The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, Foxx said:

right.

Again this is nothing new.  I’ve used UV lights to disinfect in my lab for over 30 years.  Surfaces are different than cells within the body.

[Foxx]

17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

... That’s not injection.  That’s inhalation.  

disagree, Indy. injection simply means the forceful insertion of a substance under pressure.

[Scraps]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I think a clinical trial, as well as accumulating all the relative data, are extremely important. I also think saving lives NOW is extremely important.  Why can't we do both?

 

Because we don't know what works.

[Foxx]

i tried but there was too much idiocy contained within the previous 20 pages for me to do a complete laborious catch-up. i do however think i covered the high points. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Foxx

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

One or two people vs thousands? M'kay.  Again, you go tell the people who recovered using this treatment they should not have. They need to wait around for you to conduct a clinical trial. I am certain that will go over well.



 

You go tell the ones that died from the side effects.  The door swings both ways.  That’s why Dr. Fauci and his colleagues are so important.

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, Scraps said:

Because we don't know what works.

I certainly hope those here that are arguing against the hydroxychloroquine + zpack treatment do not have to worry about taking it in early-stages. You all can just tell the doc, "Naw man, I'm waiting for the clinical trials to end."

 

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Again this is nothing new.  I’ve used UV lights to disinfect in my lab for over 30 years.  Surfaces are different than cells within the body.

 

And yet, the honest media said it was untrue when Trump first stated it (weeks ago) when talking about the benefit of sunlight and heat as we reach summer. 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Foxx said:

disagree, Indy. injection simply means the forceful insertion of a substance under pressure.

Nope.  Nebulizers are not injection.  It aerosolizes medicines that are then absorbed via inhalation.  I use a nebulizer on occasion for my asthma and it is not delivered under pressure nor is it forcefully inserted.

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

You go tell the ones that died from the side effects.  The door swings both ways.  That’s why Dr. Fauci and his colleagues are so important.

Ummm...

 

[Scraps]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I do! If I am given a treatment that cures me, helps me to breathe, helps me get better, I do not give a flying ***** if it has had clinical trials for this particular treatment.

Thank goodness President Trump signed the "right to try"  EO. Otherwise, a lot of people would have died waiting on clinical trials.

 

Again the trial I linked to showed a higher mortality rate for those on HCQ.  Your endorsing poisoning people again.

[Vark]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

At what stage were they given the treatment? That appears to be a main consideration with its effectiveness.

 

https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-vaughn/2020/04/23/french-doctor-didier-raoult-cites-flaws-scientific-misconduct-in-recent-va-study-on-hydroxychloroquine/

 

Ran across this and thought it might address some of the questions posed.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

And yet, the honest media said it was untrue when Trump first stated it (weeks ago) when talking about the benefit of sunlight and heat as we reach summer. 

I said earlier that the studies talked about yesterday needed to be done to confirm that coronavirus has similar susceptibility as other viruses, which it did.  Use of UV lights as antivirals has a long history.

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, Scraps said:

Again the trial I linked to showed a higher mortality rate for those on HCQ.  Your endorsing poisoning people again.

Sure, that's it. Again, if you or any member of your family contract COVID-19 (and I sincerely hope you and your loved ones do not), please be sure to say "no thank you."

 

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I said earlier that the studies talked about yesterday needed to be done to confirm that coronavirus has similar susceptibility as other viruses, which it did.  Use of UV lights as antivirals has a long history.

 

Which, again, begs the question why the press immediately twisted a long used treatment (and common knowledge) into something else?

 

(Because the media isn't about truth or honesty -- especially on this topic) 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Ummm...

 

The drug causes significant cardiovascular side effects.  According to the limited studies several patients died from these.  Why are you confused?

[Scraps]

11 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

You're continuing to miss the point. 

 

But that's on brand. 

You continue to make any point, but that's on brand.

[Buffalo_Gal]

2 minutes ago, Vark said:

https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-vaughn/2020/04/23/french-doctor-didier-raoult-cites-flaws-scientific-misconduct-in-recent-va-study-on-hydroxychloroquine/

 

Ran across this and thought it might address some of the questions posed.

Ah, the sickest of the sick. Yes, I had heard that before. I "think" that I have been reading that given earlier, it is more effective.

One of the major problems Raoult found was that the HQC and the HQC/Zpak were given after the patients had been intubated. “This is unreasonable at the time of the cytokine storm [after patient is critically ill], as it is unlikely that HCQ alone would be able to control patients at this stage of the disease.”

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The drug causes significant cardiovascular side effects.  According to the limited studies several patients died from these.  Why are you confused?

You told me to go question dead people.

 

[Foxx]

24 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Again this is nothing new.  I’ve used UV lights to disinfect in my lab for over 30 years.  Surfaces are different than cells within the body.

the sun's ultraviolet b rays interact with cholesterol in skin cells, which in turn provide the energy for vitamin D synthesis to occur. vitamin D is essential for optimal health. in some arenas, it is thought that large doses of Vit D are highly effective in fighting COVID-19.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Foxx

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Which, again, begs the question why the press immediately twisted a long used treatment (and common knowledge) into something else?

 

(Because the media isn't about truth or honesty -- especially on this topic) 

Because the president started asking about using it within the body.  The staffer he was talking to was referring to the studies on aerosols or surfaces.  Surface disinfection of viruses with UV is well known.  So maybe if the president would actually be precise we wouldn’t have to have the media try to figure out what he’s talking about.

 

But  of course we’re all supposed to know he was being sarcastic.

[IDBillzFan]

56 minutes ago, Magox said:

I said years ago that Trump supporters would need to get twisted into a pretzel trying to explain his words.

 

The same holds true today.  But it goes back to that Salena Zito article where she discussed his appeal. Foreseeing his 2016 victory when few others in the press did.

 

 

 

Yesterday's goofy thing that Trump said is a perfect example of that.    Reasonable people know that he wasn't advocating for people to ingest disinfectants, he just was pontificating aloud on something goofy.

 

Exactly. Unfortunately there are no reasonable people on the left, and they needed something new to jump on Trump about, so the media gaslights his comments, the drive-bys come in to repeat them as though they finally, at long last, got that evil Trump "this time!"

 

It's embarrassing to watch these discussions.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Foxx said:

the sun's ultraviolet b rays  interact with cholesterol in skin cells, which in turn provide the energy for vitamin D synthesis to occur. Vitamin D is essential for optimal health. in some arenas, it is thought that large doses of Vit D are highly effective in fighting COVID-19.

I understand that, I teach physiology. When you say it is thought, show me data and not just conjecture would be my request.

[Scraps]

6 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Which, again, begs the question why the press immediately twisted a long used treatment (and common knowledge) into something else?

 

(Because the media isn't about truth or honesty -- especially on this topic) 

They didn't have to twist anything.  He sounded like a crackpot.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Exactly. Unfortunately there are no reasonable people on the left, and they needed something new to jump on Trump about, so the media gaslights his comments, the drive-bys come in to repeat them as though they finally, at long last, got that evil Trump "this time!"

 

It's embarrassing to watch these discussions.

So the president says something goofy, today says he was being sarcastic in a pandemic situation that demands seriousness, but it’s the observers that should be embarrassed.

 

I think we should expect more from a president than that.

[Foxx]

31 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Sorry but this is how science and medicine works.  You don’t know if the drug caused them to recover or if they would have recovered on their own.  And in one of the trials I believe a patient or two died from cardiovascular complications.  Maybe they would have recovers from the virus on their own.

 

You are reacting emotionally.  Scientists and physicians can’t do that.  A physician can give this drug off label.  And it may alleviate symptoms or not.  But you cannot say with certainty until proper studies are conducted.

is this argument in regard to hydroxychloroquine (apologies, missed the context)? if so, there have already been clinicals done, decades ago. we already know the drug is relatively safe for consumption and the dosage amounts. it needs to be taken with a Z-pak to open the cell receptors for the hydroxycholoroquine. all of this is readily known, it is not a mystery at this point.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Foxx

[SectionC3]

46 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

It's not spin. It's facts. 

 

I know you have a hard time discerning the difference between the two, as your performance in this thread has proven today.

 

Hoax. 

[Scraps]

4 minutes ago, Foxx said:

is this argument in regard to hydroxychloroquine (apologies, missed the context)? if so, there have already been clinicals done, decades ago. we already know the drug is relatively safe for consumption and the dosage amounts. It needs to be taken with a Z-pak to open the cell receptors for the hydroxycholoroquine. all of this is readily known, it is not a mystery at this point.

It is unproven that the drug is effective on Covid-19 and both of those drugs can lead to heart arrhythmia.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/mayo-clinic-cardiologist-inexcusable-ignore-hydroxychloroquine-side-effects-n1178776

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/family-new-york-woman-blames-hydroxychloroquine-combo-fatal-heart-attack-n1185451

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Scraps

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, Scraps said:

It is unproven that the drug is effective on Covid-19 and both of those drugs can lead to heart arrhythmia.

I believe there is something out there about the treatment being prescribed by a doctor?
 

[Koko78]

18 minutes ago, Vark said:

https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-vaughn/2020/04/23/french-doctor-didier-raoult-cites-flaws-scientific-misconduct-in-recent-va-study-on-hydroxychloroquine/

 

Ran across this and thought it might address some of the questions posed.

 

That level of flawed procedure in their 'study' is disappointing.

[Foxx]

13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Nope.  Nebulizers are not injection.  It aerosolizes medicines that are then absorbed via inhalation.  I use a nebulizer on occasion for my asthma and it is not delivered under pressure nor is it forcefully inserted.

hmm... why do they refer to a spacecraft entering orbit as being injected? come on indy, you know there is more than one colloquial definition of the word.

 

a nebulizer isn't pressurized? really? are you sure what your using is a nebulizer?

[IDBillzFan]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

So the president says something goofy, today says he was being sarcastic in a pandemic situation that demands seriousness, but it’s the observers that should be embarrassed.

 

I think we should expect more from a president than that.

 

You're not going to get me to defend Trump's extemporaneous nature. I genuinely wish he would open with a few comments and let others talk. 

 

But that's not what we have.

 

What I do not understand is this odd sensation from the media that says they will no longer cover Trump's press conferences, and then when none of their followers see the press conferences, the same media parse out statements and the entire leftist world jumps on them completely out of context.

 

Trump is an embarrassing speaker. But you simply need to understand and accept that pretty much everyone in this schittstorm is embarrassing. The left/media's desire to destroy Trump is exhausting, and if he'd pace himself a little more, the rest of the world would see it.

 

 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Foxx said:

is this argument in regard to hydroxychloroquine (apologies, missed the context)? if so, there have already been clinicals done, decades ago. we already know the drug is relatively safe for consumption and the dosage amounts. It needs to be taken with a Z-pak to open the cell receptors for the hydroxycholoroquine. all of this is readily known, it is not a mystery at this point.

The idea as I understand it is to alter endosomal function but it is not clear whether that affects corona virus infectivity.  Also from my understanding it is not clear whether dosages used for know diseases where it has positive effects such as malaria and arthritis are similar.  The cell biology of infectivity differs between parasites, bacteria and viruses.

 

The side effects as you indicate are known, but can be significant.  For example the cardiovascular ones.  Some early observations now suggest clotting disorders in younger infected individuals which will need to be watched.

 

i’d live For studies to show a true positive effect of the drug against Covid-19.  But let’s get real data.

[Scraps]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I believe there is something out there about the treatment being prescribed by a doctor?
 

That doesn't change the fact that the drug is unproven.

[oldmanfan]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Ah, the sickest of the sick. Yes, I had heard that before. I "think" that I have been reading that given earlier, it is more effective.

One of the major problems Raoult found was that the HQC and the HQC/Zpak were given after the patients had been intubated. “This is unreasonable at the time of the cytokine storm [after patient is critically ill], as it is unlikely that HCQ alone would be able to control patients at this stage of the disease.”

You told me to go question dead people.

 

Talk to

their families.

[SectionC3]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I understand that, I teach physiology. When you say it is thought, show me data and not just conjecture would be my request.

 

FYI - based on certain comments made in a different thread, Foxx has been placed on the "hoax" and "fake news" lists.  I'm sure based on your most recent exchange with him that you understand why.  

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I believe there is something out there about the treatment being prescribed by a doctor?
 

Yes.  Doctors can prescribe drugs off label.

[3rdnlng]

41 minutes ago, Scraps said:

According the the VA study I provided a link too, HCQ treated patients had more that twice the mortality rate as non-HCQ patients.  That is a fact.  You are providing anecdotal evidence.  The people you cite may simply have improved on their own.

Seriously, you're going to repeat that crap? Who do you think gets the HCQ treatment, people who have very little symptoms or those that are seriously ill? 

[Buffalo_Gal]

3 minutes ago, Scraps said:

That doesn't change the fact that the drug is unproven.

Again, if you, or your family contract COVID-19 (and again I say I sincerely hope neither you, nor they, do) simply say, "No thank you. We are waiting for clinical trials on how this works on COVID-19."  Do not tell me what me and my family can take when faced with this choice.



 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal

[SectionC3]

 

 

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Again, if you, or your family contract COVID-19 (and again I say I sincerely hope neither you, nor they, do) simply say, "No thank you. We are waiting for clinical trials on how this works on COVID-19."  Do not tell me, what me and my family can take when faced with this choice.



 

 

You might want to take that up with the FDA. 

[Foxx]

13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I understand that, I teach physiology. When you say it is thought, show me data and not just conjecture would be my request.

are you going to argue that vitamin D in the body is not required for optimal health?

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

You're not going to get me to defend Trump's extemporaneous nature. I genuinely wish he would open with a few comments and let others talk. 

 

But that's not what we have.

 

What I do not understand is this odd sensation from the media that says they will no longer cover Trump's press conferences, and then when none of their followers see the press conferences, the same media parse out statements and the entire leftist world jumps on them completely out of context.

 

Trump is an embarrassing speaker. But you simply need to understand and accept that pretty much everyone in this schittstorm is embarrassing. The left/media's desire to destroy Trump is exhausting, and if he'd pace himself a little more, the rest of the world would see it.

 

 

I am independent politically.  I see your point, I also saw the exact opposite in the previous administration with media from the right.  We need better right now.  From everyone.