Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo

[US Egg]

3 minutes ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

You think the Pegula's are going to announce anything that is half baked?

.....like County Exec Poloncarz did today with his near half billion ($441,000,000) hair brained convention center proposal. 

 

Yeah, the Pegula's just got another reason to be leery of this guy.

[buffalobillsfootball]

1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

  I'm thinking more along the lines that somebody like the Erie County Exec or leading state senator or power broker regional congress person merely suggesting a dialog take place in terms of exploring what is possible.  Nobody is saying that the Pegula's should spout off without talking to a key player in such a move first.  Heck, the kickoff could come in terms of a column put out by a respected (there's a laugh) member of the area media.  

 

I think powers that be are talking behind the scenes but no body can do anything until the Pegula's make an announcement. Once the cat is out the bag look out - everyone will chime in.

Just now, I am the egg man said:

.....like County Exec Poloncarz did today with his near half billion ($441,000,000) hair brained convention center proposal. 

 

Yeah, the Pegula's just got another reason to be leery of this guy.

 

Today's news is nothing more than Poloncarzs' trying to force his way in on the stadium conversation. Unfortunately for Mark - he will likely be the last to the table regarding the stadium.

[US Egg]

54 minutes ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

Today's news is nothing more than Poloncarzs' trying to force his way in on the stadium conversation. Unfortunately for Mark - he will likely be the last to the table regarding the stadium.

Agreed. It was hollow bravado with a veiled thumb of the nose.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

They know the market, it's one that financially is not one that can support the current NFL. If Buffalo didn't have the Bills, would anyone seriously believe the NFL would be interested in granting them an expansion team?

 

If the market cannot support paying average NFL ticket prices, and there's no corporations willing to pay market value prices for boxes/suites, then the area can't support the NFL. It's why they tried to expand the market to play games in Toronto, if Buffalo could get support from Toronto, it could bring in some of the money from there to help out 

 

 

Well, if they really need and want both, building both together is going to be alot more affordable then doing them separate and would keep the total cost down on the project. It's easier for everyone to digest spending a $billion if they get a convention centre and stadium, instead of saying $800 million for a stadium and $500 million for a convention centre (and I am just using those numbers as examples, they will most likely be different)

 

 

Who is "they"?  The County has made clear they don't want to be footing a huge bill for a new stadium, so adding to their financial commitment/burden another few hundred million for an associated convention center that will be another financial loser makes zero sense.

 

Building another convention center would be dumb enough financially for the county all on it's own, so why would spending twice as much for both be a better decision?

 

There's no logic to any of this.  Spending a ton of taxpayer money poorly would be bad, but spending 2 tons would "be a lot more affordable".

 

Yikes.

[John in Jax]

Very interesting thread, although 99.9% of everything in here is pure speculation, or a "WAG", as we used to call it. LOL

 

My favorite part is one poster accusing another poster of being a "troll" or "super troll" for simply posting his honest opinions about the matter. There's seems to be a real lack of knowledge about the meaning of "trolling", "brigading", and "spamming" in this forum. Oh well, ignorance is bliss, I guess!

 

You can put me down as someone who agrees with those that feel that taxpayer money spent for billionaires' new playgrounds should be kept at an absolute minimum, like zero, if possible.

[buffalobillsfootball]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Who is "they"?  The County has made clear they don't want to be footing a huge bill for a new stadium, so adding to their financial commitment/burden another few hundred million for an associated convention center that will be another financial loser makes zero sense.

 

Building another convention center would be dumb enough financially for the county all on it's own, so why would spending twice as much for both be a better decision?

 

There's no logic to any of this.  Spending a ton of taxpayer money poorly would be bad, but spending 2 tons would "be a lot more affordable".

 

Yikes.

The Buffalo Bills are bigger than Erie County. 
 

Mark is all butt hurt he doesn’t have a seat at the table.

 

The Pegula’s know what the county can bring to the table.

 

Exciting times for sure.

[beerme1]

18 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Everybody has opinions

 

Troll? Everybody on this board knows I'm not a troll as a poster so that's laughable

 

You don't like my take on this issue? It's your right

 

But to call me out as a super troll is laughable when the community knows that isn't true

 

I got like 10 meh reactions today and they were like all from you..ive been an everyday poster on this board for years and you just doubled my meh reactions! That's literally how little meh reactions I've had cus I'm not a troll

 

Like dude,  you don't like my opinion on the stadium , guess what I'm not the only one who thinks like that ... It's your opinion.. my family's been season ticket holders for 2 generations I can have an opinion

 

And you take offense to my view of the city I love and lived in my whole life? It's a beautiful city that has a poverty problem..

 

I see you taking exception and this random buffalobills guy that I have never interacted with once in years. Not ALOT of people lol

 

Buffalo is WAYY more than downtown or Allentown or Elmwood village... The east and west sides are impoverished and lots of other parts aren't good as well. The drug and gang problem is crazy, I have a house on the Eastside I know

 

I'm not even knocking my city, that's why I never left but it's the truth that it's residents are struggling in a lot of places and statistics back it

 

Sure Elmwood village and Allentown and North Buffalo are gorgeous and doing good economically but that isn't all of buffalo

 

My POINT this whole time was taxpayers footed 75% of the last refurb .. if pegula foots 75% it can go anywhere and I will be happy.. if taxpayers are footing that 50-75% it needs to be economically feasible for all.. and a stadium in OP will probably be cheaper than one downtown... If it's not put it wherever he wants

 

I think thats very reasonable and not outlandish at all.. and when I get quoted I usually respond so I'm sorry if you found me repetitive

 

We should agree to disagree and leave it at that

 

 

 

 

 

Fair enough you win. Super troll is what I used due to the repetitiveness of your positions. I will even agree with some of your points. But you're painting us as a completely downtrodden place and we aren't and I take exception to being painted that way.

 

I respect your comment that if Pegula pays 75% you're on board with it. But what if he puts in 60% State 30% County 10% ?? Or some other variation that isn't local government heavy because there is a mutual agreement on our part that the County would be hard pressed to pay much at all. Oh and for good measure the arena situation will be 100% private money. I hope. 

 

I'm pretty sure it's happening and have always said they should demolish the Perry projects and reinvent that whole area. I am hopeful that when it's all done it is a part of Buffalo coming back and being a place on the rise instead of the downtrodden picture you keep presenting. And please. I live here too and have had seasons for both teams and so on...

I want to be here for the upswing of this place and be able to take some pride in showing it off. I will get off my meh crusade with you though. Take care and Go Bills!

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, beerme1 said:

 

Fair enough you win. Super troll is what I used due to the repetitiveness of your positions. I will even agree with some of your points. But you're painting us as a completely downtrodden place and we aren't and I take exception to being painted that way.

 

I respect your comment that if Pegula pays 75% you're on board with it. But what if he puts in 60% State 30% County 10% ?? Or some other variation that isn't local government heavy because there is a mutual agreement on our part that the County would be hard pressed to pay much at all. Oh and for good measure the arena situation will be 100% private money. I hope. 

 

I'm pretty sure it's happening and have always said they should demolish the Perry projects and reinvent that whole area. I am hopeful that when it's all done it is a part of Buffalo coming back and being a place on the rise instead of the downtrodden picture you keep presenting. And please. I live here too and have had seasons for both teams and so on...

I want to be here for the upswing of this place and be able to take some pride in showing it off. I will get off my meh crusade with you though. Take care and Go Bills!

Cheers! No hard feelings!

 

And I would never paint buffalo as a completely downtrodden place on purpose. As i said it is a gorgeous city with many beautiful places and landmarks and I TRULY BELIEVE we are seeing the revitalization of this great city

 

I have gone all over the country and I take my buffalo pride everywhere

 

I just can compartmentalize gorgeous places like Elwood village and North Buffalo and Allentown and Downtown and realize people on the east and west side and parts of south side aren't as fortunate

 

And I would have no problem with the bolded

 

Cheers

 

 

[steven50]

On 2/12/2020 at 4:51 AM, Buffalo716 said:

Well first because war memorial isn't in the greatest neighborhood

 

So the History argument is only valid if that history happened in what is now a good neighborhood? If its a bad neighborhood we skip ahead?

 

 

Quote

 

And 56 bucks for pizza and wings? What are you serving 20 people?

 

3. Me and my two adult sons normally watch the game together.

 

Quote

 

Unless I was having a party I would never spend that much on pizza and wings and I order pizza and wings a lot honestly

 

I just looked it up:

 

Lanovas

Family Pak with Wings $59.99

Bocces
1 Whole Pizza 18.63
One double order of wings $19.82

Avenue
Large Cheese and Pepperoni Pizza and Chicken Wings $34.79

 

With taxes those are all close to $50 dollars. If your ordering those tiny tasteless dominoes or Pizza huts Pizzas your probably in the minority in Buffalo...... and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

Quote

 

And yes obviously you are doing great money wise.. you know who isn't ? Most people liviing in the city.

 

You and me and probably most here are probably doing well enough but the people in the city by and large aren't

 

I am retired military, enlisted not officer. I doubt many would think my retirement check was that great.

 

I also live in the city and Lanova's, one of the most expensive Pizza joints in the area is in the City on the west side and they dont seem to be lacking for customers. Also when I drive through riverside, the west side, or any other part of the city in the morning I see lines of cars full of people buying $5 cups of coffee when we all have coffee makers at home. An extra couple of bucks 8 times a year isn't going to break the bank for most people already attending Bills games.

 

This concern about poor city people....... If your concerned you shouldn't be. If the stadium is downtown we wont have to pay to get out to OP and wont have to pay ridiculous parking fees once we get there. Even if they raised ticket prices it would be cheaper for us poor city people to hop the train downtown and walk to the stadium like we we do for Sabres or Bison's games. If they raised ticket prices 25 dollars tomorrow and moved the stadium downtown that is still a net positive gain for me.

 

Just be honest. You want in to stay in OP because your used to it. All these post about "poverty" and "history" is just a coverup for "I am lazy and I am used to this so I dont want it to change" or worse "I live in the burbs and the thought of going in to the city terrifies me"

 

I get it. This is Buffalo, this is what we do. We dont want anything to change. Its one of the reason I came back here instead of retiring in a military town like all my buddies did. I actually love this place and am cursed with thinking the same way. I wish I could go downtown and get one of those big greasy burgers they used to serve at Grants lunch counter. After that I would grab coffee at Your Host and on the weekends I would get taffy and fudge at crystal beach.

 

Woolworth's anyone?

 

"Passengers please buckle your seat belts and prepare for landing. We will be arriving in Buffalo NY shortly. Please set your clocks and watches back 30 years."

 

Times have changed. We have to change with them.

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by steven50

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, steven50 said:

 

So the History argument is only valid if that history happened in what is now a good neighborhood? If its a bad neighborhood we skip ahead?

 

 

 

3. Me and my two adult sons normally watch the game together.

 

 

I just looked it up:

 

Lanovas

Family Pak with Wings $59.99

Bocces
1 Whole Pizza 18.63
One double order of wings $19.82

Avenue
Large Cheese and Pepperoni Pizza and Chicken Wings $34.79

 

With taxes those are all close to $50 dollars. If your ordering those tiny tasteless dominoes or Pizza huts Pizzas your probably in the minority in Buffalo...... and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

 

I am retired military, enlisted not officer. I doubt many would think my retirement check was that great.

 

I also live in the city and Lanova's, one of the most expensive Pizza joints in the area is in the City on the west side and they dont seem to be lacking for customers. Also when I drive through riverside, the west side, or any other part of the city in the morning I see lines of cars full of people buying $5 cups of coffee when we all have coffee makers at home. An extra couple of bucks 8 times a year isn't going to break the bank for most people already attending Bills games.

 

This concern about poor city people....... If your concerned you shouldn't be. If the stadium is downtown we wont have to pay to get out to OP and wont have to pay ridiculous parking fees once we get there. Even if they raised ticket prices it would be cheaper for us poor city people to hop the train downtown and walk to the stadium like we we do for Sabres or Bison's games. If they raised ticket prices 25 dollars tomorrow and moved the stadium downtown that is still a net positive gain for me.

 

Just be honest. You want in to stay in OP because your used to it. All these post about "poverty" and "history" is just a coverup for "I am lazy and I am used to this so I dont want it to change" or worse "I live in the burbs and thought of going in to the city terrifies me"

 

I get it. This is Buffalo, this is what we do. We dont want anything to change. Its one of the reason I came back here instead of retiring in a military town like all my buddies did. I actually love this place and am cursed with thinking the same way. I wish I could go downtown and get one of those big greasy burgers they used to serve at Grants lunch counter. After that I would grab coffee at Your Host and on the weekends I would get taffy and fudge at crystal beach.

 

Woolworth's anyone?

 

"Passengers please buckle your seat belts and prepare for landing. We will be arriving in Buffalo NY shortly. Please set your clocks and watches back 30 years."

 

Times have changed. We have to change with them.

 

First . Thank you for your service

 

Second, Ew gross Domino's? I'm a Buffalonian man!

 

I just ordered a medium pizza and 10 wings for my girl and I today from Picasso's. 27 bucks good deal...  I can definitely see your price for 3 grown men tho 

 

Third War memorial IS absolutely a piece of Bills history in my mind and should never be forgotten. The AFL years are still super important in my mind.. But it's really not the greatest part of town and there are just better options for the stadium imo 

 

And I brought up the poverty because I have a house on the Eastside and see lots of poverty and struggling

 

Top 3 pizza joints in Buffalo?

 

[steven50]

I know Lanovas is number 1 for business, not sure about the others...... That's just were I order from?

[Buffalo716]

47 minutes ago, steven50 said:

I know Lanovas is number 1 for business, not sure about the others...... That's just were I order from?

Gotcha lol I was asking for your top 3 

 

LaNovas

LaNovas

LaNovas

 

They do make a good pie ?

[buffalobillsfootball]

Why a combined Bills stadium-convention center isn't in the cards

 

Quote

When asked how county government could balance the costs of  both a Bills stadium and the convention center, Poloncarz replied, "We can do it."

 

WOW - ok - I guess the state of NY is rich and we can do it all.

[BUFFALOKIE]

On 2/12/2020 at 2:46 PM, Mr. WEO said:

He has the money; it's there..

 

 

I got ridiculed for even suggesting this, but I believe El Pugaul will throw his ginormous junk on the table, pay for it all, receive all the benefits and glory, and, as Captain Kirk Cousins said, say "YOU LIKE THAT?"

 

I dont believe that Mr and Mrs Pegula are the type to take their money to the grave.

[Punching Bag]

8 hours ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

Why a combined Bills stadium-convention center isn't in the cards

 

 

WOW - ok - I guess the state of NY is rich and we can do it all.

 

 

Well the NFL should be contributing but maybe rule only applies if you have $200 tickets and multi-thousand dollar PSLs.

[apuszczalowski]

10 hours ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

Why a combined Bills stadium-convention center isn't in the cards

 

 

WOW - ok - I guess the state of NY is rich and we can do it all.

Is there an election coming up or something????

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, BUFFALOKIE said:

 

 

I got ridiculed for even suggesting this, but I believe El Pugaul will throw his ginormous junk on the table, pay for it all, receive all the benefits and glory, and, as Captain Kirk Cousins said, say "YOU LIKE THAT?"

 

I dont believe that Mr and Mrs Pegula are the type to take their money to the grave.

 
well...he doesn’t even own his jet you know.

 

#terryischeap

[beerme1]

5 hours ago, BUFFALOKIE said:

 

 

I got ridiculed for even suggesting this, but I believe El Pugaul will throw his ginormous junk on the table, pay for it all, receive all the benefits and glory, and, as Captain Kirk Cousins said, say "YOU LIKE THAT?"

 

I dont believe that Mr and Mrs Pegula are the type to take their money to the grave.

 

While I would love this I can't see it happening. Billionaires don't spend it all when they don't need to. And they won't need to. A simple ask will be received well by the State and the County and even to a much smaller scale the city imo. If it were me and all I had to do was ask, I would ask for the 40% contribution and not care where it came from. 

And diving deep here I'll say in a perfect world I could see the city paying to demo the Perry St projects, the State to build the infrastructure needed with 190 interchanges etc and the Pegulas simply saying ok, if you're going to that length we are building a 1 Billion dollar stadium on our dime. I'm positive that is way too optimistic. And I may be alone in this thought but I think there is a new arena coming also. That's another 400 million out of Pegulas pocket. People really need to stop bashing them as owners despite their flaws

They are committed to us. Viva El Pegul!

[PromoTheRobot]

On 2/13/2020 at 11:56 PM, steven50 said:

 I wish I could go downtown and get one of those big greasy burgers they used to serve at Grants lunch counter. After that I would grab coffee at Your Host and on the weekends I would get taffy and fudge at crystal beach.

 

Woolworth's anyone?

 

Give it time. More people are living downtown and more are on the way. Someone will open a  decent greasy burger joint eventually.

9 hours ago, beerme1 said:

 

While I would love this I can't see it happening. Billionaires don't spend it all when they don't need to. And they won't need to. A simple ask will be received well by the State and the County and even to a much smaller scale the city imo. If it were me and all I had to do was ask, I would ask for the 40% contribution and not care where it came from. 

And diving deep here I'll say in a perfect world I could see the city paying to demo the Perry St projects, the State to build the infrastructure needed with 190 interchanges etc and the Pegulas simply saying ok, if you're going to that length we are building a 1 Billion dollar stadium on our dime. I'm positive that is way too optimistic. And I may be alone in this thought but I think there is a new arena coming also. That's another 400 million out of Pegulas pocket. People really need to stop bashing them as owners despite their flaws

They are committed to us. Viva El Pegul!

 

They will split the bill: state, county, city, owner, Delaware North, some kind of PSLs, and the NFL.

[T master]

Hypothetically saying  !!!  And i know this is some what foolish thought but i'm just saying ...

 

Given the kind of cash the NFL generates just from the TV side of things alone in "1 TV contract" it looks as if they could build each team a new Billion $ stadium each year & at the end of the 32 team build would still have some $7 Billion dollars left over thats just one TV contract & that would be handing out 1 per year per team 32 yrs .

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_on_television#Current_broadcasting_contracts

 

Which during that time period there would be more than a few more TV contracts signed that's not including what ever other income the league generates, so even if the NFL gave out half the cost to build these new palaces ($500 million) that they say are so imperative to teams being relevant in their respective regions why isn't the league (especially seeing as they are the ones that will be directly effected monetarily) made to invest that money in each teaming this way.

 

It seems as though the fans are expected to carry the huge blunt of the expense weather it's from taxes levied in their region, ticket sales, NFL memorabilia sales, TV packages, & all other things related & the league & players sits back & collects the cash !

 

Cause lets face it these exorbitant contracts that the players get come from that cash generated too I know nothing like this will ever happen but it's just a brain flush  ? !

 

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, T master said:

Hypothetically saying  !!!  And i know this is some what foolish thought but i'm just saying ...

 

Given the kind of cash the NFL generates just from the TV side of things alone in "1 TV contract" it looks as if they could build each team a new Billion $ stadium each year & at the end of the 32 team build would still have some $7 Billion dollars left over thats just one TV contract & that would be handing out 1 per year per team 32 yrs .

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_on_television#Current_broadcasting_contracts

 

Which during that time period there would be more than a few more TV contracts signed that's not including what ever other income the league generates, so even if the NFL gave out half the cost to build these new palaces ($500 million) that they say are so imperative to teams being relevant in their respective regions why isn't the league (especially seeing as they are the ones that will be directly effected monetarily) made to invest that money in each teaming this way.

 

It seems as though the fans are expected to carry the huge blunt of the expense weather it's from taxes levied in their region, ticket sales, NFL memorabilia sales, TV packages, & all other things related & the league & players sits back & collects the cash !

 

Cause lets face it these exorbitant contracts that the players get come from that cash generated too I know nothing like this will ever happen but it's just a brain flush  ? !

 

 

 

 

 

 

Might want to check your math.  The entire revenue the NFL generated was just over 16 billion in 2018.

[PromoTheRobot]

Consider this...Fans from Toronto, Hamilton, and St. Catherines could conceivably take a train right to the game Downtown.

[TSNBDSC]

Why keep kicking this thing down the road and all the drama that comes with it. Build a new one and be done with it.

[Gordio]

On 2/13/2020 at 2:29 PM, apuszczalowski said:

They know the market, it's one that financially is not one that can support the current NFL. If Buffalo didn't have the Bills, would anyone seriously believe the NFL would be interested in granting them an expansion team?

 

If the market cannot support paying average NFL ticket prices, and there's no corporations willing to pay market value prices for boxes/suites, then the area can't support the NFL. It's why they tried to expand the market to play games in Toronto, if Buffalo could get support from Toronto, it could bring in some of the money from there to help out 

 

 

Well, if they really need and want both, building both together is going to be alot more affordable then doing them separate and would keep the total cost down on the project. It's easier for everyone to digest spending a $billion if they get a convention centre and stadium, instead of saying $800 million for a stadium and $500 million for a convention centre (and I am just using those numbers as examples, they will most likely be different)

 

 

That is a flawed way of thinking.  Could we compete with the likes of Dallas, NYC etc... no.  But we can compete with some of the other franchises.  Like I said someone has to be last in revenues.  You know I remember when Fitz had the Bills off to a good start & the year Edwards had the Bills off to a good start the secondary market the Bills had the highest ticket prices for home games of any team in the league for a few particular Sundays in October.  I thought to myself that is interesting.  I remember that San Diego game when the power went out at the Ralph(probably Edwards best game) I remember I was tailgating in the parking lot & I needed an extra ticket for my wife & you couldn't touch a ticket for under $200 that day.  

[PromoTheRobot]

@Buffalo716 keeps raising the poverty rate in Buffalo city (30%) as proof that Buffalo can't afford nice things. But there might be 20% in the area that can. Aren't we heading for a world like the Hunger Games where the elites have all the wealth? All you need is a few thousand who can afford such extravagance to make it work.

[Lurker]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

@Buffalo716 keeps raising the poverty rate in Buffalo city (30%) as proof that Buffalo can't afford nice things. But there might be 20% in the area that can. Aren't we heading for a world like the Hunger Games where the elites have all the wealth? All you need is a few thousand who can afford such extravagance to make it work.

 

The City of Buffalo makes up only 25% of the metropolitan area and about 10% of the regional market.    The poverty numbers are concentrated in the urban core, just as they are in Cleveland, Cincinnati, Baltimore and other Rust Belt markets.    Median household income in the surrounding non-urban markets -- which make up 90% of the region -- is 85% to 90% of the U.S. total and are even higher the closer you get to Toronto.   

 

The Bills have no problem selling tickets.    The issue is a lack of potential corporate suite buyers and how much they can raise season ticket prices, given how historically low they've been relative to other franchises... 

[PromoTheRobot]

4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

The City of Buffalo makes up only 25% of the metropolitan area and about 10% of the regional market.    The poverty numbers are concentrated in the urban core, just as they are in Cleveland, Cincinnati, Baltimore and other Rust Belt markets.    Median household income in the surrounding non-urban markets -- which make up 90% of the region -- is 85% to 90% of the U.S. total and are even higher the closer you get to Toronto.   

 

The Bills have no problem selling tickets.    The issue is a lack of potential corporate suite buyers and how much they can raise season ticket prices, given how historically low they've been relative to other franchises... 

 

BINGO. That is the REAL economic handicap of WNY when it come to pro sports teams. The lack of large companies with an entertainment budget. But Toronto has a ton and Rochester still has a few left.  I mentioned the train idea, being able to bring Canadian fans by trainload right to the gate of a downtown stadium. I can see that as a lure.  

Edited February 18, 2020 by PromoTheRobot

[apuszczalowski]

48 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

BINGO. That is the REAL economic handicap of WNY when it come to pro sports teams. The lack of large companies with an entertainment budget. But Toronto has a ton and Rochester still has a few left.  I mentioned the train idea, being able to bring Canadian fans by trainload right to the gate of a downtown stadium. I can see that as a lure.  

A cross border train? Do you know how long the Niagara region has been fighting to get a regular train down to the area from Toronto? A few years ago they started in just the summer and recently started a regular one year round. It might take a while to get one that will take you to Buffalo from Niagara.....

 

 

4 hours ago, Gordio said:

 

 

That is a flawed way of thinking.  Could we compete with the likes of Dallas, NYC etc... no.  But we can compete with some of the other franchises.  Like I said someone has to be last in revenues.  You know I remember when Fitz had the Bills off to a good start & the year Edwards had the Bills off to a good start the secondary market the Bills had the highest ticket prices for home games of any team in the league for a few particular Sundays in October.  I thought to myself that is interesting.  I remember that San Diego game when the power went out at the Ralph(probably Edwards best game) I remember I was tailgating in the parking lot & I needed an extra ticket for my wife & you couldn't touch a ticket for under $200 that day.  

But once the can move Buffalo up to closer to average, they switch their focus to the next lowest revenue team to force them to do more, and then the next, etc. Businesses are always trying to increase their revenue and make more, they don't like doing things for nothing, and if things aren't making money, they cut them out. They won't be happy just letting Buffalo be the lowest revenue team because their fans like it and can't afford more without cutting into their tailgating money. If there's an area that can make more, they will tell the Bills to start making more or they will be out.

[Buffalo716]

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

@Buffalo716 keeps raising the poverty rate in Buffalo city (30%) as proof that Buffalo can't afford nice things. But there might be 20% in the area that can. Aren't we heading for a world like the Hunger Games where the elites have all the wealth? All you need is a few thousand who can afford such extravagance to make it work.

I use the poverty rate for my argument that PEGULA needs to pony up 70%

 

The people can't pay 50-60% of the stadium thats all

[Lurker]

51 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I use the poverty rate for my argument that PEGULA needs to pony up 70%

 

The people can't pay 50-60% of the stadium thats all

 

City of Buffalo residents (where the bulk of low-income households are located) would pay virtually nothing toward a new stadium--regardless of the poverty issue.    The State of New York would bear the brunt of whatever governmental contribution is required...

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

City of Buffalo residents (where the bulk of low-income households are located) would pay virtually nothing toward a new stadium--regardless of the poverty issue.    The State of New York would bear the brunt of whatever governmental contribution is required...

Taxpayers payed 80% of the refurbish 5 years ago. Including the people in the inner city

 

They can't foot anything close to that for a billion dollar stadium

Edited February 18, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Lurker]

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Taxpayers payed 80% of the refurbish 5 years ago. Including the people in the inner city

 

They can't foot anything close to that for a billion dollar stadium

 

People in the 'inner city' pay an infinitesimal amount of taxes.    You know, cause they're poor.   

 

That's how progressive taxation works...

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

People in the 'inner city' pay an infinitesimal amount of taxes.    You know, cause they're poor.   

 

That's how progressive taxation works...

All Erie county taxpayers footed 80% of the refurbish. City , suburbs etc

 

We can't foot 80% of a billion dollar stadium , Pegula is gonna have to put the majority

Edited February 19, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Lurker]

25 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

All Erie county taxpayers footed 80% of the refurbish. City , suburbs etc

 

We can't foot 80% of a billion dollar stadium , Pegula is gonna have to put the majority

 

Now you're changing your argument.   Before, it was about poverty in the City of Buffalo.     Now it's county-wide.

 

BTW, New York State paid 42% of the 2014 refurbish, while Erie County's prortion was 32%:

 

"The agreement signed by Governor Cuomo last year calls for $130 million in upgrades. The Bills are contributing significantly -- $35 million -- to the capital improvements to the Stadium. The state is contributing $54 million and the countys share is $41 million."

 

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-applauds-progress-ralph-wilson-stadium-upgrades

 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Lurker

[Buffalo716]

23 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Now you're changing your argument.   Before, it was about poverty in the City of Buffalo.     Now it's county-wide.

 

BTW, New York State paid 42% of the 2014 refurbish, while Erie County's prortion was 32%:

 

"The agreement signed by Governor Cuomo last year calls for $130 million in upgrades. The Bills are contributing significantly -- $35 million -- to the capital improvements to the Stadium. The state is contributing $54 million and the countys share is $41 million."

 

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-applauds-progress-ralph-wilson-stadium-upgrades

 

 

Yes erie taxpayers pay the county share 41million (more than pegula) and I believe we also pay  on the 54 million of the state.. I'm don't work for the state so I'm not 100% but pretty sure that how it works

http://www.dailypublic.com/articles/01272015/stadium-talk-100-million-bill taxpayers paid 100 of 130 million

 

And yes poor people in the city can't foot 6x that in taxes if it comes to a new stadium

 

I'm done with this topic

 

The tax payers shouldn't have to foot 70% of a new stadium, young , poor , green , brown , black or white but especially the poor

Edited February 19, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Lurker]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I'm done with this topic

 

That's good, since you have very little understanding of state and local tax revenue and spending streams.   

 

Erie County residents with adjusted gross incomes below $25,000 paid zero NYS income tax in 2016 (latest year available).  Those with AGI's between $25,000 and $49,999 paid just 2.7%, which translated to $966 per filer.  That was TOTAL New York State income taxes--so any portion used to fund a hypothetical stadium would be on the order of a buck or two of their tax payment.

 

OTOH, filers with AGI's of $200,000 or more paid 6.4% ($30,218 per filer).    Those lucky folks made up just 3% of Erie County filers but accounted for 38% of the income tax payments sent to Albany.     

 

Local property taxes levied by Erie County, while not as progressive as the state income tax, still put the onus on wealthier households.    The county's stadium contribution would be bonded out and paid back over many years, with large property owners funding the bulk of that nut.

 

NYS's golden goose is the well-to-do income earners in the New York City area--who would certainly pay the largest portion of any state-funded stadium project...

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

 

That's good, since you have very little understanding of state and local tax revenue and spending streams.   

 

Erie County residents with adjusted gross incomes below $25,000 paid zero NYS income tax in 2016 (latest year available).  Those with AGI's between $25,000 and $49,999 paid just 2.7%, which translated to $966 per filer.  That was TOTAL New York State income taxes--so any portion used to fund a hypothetical stadium would be on the order of a buck or two of their tax payment.

 

OTOH, filers with AGI's of $200,000 or more paid 6.4% ($30,218 per filer).    Those lucky folks made up just 3% of Erie County filers but accounted for 38% of the income tax payments sent to Albany.     

 

Local property taxes levied by Erie County, while not as progressive as the state income tax, still put the onus on wealthier households.    The county's stadium contribution would be bonded out and paid back over many years, with large property owners funding the bulk of that nut.

 

NYS's golden goose is the well-to-do income earners in the New York City area--who would certainly pay the largest portion of any state-funded stadium project...

 

If WNY ponied up 50% of a 1B stadium what would that mean to taxpayers then

[Lurker]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

If WNY ponied up 50% of a 1B stadium what would that mean to taxpayers then

 

A.   It won't be a $1 billion stadium.  Pegs has said as much.   More like $850-$900 million.

 

B.   Erie County won't pony up 50% (and no other WNY counties would even be involved).    They'd likely contribute maybe $50 million or so, which is pretty consistent with their past stadium investments.  Polencarz has already said the County isn't going to pay for a new stadium.    

 

C.  New York State would probably be on the hook for $300-$400 million (ballpark guess), with 70% of that coming from downstate taxpayers--who overwhelmingly fund the bulk of NYS spending.   

 

D.   The Pegula's would maybe chip in $250-$300 million and the NFL stadium fund could be tapped to pay the rest.

 

 

 

 

[beerme1]

32 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

If WNY ponied up 50% of a 1B stadium what would that mean to taxpayers then

 

 

Super Dude ? I think you need to wait and see what an agreement is actually is made up of. You know damn well it won't be 50% WNY. But then don't be shocked if Poloncarz decides that after his $150 mil contribution for a stadium project that he feels he needs to put his stamp on the area with a new $350 mil convention center. Then what? You're at half a billion and it's not cause of the Bills. I have an idea of how the funding goes and have stated it. It's nothing like what you are putting forth and yet Poloncarz seems hell bent on a convention center and that really will put us in the numbers you talk about. But that won't be the Bills fault.

I am way more inclined to see an end result more like Pegula's 60%, State 25% County 13% and city 2% but that convention center I'll tell ya, we're gonna hurt with that one. Now about all the infrastructure that will be needed....?

 

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

A.   It won't be a $1 billion stadium.  Pegs has said as much.   More like $850-$900 million.

 

B.   Erie County won't pony up 50% (and no other WNY counties would even be involved).    They'd likely contribute maybe $50 million or so, which is pretty consistent with their past stadium investments.  Polencarz has already said the County isn't going to pay for a new stadium.    

 

C.  New York State would probably be on the hook for $300-$400 million (ballpark guess), with 70% of that coming from downstate taxpayers--who overwhelmingly fund the bulk of NYS spending.   

 

D.   The Pegula's would maybe chip in $250-$300 million and the NFL stadium fund could be tapped to pay the rest.

 

 

 

 

Thanks just wondering ?

3 minutes ago, beerme1 said:

 

 

Super Dude ? I think you need to wait and see what an agreement is actually is made up of. You know damn well it won't be 50% WNY. But then don't be shocked if Poloncarz decides that after his $150 mil contribution for a stadium project that he feels he needs to put his stamp on the area with a new $350 mil convention center. Then what? You're at half a billion and it's not cause of the Bills. I have an idea of how the funding goes and have stated it. It's nothing like what you are putting forth and yet Poloncarz seems hell bent on a convention center and that really will put us in the numbers you talk about. But that won't be the Bills fault.

I am way more inclined to see an end result more like Pegula's 60%, State 25% County 13% and city 2% but that convention center I'll tell ya, we're gonna hurt with that one. Now about all the infrastructure that will be needed....?

 

For sure

 

I guess all we have to do is wait ... And it's the hardest part

 

All I know is that I just want my great grandchildren to see the Buffalo Bills

Edited February 19, 2020 by Buffalo716