Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 44 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: Common, voice your objections to an incentive laden deal? What is the possible downside? I was gonna say “nah” but OK, I’ll put it out there 1x. Have you ever lived or worked on a team with a real “energy vampire”? I don’t think AB was that guy when he came into the league, which is how he had success. But that’s fundamentally what I think he is now. He shows all the signs: lots of drama, failure to take accountability, downplay others problems and play up their own. Usually people like this are tremendously talented and have tremendous potential to contribute, and often they manage to avoid doing anything that’s too explicitly a would be a clear “abort! abort!” red flag to cut ties. Often people don’t realize just how draining and toxic the effect is until these people leave. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 59 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: I’m sure there’s a lot, off the top of my head I guess.. The old dream team philly Eagles.. The 2018 Steelers. 2019 browns. 3 extremely talented teams. Media jumped on them and they crumbled with the non stop pressure. ‘18 Steelers specifically with bell sitting out. Every practice, every game, every reporter wanted to know how the team feels about bell. Anyone who responded was on ESPN all day the next day. Every game, would they be winning more with Bell etc etc.. Teams don’t want all that extra attention. Players and coaches don’t want the hassle of discussing one player non stop and every little aspect of him. Is he in shape? Is he practicing hard? Does he have a rapport with the quarterback? Look what the media did to the Raiders on top of them being on hard knocks as well. Gruden and Mayock has to discuss browns frost bitten feet everyday for weeks. Then the barrage of releasing him. I get it, brown has game changing elite talent. He’s in an upper category from Tebow and Kaep, but to me it’s the same thing. Teams wouldn’t touch those guys because of the media that follows them. If you’re New England. Or New Orleans or another established program the risk isn’t as bad. But for a team building and trying to establish themselves it’s a very unneeded distraction. For the most part this entire topic is probably completely pointless, he’s still being investigated for the sexual whatever he is accused of, which was considered a probable suspension already. Now he’s facing new criminal charges over the battery or whatever his actual charges are over the moving company. It’s extremely possible the league suspends him longer than a year. And they won’t rule on it until a team signs him i believe. So he’d be looking at being signed, then put on the exempt list or whatever while they finish investigating, then a crazy punishment after. The NFL doesn’t want him back after what he has done the last year. They have plenty of stars they don’t need him or the negative press either. The 2019 Browns destroyed themselves. To place blame on the media is insulting. The "dream team"concept doesn't work in football, but, it's a catchy name. The 2018 Steelers made a decision and they lived with it. The media had nothing to do with their record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 https://heavy.com/sports/2020/02/raiders-antonio-brown-jon-gruden-conversation/ “That’s lower-class football,” Brown said. “I don’t support XFL, man. If it ain’t the highest level, man, I’m not playing … I don’t want to go chill with 60 dudes every day and guys jealous ’cause AB getting all the touchdowns, AB getting all the girls they wishing about, you know?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said: Exactly what I said - he comes in suspended and acts up never even getting on the field - airing dirty laundry - turning players and coaches. You get rid of him and he acts even worse bad talking everything about your team - especially your young QB. Now you have media storm surrounding the team. It would be one thing if he cared and really wanted to play, but it seems obvious that he doesn’t care - see his treatment of the team and management in Oakland. He wants the money and doesn’t want to do anything to get it. He is working lawsuits against 2 NFL teams already - let’s add ours to the list. Additionally - let’s say Beane loses his mind and does this - now you have your #1 WR - suspended for most likely at least half the season - although my guess is with 2 sexual assault cases pending, multiple failure to pay lawsuits, and a full on assault case he was arrested for - it could be longer. Now you have signed him - does that prevent you from making a move to improve the WR position more. Then like Oakland and NE found out - he screws your team and now you have no #1 WR and you wasted time and resources on nothing. Plus you now have a potential rookie coming in and getting to learn and see the Diva act - it could create issues with development. The team places a huge emphasis on veteran leaders teaching the young players how to do things right - why would you want the WR room - the easiest room to go insane (Diva’s) - to have the king Diva present showing all the wrong ways of doing things. What I see is a player/contract with little upside (he couldn’t even make it work in NE and blasted the owners and team when he left) and lots of potential to destroy what you are building - especially at QB. Ok, little upside. 41 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I was gonna say “nah” but OK, I’ll put it out there 1x. Have you ever lived or worked on a team with a real “energy vampire”? I don’t think AB was that guy when he came into the league, which is how he had success. But that’s fundamentally what I think he is now. He shows all the signs: lots of drama, failure to take accountability, downplay others problems and play up their own. Usually people like this are tremendously talented and have tremendous potential to contribute, and often they manage to avoid doing anything that’s too explicitly a would be a clear “abort! abort!” red flag to cut ties. Often people don’t realize just how draining and toxic the effect is until these people leave. If so, you cut him. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 55 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I was gonna say “nah” but OK, I’ll put it out there 1x. Have you ever lived or worked on a team with a real “energy vampire”? I don’t think AB was that guy when he came into the league, which is how he had success. But that’s fundamentally what I think he is now. He shows all the signs: lots of drama, failure to take accountability, downplay others problems and play up their own. Usually people like this are tremendously talented and have tremendous potential to contribute, and often they manage to avoid doing anything that’s too explicitly a would be a clear “abort! abort!” red flag to cut ties. Often people don’t realize just how draining and toxic the effect is until these people leave. You forgot the kinda guy that throws gummy penises to cops and chocolate penises to media members. #teamplayer 17 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: https://heavy.com/sports/2020/02/raiders-antonio-brown-jon-gruden-conversation/ “That’s lower-class football,” Brown said. “I don’t support XFL, man. If it ain’t the highest level, man, I’m not playing … I don’t want to go chill with 60 dudes every day and guys jealous ’cause AB getting all the touchdowns, AB getting all the girls they wishing about, you know?” Webster’s Dictionary definition of “team player”?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 30 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: You forgot the kinda guy that throws gummy penises to cops and chocolate penises to media members. #teamplayer Webster’s Dictionary definition of “team player”?? What if one or two dudes is homosexual? They won't be wishing they had the girls AB had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markaf431 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 I don't see any potential upside to bringing this guy in. As mentioned, suspension for one, he doesn't truly seem to be apologetic for ANYTHING, he just wants back in the league, he doesn't play well with others, and I know some have said oh well cut him if he acts up. Why invite the devil into the room in the first place? You've built your foundation, your bedrock for how you want this organization to be. You KNOW this guy has shown he's a cancer, the risk/reward is just not there for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 The fact that all y'all have so little regard for McDermott's abilities as a HC and leader of men is disheartening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 8 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: Ok, little upside. If so, you cut him. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Yes - you cut him - nothing ventured - nothing gained, but what they always forget to mentioned is what do you lose. You cut him and you gain nothing, but you lose the ability to bring in someone that will help the team for 16 games. You miss out on players that will actually bring gain. You end up like the Pats that were desperate for a WR so they bring him in and trade away someone that would have given them more. Then they are also forced to trade for a guy that is ok, but doesn’t give them enough. Who knows what that venture cost the Pats in both money and for the season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: The fact that all y'all have so little regard for McDermott's abilities as a HC and leader of men is disheartening. Yes because even Belicheck and Brady - 2 GOATS - were able to keep him in control. I mean it is not like he called out the owner or anything in NE. Let’s turn this around - please tell us exactly what you think his “incentive laden” contract - that AB will want to play for - will look like (remember that was a big part of the issue in Pittsburgh as he wanted big guaranteed money)? Also what are your expectations for an AB suspension for next season if he signs? Finally, what realistically do you expect from AB if he is signed by the Bills at his age - having not really played in over a year. Do you really think the Bills or JA use him as a true #1 or much like the gameplans this year - is JA to find the open guy making AB very frustrated. What kind of numbers do you see and do those numbers make AB happy or does he constantly call out JA as not Big Ben? Edited February 17, 2020 by Rochesterfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: Yes because even Belicheck and Brady - 2 GOATS - were able to keep him in control. I mean it is not like he called out the owner or anything in NE. Let’s turn this around - please tell us exactly what you think his “incentive laden” contract - that AB will want to play for - will look like How was NE irreparably harmed by signing Brown? They cut him, they moved on. There would be even less scrutiny here because of added history. i don’t construct NFL contracts. You either understand what a prove it deal is, or, in your case, you do not. As for what he will play for? I have no idea, but, I trust our GM to construct a suitable deal. Edited February 17, 2020 by Cripple Creek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 8 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: The fact that all y'all have so little regard for McDermott's abilities as a HC and leader of men is disheartening. Some players don't want to be lead and I think AB is one of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 58 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: Some players don't want to be lead and I think AB is one of them. Everyone keeps talking about the effect Brown would have on his teammates. That’s what I’m talking about. I trust McDermott to hold the room. All y’all are giving Brown waaaaay too much credit here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 57 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: How was NE irreparably harmed by signing Brown? They cut him, they moved on. There would be even less scrutiny here because of added history. i don’t construct NFL contracts. You either understand what a prove it deal is, or, in your case, you do not. As for what he will play for? I have no idea, but, I trust our GM to construct a suitable deal. Well NE signed him and traded away another veteran WR and then after cutting him their QB complained so much about a lack of talent that they had to trade for another WR. So to me it cost them going after a better WR at a time they needed one and now financially they are still on the hook for money owed to AB even though he only played 1 game. I also get a prove it deal - I am asking you what makes you think he will accept a prove it deal and how much are you willing to pay. You said it is low risk, potential reward, but you are talking about a player that wanted out of Pittsburgh because they did not give him enough guaranteed money. He supposedly refused Buffalo when we would not up his guaranteed money. He accepted Oakland with huge guarantees and is now suing them for non-payment after being cut. He got big guaranteed money from NE - played a week and was cut and now has a lawsuit against NE also. I do not think you understand what he is going to want. I do not think you are getting him on a “prove it” deal without guaranteed money. So the question remains how much are you willing to spend on him because I am pretty sure our GM knows exactly what he is worth and it is nothing. You also left out what/how long do you think his suspension will be for? You also gave nothing on your expectations or what you think will happen as he complains about JA and how that impacts the team. As for NE - prior to AB and with AB they were the heavy favorites to return to and win another Super Bowl. They fell way short at the end and their leader and QB - Brady was complaining about not having AB and a lack of talent - so I think he had a pretty negative impact on the team and perhaps is part of the reason if Brady decides to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: Everyone keeps talking about the effect Brown would have on his teammates. That’s what I’m talking about. I trust McDermott to hold the room. All y’all are giving Brown waaaaay too much credit here. It happens in all walks of life, like in my job that people are supposed to follow certain protocols yet not everyone follows them despite supervisors best efforts, it's a big part of reason I won't go into management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: I do not think you understand what he is going to want. I do not think you are getting him on a “prove it” deal without guaranteed money. So the question remains how much are you willing to spend on him because I am pretty sure our GM knows exactly what he is worth and it is nothing. You also left out what/how long do you think his suspension will be for? You also gave nothing on your expectations or what you think will happen as he complains about JA and how that impacts the team. I don’t think that there is a team stupid/desperate enough to sign him to anything but a prove it deal. His chances of coming here are virtually nil, but he does have the ability to help the team on the field. NE traded a WR? We should be so lucky that anyone would want one we deem expendable. I don’t care how long he is suspended, 8 games would be perfect. He can sit back “paycheckless” and reflect. When he’s eligible, he plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 42 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: I don’t think that there is a team stupid/desperate enough to sign him to anything but a prove it deal. His chances of coming here are virtually nil, but he does have the ability to help the team on the field. NE traded a WR? We should be so lucky that anyone would want one we deem expendable. I don’t care how long he is suspended, 8 games would be perfect. He can sit back “paycheckless” and reflect. When he’s eligible, he plays. Do you really think he’s going to reflect? He’s been paycheckless for awhile and still is doing stupid ****. He’s refusing to “get it”. He’s still making excuses. The Saints brought him in for a workout. This is potentially could be his last shot...he’s hanging by a thread. You would think he would comply with anything they say. He was told not to bring an entourage and he brought an entourage. Then writes a rap song about it? McDermott and Beane can set any rules they want, AB will break it. He’s going to bring baggage and unwanted attention. He will never be relied on. 3 teams threw his ass out in 9 months. He’s too much of a headache to have on your team, why even consider it? He can’t be trusted. He’s a ticking time bomb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 22 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Do you really think he’s going to reflect? He’s been paycheckless for awhile and still is doing stupid ****. He’s refusing to “get it”. He’s still making excuses. The Saints brought him in for a workout. This is potentially could be his last shot...he’s hanging by a thread. You would think he would comply with anything they say. He was told not to bring an entourage and he brought an entourage. Then writes a rap song about it? McDermott and Beane can set any rules they want, AB will break it. He’s going to bring baggage and unwanted attention. He will never be relied on. 3 teams threw his ass out in 9 months. He’s too much of a headache to have on your team, why even consider it? He can’t be trusted. He’s a ticking time bomb. Then it's a no brainer. Sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 23 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Do you really think he’s going to reflect? He’s been paycheckless for awhile and still is doing stupid ****. He’s refusing to “get it”. He’s still making excuses. The Saints brought him in for a workout. This is potentially could be his last shot...he’s hanging by a thread. You would think he would comply with anything they say. He was told not to bring an entourage and he brought an entourage. Then writes a rap song about it? McDermott and Beane can set any rules they want, AB will break it. He’s going to bring baggage and unwanted attention. He will never be relied on. 3 teams threw his ass out in 9 months. He’s too much of a headache to have on your team, why even consider it? He can’t be trusted. He’s a ticking time bomb. So, it sounds like you’re on the fence here. “You can’t fix stupid”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 AB is a certifiable nut case.....the chances of him not being a distraction is less than 1% its hard to believe...but i think colin kaepernick has a better chance of playing in 2020......lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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