he gets more in a couple years, but he has little leverage now. 

 

If you point to the Hopkins trade, please tell us all the details from behind the scenes. Were they willing to trade him in the AFC?  Has he got more leverage in his contract situation and planning to ask for possibly DOUBLE what Diggs is getting? I think Hopkins was cheap because they knew what he’d be asking for, especially after the Cooper deal. 

 

I am thrilled at this point. 

[Troll Toll]

2 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

I don't think most folks judge Diggs only marginally better than Brown. If you are correct, it's an overpay. I think he's considerably better and effectively makes everyone better by slotting them into correct roles. Brown is a very good #2, a marginal #1.

Last year they both played 15 games:

Brown had 65 catches, 1003 yards and 7 TDs

Diggs had 63 catches, 1130 yards and 6 TDs

Some would argue Diggs played with the better QB. Watching Diggs’ highlights, Kirk made some deep throws that Josh couldn’t hit last year. That said, this should be the Bills best receiver group since Moulds/Price.

 

[BB2004]

5 hours ago, Bleedbuffaloblue said:

I’d say A-. Solid #1 WR in his prime with a favorable contract situation (4years remaining at a manageable per year cost and no guaranteed money). Would have been only slightly better if no 2021 picks included.

agreed 100%. Completely good with the trade and well worth it but for some reason I’m not a fan of giving up that 4th rounder next year.

[Troll Toll]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

What if lamb never becomes as good as diggs

He has a higher ceiling than Diggs and would be on a rookie contract. Maybe he ultimately won’t be as good as Diggs, but on the surface, if Lamb is somehow there at 22 then it makes the trade for a receiver with attitude problems look highly questionable.

[The Dean]

8 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

Last year they both played 15 games:

Brown had 65 catches, 1003 yards and 7 TDs

Diggs had 63 catches, 1130 yards and 6 TDs

Some would argue Diggs played with the better QB. Watching Diggs’ highlights, Kirk made some deep throws that Josh couldn’t hit last year. That said, this should be the Bills best receiver group since Moulds/Price.

 

 

 

Some would argue siting stats alone, without a deeper context of their roles, offenses, circumstances, etc, is a rather shallow way to compare two different players from two different teams.

 

Some might, for example, point out that Diggs was either Co-#1 (some argue he was #2) with Thielen while Brown was a clear #1 in the Bills offense in 2019.

 

Some might point out that Diggs was targeted on 94 plays, getting similar results as Brown, who was targeted on 115 plays.

 

Some would definately point out that Diggs has been the more consistent producer of the two, over the years. While Brown had a near career year with the Bills, Diggs (in a year where he had some issues and was deemed unhappy with the Vikes offense) had his second straight 1,000 yard plus season.

[John from Riverside]

24 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

He has a higher ceiling than Diggs and would be on a rookie contract. Maybe he ultimately won’t be as good as Diggs, but on the surface, if Lamb is somehow there at 22 then it makes the trade for a receiver with attitude problems look highly questionable.

A top 10 receiver with attitude problems

[DCofNC]

24 minutes ago, The Dean said:

 

 

Some would argue siting stats alone, without a deeper context of their roles, offenses, circumstances, etc, is a rather shallow way to compare two different players from two different teams.

 

Some might, for example, point out that Diggs was either Co-#1 (some argue he was #2) with Thielen while Brown was a clear #1 in the Bills offense in 2019.

 

Some might point out that Diggs was targeted on 94 plays, getting similar results as Brown, who was targeted on 115 plays.

 

Some would definately point out that Diggs has been the more consistent producer of the two, over the years. While Brown had a near career year with the Bills, Diggs (in a year where he had some issues and was deemed unhappy with the Vikes offense) had his second straight 1,000 yard plus season.

Sane people would be quick to point out Allen over threw WAY more targets that Cousins ever has or will.  Hence, it would take far more targets for anyone to produce with Allen throwing.

 

Also of note, if people would argue Diggs wasn’t the bonafide number one for his team, then WHY would you trade a 1st round pick for him? 

If Diggs was unhappy with his QB and his role in Minn, what makes anybody think it’s going to get better here?  That HAS to be the biggest joke of all this.  He was critical of a middle of the road, solid veteran QB on a winning team, playing in a dome.  Now you put him with Allen, in the elements and in a situation where it’s going to be hard to repeat a winning record?  Doesn’t look like a good move.

 

also, his “reasonable” contract is still $5MM+ more per year than a rookie deal.
 

 

7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

A top 10 receiver with attitude problems

He is not top 10, dude wasn’t a number 1 on his own team.

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

What if lamb never becomes as good as diggs

What if he becomes Julio Jones?

3 hours ago, Jumpsuit Jim said:

Is this true? Not the first part of the post. That part sucks. But the second part of the post - the part that says the assets given up for Diggs equal moving up to the 18th pick. If that is true, then this pick was fabulous. 
 

Why? Because most mock drafts would require a move up to 15 to get Ruggs, the third best receiver in this year’s draft. After Ruggs, the talent level - while still high - drops off to a “Less Than Diggs” level. 
 

so it comes down to this: With Ruggs costing us more to get than us getting Diggs, is Ruggs better than Diggs? Maybe. Probably not. One thing for sure is that Ruggs won’t be better than Diggs right out of the box because the NFL is hard. 
 

Is Diggs as good as Diggs? Yes. Because Stefon Diggs is Diggs. 

Check the chart, 4th next year is devalued a round.  You don’t know what will happen in the draft and Diggs was a low pick, so how can your evaluation be a logical one?

Edited March 18, 2020 by DCofNC

[The Dean]

14 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Sane people would be quick to point out Allen over threw WAY more targets that Cousins ever has or will.  Hence, it would take far more targets for anyone to produce with Allen throwing.

 

Also of note, if people would argue Diggs wasn’t the bonafide number one for his team, then WHY would you trade a 1st round pick for him? 

?

 

 

I didn't realize it was impossible for a team to have multiple players of great talent, at the same position. How could I be so naive?

[John from Riverside]

54 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Sane people would be quick to point out Allen over threw WAY more targets that Cousins ever has or will.  Hence, it would take far more targets for anyone to produce with Allen throwing.

 

Also of note, if people would argue Diggs wasn’t the bonafide number one for his team, then WHY would you trade a 1st round pick for him? 

If Diggs was unhappy with his QB and his role in Minn, what makes anybody think it’s going to get better here?  That HAS to be the biggest joke of all this.  He was critical of a middle of the road, solid veteran QB on a winning team, playing in a dome.  Now you put him with Allen, in the elements and in a situation where it’s going to be hard to repeat a winning record?  Doesn’t look like a good move.

 

also, his “reasonable” contract is still $5MM+ more per year than a rookie deal.
 

 

He is not top 10, dude wasn’t a number 1 on his own team.

What if he becomes Julio Jones?

Check the chart, 4th next year is devalued a round.  You don’t know what will happen in the draft and Diggs was a low pick, so how can your evaluation be a logical one?

You seriously are not getting it

 

- WIDELY considered to be one of the best if not THE best route runner in the NFL

- Your talking about what ifs for a rookie player who has not played a DOWN in the NFL.....every single one of these WR's could bust....Justin Jefferson could end up being the best WR out of this draft in the end.....look at what happened with Sammy Watkins.

 

Your trying to take what ifs and make them into real time now facts.   It just doesnt cumpute.

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, The Dean said:

 

 

I didn't realize it was impossible for a team to have multiple players of great talent, at the same position. How could I be so naive?

Neither one is a top WR, both just good.  Great is reserved for those that actually are.  As Parcels said, “if you have 2, you don’t have one”

39 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You seriously are not getting it

 

- WIDELY considered to be one of the best if not THE best route runner in the NFL

- Your talking about what ifs for a rookie player who has not played a DOWN in the NFL.....every single one of these WR's could bust....Justin Jefferson could end up being the best WR out of this draft in the end.....look at what happened with Sammy Watkins.

 

Your trying to take what ifs and make them into real time now facts.   It just doesnt cumpute.

You are the one not getting it, the guy is a borderline #1 and you want to crown the Bills as making a great deal.  He is An AVERAGE starter, not a star. 

Edited March 18, 2020 by DCofNC

[The Dean]

2 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Neither one is a top WR, both just good.  Great is reserved for those that actually are.  As Parcels said, “if you have 2, you don’t have one”

 

Despite being a good coach, Parcells said a lot of stupid stuff over the years.  This ranks close to the top of that list. 

[Just Joshin']

8 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Neither one is a top WR, both just good.  Great is reserved for those that actually are.  As Parcels said, “if you have 2, you don’t have one”

 

It is hard to take your POV seriously when you apply a quote on QBs to WRs. 

[DCofNC]

1 minute ago, Just Joshin' said:

It is hard to take your POV seriously when you apply a quote on QBs to WRs. 

Same principal, if you have two who people think are #1s, but neither are top 10 at their position, you don’t have a #1.