The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[Big Blitz]

 

 

 

They wear masks better there I guess.  

 

Maybe they got those N95s because I was told today your cloth mask is useless.   

[Sundancer]

7 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

arghh..have not been around here much lately..but now i get your game.

 

Point to a post with some tagged content, suggest someone does not understand the meaning of the post and content and infer you do , but then offer no meaningful reply on your thoughts on said content. 

 

You ran this same game with me, i fell for it, dumb on me...i assume you just have nothing meaningful to contribute from now on...as you admitted earlier

 

 

You maybe don’t get what that post was all about. Most of the account repeating the same thing yesterday were right wing accounts. They were intentionally crap posting. It’s a weird move.

 

No idea what game you think I’m playing. I questioned you to think critically about the chart you posted and explain it. You never did though Oldmanfan eventually did it. 

[plenzmd1]

12 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

You maybe don’t get what that post was all about. Most of the account repeating the same thing yesterday were right wing accounts. They were intentionally crap posting. It’s a weird move.

 

No idea what game you think I’m playing. I questioned you to think critically about the chart you posted and explain it. You never did though Oldmanfan eventually did it. 

My complaint with your posts is the “ do you know what this means/ is, I suspect you do not”.  It’s Condescending , and it implies those posting are rubes and surely not capable of critical thought. Trolling activity.  
 

In terms of the answer, I absolutley answered. I suspect you do not understand the answer so I will explain in more detail. 
 

The majority of older folks and people with greater comorbidities were first up in the vax  line. As they got 5-6-7 months removed from taking the vax , those conditions ran their course and nature took over. As the vaccine did it’s job , many of these folks would be asymptomatic or mild symptoms and only testing upon hospitalization for their other ailments. They died from those other conditions, not Covid, and rightly not being counted as Covid death, as @oldmanfan correctly  pointed out. 
 

 

 

Unfortunately , the same could not be said for all pre vaccine Covid deaths. Early in the pandemic especially. See Birx below. Many still question cause of death based on funding rules if a facility was treating someone for Covid as opposed to advanced kidney disease. 

 

 

I am certainly not calling out any grand conspiracy theory, just that the CDC if full of poop and will assuage numbers that fit their message better. 
 

 

[Sundancer]

17 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

My complaint with your posts is the “ do you know what this means/ is, I suspect you do not”.  It’s Condescending , and it implies those posting are rubes and surely not capable of critical thought. Trolling activity.  
 

In terms of the answer, I absolutley answered. I suspect you do not understand the answer so I will explain in more detail. 
 

The majority of older folks and people with greater comorbidities were first up in the vax  line. As they got 5-6-7 months removed from taking the vax , those conditions ran their course and nature took over. As the vaccine did it’s job , many of these folks would be asymptomatic or mild symptoms and only testing upon hospitalization for their other ailments. They died from those other conditions, not Covid, and rightly not being counted as Covid death, as @oldmanfan correctly  pointed out. 
 

 

 

Unfortunately , the same could not be said for all pre vaccine Covid deaths. Early in the pandemic especially. See Birx below. Many still question cause of death based on funding rules if a facility was treating someone for Covid as opposed to advanced kidney disease. 

 

 

I am certainly not calling out any grand conspiracy theory, just that the CDC if full of poop and will assuage numbers that fit their message better. 
 

 

I asked this before and will try again. If people were dying who would otherwise be dying (your “with Covid” and not “from Covid” argument), we can expect that overall deaths in the last 18 months should be level, right? Not just early on but also later in the pandemic. 

[plenzmd1]

22 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

I asked this before and will try again. If people were dying who would otherwise be dying (your “with Covid” and not “from Covid” argument), we can expect that overall deaths in the last 18 months should be level, right? Not just early on but also later in the pandemic. 

Jesus, did you take sales training or something? Always answer a question with a question… too scared to have an opinion I guess. 
 

Two things here 

 

1) no one said , Certainly not me, people were not dying because of Covid 19. The assertion I am making and you clearly cannot follow is the numbers and counting can change based. Even the CDC estimates , key word here is estimates excess deaths “ associated “ with Covid is 75-80 %. Where are the other 20 % coming from? Collateral damage I guess. 
 

2) why don’t you answer the question why the CDC is making recommendations off a presentation that has a slide in there showing 15% of hospital deaths that were Covid positive in May were fully vaccinated.

 

3) also, please explain the PTown study contained in same presentation as the basis for new masking recommendations and why you believe in it’s veracity and why it should be used to guide national Covid policy moving forward. 
 

Until you answer those questions, I will not answer any of yours. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

48 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

I asked this before and will try again. If people were dying who would otherwise be dying (your “with Covid” and not “from Covid” argument), we can expect that overall deaths in the last 18 months should be level, right? Not just early on but also later in the pandemic. 

 

The basic premise of your argument seems logical but incomplete.  Which if I interpret it correctly is that if COVID has no impact because these deaths would have occurred anyway we wouldn't see a spike in the death rate and count during the pandemic.  But as we see a spike that is evidence COVID is causing additional deaths than would otherwise not have happened.

 

What I think needs to be considered is the variable of time and the concept of regression to mean.  What COVID is doing is pulling forward deaths that would otherwise have occurred or be reported in some future time period.  The additional deaths are being "borrowed" from the future and pulled forward and the reported death rate will be lower than "normal" for those future time periods.  What is going to happen is these additional deaths will be subtracted from future time periods.  Until the stat adjust back to trend.  Which is regression to mean.

 

More or less nobody gets out of life alive and everybody dies.  Its just a question of when.

 

One other thing.  This isn't killing people with decades of life expectancy left.  Its killing people with months to maybe a few years.  Because old and sick people tend to die.  Sure you can cite a couple examples that contradict that but they are rare and the exception.

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[Sundancer]

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

Jesus, did you take sales training or something? Always answer a question with a question… too scared to have an opinion I guess. 
 

Two things here 

 

1) no one said , Certainly not me, people were not dying because of Covid 19. The assertion I am making and you clearly cannot follow is the numbers and counting can change based. Even the CDC estimates , key word here is estimates excess deaths “ associated “ with Covid is 75-80 %. Where are the other 20 % coming from? Collateral damage I guess. 

 

I was asking why you're obsessing about death categorization. Early on it was probably a mess. But clearly we have a lot of extra people dying from something. Safe to say the new virus is causing most of it. So the big "with Covid" vs "of Covid" narrative is misplaced. Covid is here and more people are dying because of it. The guy dies in a car crash and tests positive for Covid ends up as a Covid death doesn't add up. If that was happening en masse, the total deaths in the last 18 months would be relatively unchanged from the previous 18 months. 

 

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

 

 

2) why don’t you answer the question why the CDC is making recommendations off a presentation that has a slide in there showing 15% of hospital deaths that were Covid positive in May were fully vaccinated.

 

I did answer already and do so again: Beats me. 

 

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

 

3) also, please explain the PTown study contained in same presentation as the basis for new masking recommendations and why you believe in it’s veracity and why it should be used to guide national Covid policy moving forward. 
 

 

This is the first time you asked me that and though I'm not your organ grinder monkey, I'll answer so you can stop putting words in my mouth and have a dialog. That study is a bull#### sample. 85% male participants on "bear weekend" with people coming from out of town. If you make some assumptions that most of the tons of people who were there were vaccinated, then there's no to little evidence of vaccinated transmission, but just that there were lots of people who were vaccinated in one place mixing with unvaccinated people...so more vaccinated people ended up with Covid. 

 

And I don't think any of it justifies any policy changes of any sort.

 

But I'm willing to keep looking at evidence. The nasal cavity viral load studies in vaccinated persons may or may not translate to viral transmission from vaccinated people. Worth looking into.  

 

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

Until you answer those questions, I will not answer any of yours. 

 

Bully for you. 

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

The basic premise of your argument seems logical but incomplete.  Which if I interpret it correctly is that if COVID has no impact because these deaths would have occurred anyway we wouldn't see a spike in the death rate and count during the pandemic.  But as we see a spike that is evidence COVID is causing additional deaths than would otherwise not have happened.

 

What I think needs to be considered is the variable of time and the concept of regression to mean.  What COVID is doing is pulling forward deaths that would otherwise have occurred or be reported in some future time period.  The additional deaths are being "borrowed" from the future and pulled forward and the reported death rate will be lower than "normal" for those future time periods.  What is going to happen is these additional deaths will be subtracted from future time periods.  Until the stat adjust back to trend.  Which is regression to mean.

 

More or less nobody gets out of life alive and everybody dies.  Its just a question of when.

 

One other thing.  This isn't killing people with decades of life expectancy left.  Its killing people with months to maybe a few years.  Because old and sick people tend to die.  Sure you can cite a couple examples that contradict that but they are rare and the exception.

 

 

 

 

This may well be true. I'm not sure when we would expect to see the snap back in death counts. After a couple years?  

[B-Man]

10 hours ago, 716er said:

 

Liberal utopia Louisiana announced a mask mandate for those ages 5 and older 

 

 

Buffoon.

 

 

Louisiana's Democratic Governor Orders State to Return to Indoor Masking

 

https://redstate.com/joesquire/2021/08/02/louisianas-democratic-governor-orders-state-to-return-to-indoor-masking-n420514

 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

On 12/28/2020 at 2:32 PM, TBBills said:

You are just a fear mongering idiot.

 

 

We told you so.  

 

 

#VaccinePassports

On 12/28/2020 at 12:37 PM, Big Blitz said:

 

 

I'm going to quote the Washington ComPost now:

 

 

People need “immunity passports” if they want the economy reopened.  At least, that’s the crazy idea The Washington Post decided to push.

 

The Post published an insane op-ed advocating for this proposal by Vital Strategies Director of Public Health Law Aaron Schwid and Resolve to Save Lives CEO Tom Frieden.

 

The two authors argued that “as more and more people are vaccinated, it’s time to carefully design a system of ‘immunity passports.’” As the op-ed stated, “These passports would serve as a form of proof of immunity, allowing people who have immunity to engage in some activities others cannot.” A Big Government tracking system that is necessary to shop or travel. I think we all read about that somewhere. 

 

The op-ed concluded on a chilling note that would make George Orwell cringe from his grave:

As vaccination is rolled out and we learn more about immunity after natural infection, providing the option of an immunity passport to those who choose to receive one can increase freedom of movement for passport holders and accelerate broader social and economic recovery. As universal vaccination becomes available, passports will help everyone, not just the lucky few, move from fear to freedom, [emphasis added.]

https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/business/joseph-vazquez/2020/12/28/nuts-washpost-op-ed-wants-immunity-passports-opening

 

 

From 15 days......to 30......to not overrun hospitals......to flatten the curve.....to indefinitely......to till a vaccine......to till we all have immunity passports.

 

Gtfo

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Big Blitz

[Governor]

Oh dear.

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have spoken with a lot of people here in California and many in NY when I was there.  None said they were putting their masks back on. 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

Freaking Trump voters in South America:

 

 

"Meanwhile, Japanese researchers have found South America’s Lambda variant to be more resistant to vaccines, noting its protein mutations make it even more infectious...."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Keep cheering your protocols 

[716er]

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/delta-infections-among-vaccinated-likely-contagious-lambda-variant-shows-vaccine-2021-08-02/

 

The Lambda variant of the coronavirus, first identified in Peru and now spreading in South America, is highly infectious and more resistant to vaccines than the original version of the virus the emerged from Wuhan, China, Japanese researchers have found. In laboratory experiments, they found that three mutations in Lambda's spike protein, known as RSYLTPGD246-253N, 260 L452Q and F490S, help it resist neutralization by vaccine-induced antibodies. Two additional mutations, T76I and L452Q, help make Lambda highly infectious, they found. In a paper posted on Wednesday on bioRxiv ahead of peer review, the researchers warn that with Lambda being labeled a "Variant of Interest" by the World Health Organization, rather than a "Variant of Concern," people might not realize it is a serious ongoing threat. Although it is not clear yet whether this variant is more dangerous than the Delta now threatening populations in many countries, senior researcher Kei Sato of the University of Tokyo believes "Lambda can be a potential threat to the human society."

[Big Blitz]

 

 

Same Florida.  

[All_Pro_Bills]

UK Oxford study on vaccines and Delta.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/english-study-finds-50-60-reduced-risk-covid-double-vaccinated-2021-08-03/

 

 

[716er]

Conservative utopia Arkansas a bit regretful

 

 

[Sundancer]

16 hours ago, 716er said:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/delta-infections-among-vaccinated-likely-contagious-lambda-variant-shows-vaccine-2021-08-02/

 

The Lambda variant of the coronavirus, first identified in Peru and now spreading in South America, is highly infectious and more resistant to vaccines than the original version of the virus the emerged from Wuhan, China, Japanese researchers have found. In laboratory experiments, they found that three mutations in Lambda's spike protein, known as RSYLTPGD246-253N, 260 L452Q and F490S, help it resist neutralization by vaccine-induced antibodies. Two additional mutations, T76I and L452Q, help make Lambda highly infectious, they found. In a paper posted on Wednesday on bioRxiv ahead of peer review, the researchers warn that with Lambda being labeled a "Variant of Interest" by the World Health Organization, rather than a "Variant of Concern," people might not realize it is a serious ongoing threat. Although it is not clear yet whether this variant is more dangerous than the Delta now threatening populations in many countries, senior researcher Kei Sato of the University of Tokyo believes "Lambda can be a potential threat to the human society."

 

Very early lab study that has been contradicted by other data points on Lambda. I'd wait on this. Not that the media will.