Why are the the late 80's Giants D's never mentioned among the best?

[NewEra]

14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Among the best.   Never seen them in a top 5 list. Maybe a few 10's.

 

 

 

The responses that claimed that they are not considered one of the best because Taylor used coke were the nonsense I have been responding to since.  Pure nonsense.  

 

MLB isn't Football HOF.  They could not be more different in how the voters viewed PED and substance abuse so that's a point not worth making

one google search, front page, 4 articles down

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000636900/article/1985-bears-2015-broncos-among-five-best-defenses-of-all-time%3fnetworkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%3Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%3Dstory&env&pageKeyValues=prtnr%3Dthe-brandt-report%3bteam%3Dsea%3bteam%3Dpit%3bteam%3Dchi%3bconf%3Dnfc%3bconf%3Dafc%3bdvsn%3Dncw%3bdvsn%3Dacn%3bdvsn%3Dncn&p.ct=The%2bBrandt%2bReport&p.adsm=false&p.tcm=%23000&p.bgc1m=%23EAEAEA&sr=amp
6 articles down

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lineups.com/articles/top-25-nfl-defenses-all-time/%3famp
 

No reason to continue to waste time.

 

like I said.  To actually respond to your OP.  They are top 10 in many conversations.  Top 5 in some.  The best in none, because they aren’t the best.  Seems as if you just haven’t had that many conversations about the top defenses or you’re having the conversations with the wrong people.  Now you want to turn the barrel of the thread and aim it at my take because the purpose of the thread doesn’t make much sense at all
 

you might believe that it’s ok to take performance enhancing drugs “just because everyone else is taking them”.......even though “everyone” wasn’t taking them.  Not everyone else was.  While the Nfl HoF voters are ok with voting him in (as I am too.  He absolutely belongs there, as does Bonds etc) he’s performance carries an asterisk according to many of my friends.  Most of them Giants fans

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

one google search, front page, 4 articles down

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000636900/article/1985-bears-2015-broncos-among-five-best-defenses-of-all-time%3fnetworkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%3Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%3Dstory&env&pageKeyValues=prtnr%3Dthe-brandt-report%3bteam%3Dsea%3bteam%3Dpit%3bteam%3Dchi%3bconf%3Dnfc%3bconf%3Dafc%3bdvsn%3Dncw%3bdvsn%3Dacn%3bdvsn%3Dncn&p.ct=The%2bBrandt%2bReport&p.adsm=false&p.tcm=%23000&p.bgc1m=%23EAEAEA&sr=amp
6 articles down

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lineups.com/articles/top-25-nfl-defenses-all-time/%3famp
 

No reason to continue to waste time.

 

like I said.  To actually respond to your OP.  They are top 10 in many conversations.  Top 5 in some.  The best in none, because they aren’t the best.  Seems as if you just haven’t had that many conversations about the top defenses or you’re having the conversations with the wrong people.  Now you want to turn the barrel of the thread and aim it at my take because the purpose of the thread doesn’t make much sense at all
 

you might believe that it’s ok to take performance enhancing drugs “just because everyone else is taking them”.......even though “everyone” wasn’t taking them.  Not everyone else was.  While the Nfl HoF voters are ok with voting him in (as I am too.  He absolutely belongs there, as does Bonds etc) he’s performance carries an asterisk according to many of my friends.  Most of them Giants fans

 

 

Nowhere in any post did I even suggest this--but I can see why you are running with it.  What I said many times is that anyone suggesting (several did here) that they would be left any list of top Defenses because Taylor played high is out of touch with reality.   The media/press didn't care.  No one cared.  Fans figured, if he's good, he's good.  If he gets busted and suspended....see you in 4 weeks.

 

No Giants fan would ever say: "yeah, those Giants were a great team, but I'm saying that with an (air quotes) asterisk, because Taylor used cocaine".   Come on!

[Momma Pecoraro]

LT was invisible in XXV. Wolford must have been doing coke too.

 

wow.

[NewEra]

43 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Nowhere in any post did I even suggest this--but I can see why you are running with it.  What I said many times is that anyone suggesting (several did here) that they would be left any list of top Defenses because Taylor played high is out of touch with reality.   The media/press didn't care.  No one cared.  Fans figured, if he's good, he's good.  If he gets busted and suspended....see you in 4 weeks.

 

No Giants fan would ever say: "yeah, those Giants were a great team, but I'm saying that with an (air quotes) asterisk, because Taylor used cocaine".   Come on!

No one cares/d yet some people don’t even have them in the top 20 defenses.  When a writer leaves a team off their list, do they tell the readers why they left that team off the list?  

[Bill from NYC]

On 12/26/2019 at 9:52 PM, row_33 said:

Baseball ignored guys suddenly putting on 40 pounds of muscle mass and their hat sizes going to 9  5/8

Jose Canseco gained 45 pounds, kept a 32 waist, and got faster.

 

I was at a game where he didn't get around on a pitch and got under it. The RF barely moved because it looked and sounded like a pop fly. The ball wound up being a mile high and over the right field wall in Yankee Stadium.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Bill from NYC

[BuffaloSol]

22 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Thanks for clearing that up for the guy who has been an active participant here for over a decade.

Yeah, I don't care how long he has been on here not sure why anyone would think that mattered?

 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

No one cares/d yet some people don’t even have them in the top 20 defenses.  When a writer leaves a team off their list, do they tell the readers why they left that team off the list?  

 

The press a the time wrote about it.  The public collectively yawned (mid 80's?  pro athletes doing coke??).  Then, when the time came, they couldn't vote Taylor into the HOF fast enough. 

[NewEra]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The press a the time wrote about it.  The public collectively yawned (mid 80's?  pro athletes doing coke??).  Then, when the time came, they couldn't vote Taylor into the HOF fast enough. 

He absolutely deserves to be a first ballot HoFer.   Just like Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens (And all of them with an asterisk, imo).

 

Cheating just comes more into play when discussing “the best of all time” as opposed to the HoF

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He absolutely deserves to be a first ballot HoFer.   Just like Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens (And all of them with an asterisk, imo).

 

Cheating just comes more into play when discussing “the best of all time” as opposed to the HoF

 

Any "writer" leaving them of the list would have to leave off every team prior to 1987-89, if this is what his/her criteria are for exclusion (drugs/PED).  Singling out those Giants would be laughable.

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, BuffaloSol said:

Yeah, I don't care how long he has been on here not sure why anyone would think that mattered?

 

Either you really think he hasn't figured out what type of board it is that he has frequented for 10 years to the tune of 28,000 posts or you're a douche who thinks they are the arbiter of which topics we are allowed to discuss.  No matter where the truth lies, you should consult @DC Tom for a quick IQ test.

[Gugny]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Jose Canseco gained 45 pounds, kept a 32 waist, and got faster.

 

I was at a game where he didn't get around on a pitch and got under it. The RF barely moved because he looked and sounded like a pop fly. The ball wound up being a mile high and over the right field wall in Yankee Stadium.

 

So it really was a pop fly, then.  

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Any "writer" leaving them of the list would have to leave off every team prior to 1987-89, if this is what his/her criteria are for exclusion (drugs/PED).  Singling out those Giants would be laughable.

Which other teams were unquestionably led by the poster child for coke in the nfl?  He was the face of that defense.  He was the face of coke use in the nfl.
 

when’s the last time anyone ever talked about how great dexter Manley was talked about?  He was pretty dam good.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Which other teams were unquestionably led by the poster child for coke in the nfl?  He was the face of that defense.  He was the face of coke use in the nfl.
 

when’s the last time anyone ever talked about how great dexter Manley was talked about?  He was pretty dam good.

 

How many wrote a book----not after retiring, but while still playing---telling everyone how high he was on and off the field?

 

Taylor tested positive twice, suspended for 30 days.  After suspension (1988), he never tested positive again.  

 

Dexter Manley tested positive 4 times and was banned form the league.  If he was surrounded by the massive talent that Taylor had on those Giants D's, he would not be an NFL afterthought now...

 

 

[DC Tom]

25 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Either you really think he hasn't figured out what type of board it is that he has frequented for 10 years to the tune of 28,000 posts or you're a douche who thinks they are the arbiter of which topics we are allowed to discuss.  No matter where the truth lies, you should consult @DC Tom for a quick IQ test.

 

I was ready to call him an idiot for misspelling "forum."

 

On 12/26/2019 at 10:10 AM, BuffaloSol said:

This is a Bills form bud.

 

You're a ***** idiot.  Go away.

[NewEra]

22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

How many wrote a book----not after retiring, but while still playing---telling everyone how high he was on and off the field?

 

Taylor tested positive twice, suspended for 30 days.  After suspension (1988), he never tested positive again.  

 

Dexter Manley tested positive 4 times and was banned form the league.  If he was surrounded by the massive talent that Taylor had on those Giants D's, he would not be an NFL afterthought now...

 

 

Manley played on great defenses and won Super Bowls.  No one talks about him now because he was suspended 4 times for cocaine.  If we was suspended once, he would be held in a higher regard. What’s the difference between LT the cheater and Manley the cheater?  LT was a better cheater and wasn’t caught as much.  He keeps his standing in the hierarchy.  Dexter sucked as a cheater and is now an afterthought.  
 

manley is a great example of the “in the know” nfl people holding cocaine use against a player.  His career ended due to his cocaine use but he was a dominant pass rusher.  The 2nd best in the league to LT for a few seasons according to some

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Manley played on great defenses and won Super Bowls.  No one talks about him now because he was suspended 4 times for cocaine.  If we was suspended once, he would be held in a higher regard. What’s the difference between LT the cheater and Manley the cheater?  LT was a better cheater and wasn’t caught as much.  He keeps his standing in the hierarchy.  Dexter sucked as a cheater and is now an afterthought.  
 

manley is a great example of the “in the know” nfl people holding cocaine use against a player.  His career ended due to his cocaine use but he was a dominant pass rusher.  The 2nd best in the league to LT for a few seasons according to some

So Taylor was known at the time as the worst of the cocaine abusers, yet the nfl people in the know made Manley an afterthought and Taylor a 9 time All Pro and first ballot HOFer....

 

Uh....

 

AND (!), all if this somehow detracts from all of the contributions of a star studded Defense (the other guys on the team)...

 

you’ve lost me in a hopeless tangle of pretzel logic

 

 

[NewEra]

21 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

So Taylor was known at the time as the worst of the cocaine abusers, yet the nfl people in the know made Manley an afterthought and Taylor a 9 time All Pro and first ballot HOFer....

 

Uh....

 

AND (!), all if this somehow detracts from all of the contributions of a star studded Defense (the other guys on the team)...

 

you’ve lost me in a hopeless tangle of pretzel logic

 

 

Yes.  I give up.  
 

[4merper4mer]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

So Taylor was known at the time as the worst of the cocaine abusers, yet the nfl people in the know made Manley an afterthought and Taylor a 9 time All Pro and first ballot HOFer....

 

Uh....

 

AND (!), all if this somehow detracts from all of the contributions of a star studded Defense (the other guys on the team)...

 

you’ve lost me in a hopeless tangle of pretzel logic

 

 

The real reason they don't get the proper credit is that it's a conspiracy against your hero Bellichick.

[BuffaloSol]

3 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

I was ready to call him an idiot for misspelling "forum."

 

 

You're a ***** idiot.  Go away.

That would have been hilarious if you made fun of me for mispelling forum. It's even funnier that the tough guy routine was your second option. Hey guess what?? Not everyone is going to to agree with you on this "FORM" bucko. 

3 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Either you really think he hasn't figured out what type of board it is that he has frequented for 10 years to the tune of 28,000 posts or you're a douche who thinks they are the arbiter of which topics we are allowed to discuss.  No matter where the truth lies, you should consult @DC Tom for a quick IQ test.

So I am a douche because I think a guy on here that posted a lot for 10 years is a miserable ass that apparently needs his groupies to stick up for him? Does he throw you a signed drumstick every once in awhile?

[DC Tom]

6 minutes ago, BuffaloSol said:

That would have been hilarious if you made fun of me for mispelling forum. It's even funnier that the tough guy routine was your second option. Hey guess what?? Not everyone is going to to agree with you on this "FORM" bucko. 

So I am a douche because I think a guy on here that posted a lot for 10 years is a miserable ass that apparently needs his groupies to stick up for him? Does he throw you a signed drumstick every once in awhile?

 

No, you're a douche because you act like you know what's going on her, but you're completely clueless.  You idiot. 

[BuffaloSol]

4 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

No, you're a douche because you act like you know what's going on her, but you're completely clueless.  You idiot. 

Sounds like something a groupie would say. Thanks for your insight into the way of the scuffed knees though, lol. 

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, BuffaloSol said:

Sounds like something a groupie would say. Thanks for your insight into the way of the scuffed knees though, lol. 

 

  Yeah, you're really living down that "idiot" label.  Good luck to you, boy.

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, BuffaloSol said:

That would have been hilarious if you made fun of me for mispelling forum. It's even funnier that the tough guy routine was your second option. Hey guess what?? Not everyone is going to to agree with you on this "FORM" bucko. 

So I am a douche because I think a guy on here that posted a lot for 10 years is a miserable ass that apparently needs his groupies to stick up for him? Does he throw you a signed drumstick every once in awhile?

 

Wait....I have groupies??!

 

 

[Rico]

On 12/26/2019 at 8:09 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Among the best.   Never seen them in a top 5 list. Maybe a few 10's.

 

 

 

The responses that claimed that they are not considered one of the best because Taylor used coke were the nonsense I have been responding to since.  Pure nonsense.  

 

MLB isn't Football HOF.  They could not be more different in how the voters viewed PED and substance abuse so that's a point not worth making

Yeah, I have never heard anyone put down the Giants D because Taylor used coke until I read this thread.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, Rico said:

Yeah, I have never heard anyone put down the Giants D because Taylor used coke until I read this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

You must not have any friends who are Giants fans AND really honest with themselves.

[BuffaloSol]

15 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

  Yeah, you're really living down that "idiot" label.  Good luck to you, boy.

You Millennials are so sensitive, kiddo.

[BuffaloSol]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Wait....I have groupies??!

 

 

Chill out, they're just online groupies.

[Mr. WEO]

20 minutes ago, BuffaloSol said:

Chill out, they're just online groupies.

 

Groupies can come in many "FORM"s.

[DC Tom]

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Wait....I have groupies??!

 

 

 

I always thought you were my groupie.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

I always thought you were my groupie.

 

 

Well, who isn't?  (minus the idiots).