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Mopreme

Buccaneers waived CB Vernon Hargreaves

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Former first round pick. I understand that he has not played well but perhaps an upgrade over Levi Wallace?  Maybe change of scenery does the trick? 

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Just now, Mopreme said:

Former first round pick. I understand that he has not played well but perhaps an upgrade over Levi Wallace?  Maybe change of scenery does the trick? 

 

I would claim him, and there are 4-5 players that can walk to make the room for him

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A high level potential CB won’t make it past the bottom 10 on waiver priority. No way do the Bills have a shot.

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Just now, CEN-CAL17 said:

A high level potential CB won’t make it past the bottom 10 on waiver priority. No way do the Bills have a shot.

 

Probably don't, But still put in the paperwork.  Just like people though with Gordon and yet we didn't claim him either and Seattle got a top end 50/50 catch WR (man we could use one of them)

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8 minutes ago, Mopreme said:

Former first round pick. I understand that he has not played well but perhaps an upgrade over Levi Wallace?  Maybe change of scenery does the trick? 

 

I think pretty much anyone would be an upgrade over Wallace at this point. The question would be, how good is Hargreaves against the run? Since he wouldn't be expected to be a #1 corner here.

 

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Just now, Luka said:

 

I think pretty much anyone would be an upgrade over Wallace at this point. The question would be, how good is Hargreaves against the run? Since he wouldn't be expected to be a #1 corner here.

 

ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS

 Premier, quick twitch athlete with explosion pulsing through his hips and feet. Instant click-­and-­close action to explode forward and attack the throw. Vertical springs to go up and over receivers at the high point. Smooth, controlled backpedal with ability to weave and mirror route progressions. Plays with outstanding body control and balance. Feet are electric. Can overwhelm lesser opponents across from him. Instinctive and urgent in his play. Excels from press, off or zone coverage. Fiery competitor with a strong desire to own the pass. Has quick, soft hands. Posted 38 passes defensed and 10 interceptions over last three years. Could see early kick or punt return action. Unwilling to stay blocked and doesn't hesitate for one moment in run support and against wide receiver screens. Chest­-up tackler who runs through his target.

WEAKNESSES

 Lean, wiry frame. Aggressive nature allows teams to bait him with double moves. Quicker than fast and doesn't have closing speed to make mistakes underneath and still recover on top. Allowed 16.5 yards per completion this season. Scouts worry about his height outside. Big receivers will pose a challenge on the next level. Had his two worst games of the season in SEC Championship game against Alabama and Citrus Bowl against Michigan. Willingness to throw body around in run support could cause him to break down.

DRAFT PROJECTION

 Round 1

NFL COMPARISON

 Joe Haden

BOTTOM LINE

 While scouts have voiced some concerns about Hargreaves' size and recovery speed, you won't find anyone who doesn't admire his competitiveness and consistency of production. Hargreaves has a level of suddenness and explosiveness in his movements that should always have him near the ball. With top-notch ball skills and exceptional instincts that drew praise from Alabama's Nick Saban, Hargreaves possesses the football makeup to become a Pro Bowl cornerback.

Edited by MAJBobby

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3 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

I think pretty much anyone would be an upgrade over Wallace at this point. The question would be, how good is Hargreaves against the run? Since he wouldn't be expected to be a #1 corner here.

 

 

This is said every year about someone, and it is never true. 

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2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS

 Premier, quick twitch athlete with explosion pulsing through his hips and feet. Instant click-­and-­close action to explode forward and attack the throw. Vertical springs to go up and over receivers at the high point. Smooth, controlled backpedal with ability to weave and mirror route progressions. Plays with outstanding body control and balance. Feet are electric. Can overwhelm lesser opponents across from him. Instinctive and urgent in his play. Excels from press, off or zone coverage. Fiery competitor with a strong desire to own the pass. Has quick, soft hands. Posted 38 passes defensed and 10 interceptions over last three years. Could see early kick or punt return action. Unwilling to stay blocked and doesn't hesitate for one moment in run support and against wide receiver screens. Chest­-up tackler who runs through his target.

WEAKNESSES

 Lean, wiry frame. Aggressive nature allows teams to bait him with double moves. Quicker than fast and doesn't have closing speed to make mistakes underneath and still recover on top. Allowed 16.5 yards per completion this season. Scouts worry about his height outside. Big receivers will pose a challenge on the next level. Had his two worst games of the season in SEC Championship game against Alabama and Citrus Bowl against Michigan. Willingness to throw body around in run support could cause him to break down.

DRAFT PROJECTION

 Round 1

NFL COMPARISON

 Joe Haden

BOTTOM LINE

 While scouts have voiced some concerns about Hargreaves' size and recovery speed, you won't find anyone who doesn't admire his competitiveness and consistency of production. Hargreaves has a level of suddenness and explosiveness in his movements that should always have him near the ball. With top-notch ball skills and exceptional instincts that drew praise from Alabama's Nick Saban, Hargreaves possesses the football makeup to become a Pro Bowl cornerback.

 

He was excellent for the Gators but I meant more over the last few seasons in the NFL. I'm surprised to see he was cut for "lack of hustle." Attitude problem or unable to perform at this level?

Edited by Luka

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Just now, Luka said:

 

He was excellent for the Gators but I meant more over the last few seasons in the NFL. I'm surprised to see he was cut for "lack of hustle." Attitude problem or unable to perform at this level?

 

There was a Work ethic Problem.  Same things that were said about Fitzpatrick out of MIA.  Get him in a different city and now look at Fitzpatrick.  There is ZERO Risk and a HIGH reward (Like Gordon) they SHOULD put a claim in for him.

 

Remember TB picked up his 5th year Option for a Reason.

Edited by MAJBobby
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Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

There was a Work ethic Problem.  Same things that were said about Fitzpatrick out of MIA.  Get him in a different city and now look at Fitzpatrick.  There is ZERO Risk and a HIGH reward (Like Gordon) they SHOULD put a claim in for him.

 

Remember TB picked up his 5th year Option for a Reason.

 

The Bills should definitely have a claim in, just like they should have for Josh. Worries me that Beane has started to sit back and not do anything. This roster is far from complete.

 

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Just now, Luka said:

 

The Bills should definitely have a claim in, just like they should have for Josh. Worries me that Beane has started to sit back and not do anything. This roster is far from complete.

 

 

He is doing what McConsrvative wants him to do.  See that is the problem hiring the GM after the HC and having BOTH report directly to Ownership.  If there is a disagreement who wins?  McConservative does

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2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

He is doing what McConsrvative wants him to do.  See that is the problem hiring the GM after the HC and having BOTH report directly to Ownership.  If there is a disagreement who wins?  McConservative does

 

Wich is crazy to me. Wasn't that the situation with Whaley and Marrone also? Not a sustainable organization model. GM and scouts gotta be able to have more input than that.

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1 minute ago, Luka said:

 

Wich is crazy to me. Wasn't that the situation with Whaley and Marrone also? Not a sustainable organization model. GM and scouts gotta be able to have more input than that.

 

Yep same reporting model with Whaley and Marrone and Whaley and Rex

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Hargreaves would be a worthy addition to the team, But what about Kevin Johnson sitting behind Wallace? Should we not give him the opportunity to show that he can succeed in a role he succeeded in 2 seasons ago? 

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I know the question without reading a single post from the thread. Nope. 

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If by some chance he falls to the Bills, they should grab him immediately. He's a big talent upgrade over Johnson, if nothing else, and will give Wallace competition. 

 

Regarding Wallace, he's had a tough couple of games, but his overall performance is moderately OK. He played well early on, and players at the CB position do have ups and downs. But he's physically overmatched too often.

 

Interesting fact: he's the fifth most targeted CB in the NFL in 2019, and has given up the fifth most receptions. Part of that comes from playing across from Tre White, of course. But if he's the fifth most targeted guy and giving up the fifth most receptions, that tells me he's average. 

Edited by dave mcbride

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32 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

He is doing what McConsrvative wants him to do.  See that is the problem hiring the GM after the HC and having BOTH report directly to Ownership.  If there is a disagreement who wins?  McConservative does

Simple as that, huh? :lol:

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32 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

He is doing what McConsrvative wants him to do.  See that is the problem hiring the GM after the HC and having BOTH report directly to Ownership.  If there is a disagreement who wins?  McConservative does

I think the bigger question driving the conversation is whether he's a good matchup zone player. If he is, than I suspect McDermott will take him seriously. The fall-off in Wallace's play has to be concerning for him. 

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Just now, K-9 said:

Simple as that, huh? :lol:

 

Who do you think wins out in a player disagreement between Beane and McD?  Who has the final say in Buffalo. I am pretty sure I read it is McD.

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I think the bigger question driving the conversation is whether he's a good matchup zone player. If he is, than I suspect McDermott will take him seriously. The fall-off in Wallace's play has to be concerning for him. 

STRENGTHS

 Premier, quick twitch athlete with explosion pulsing through his hips and feet. Instant click-­and-­close action to explode forward and attack the throw. Vertical springs to go up and over receivers at the high point. Smooth, controlled backpedal with ability to weave and mirror route progressions. Plays with outstanding body control and balance. Feet are electric. Can overwhelm lesser opponents across from him. Instinctive and urgent in his play. Excels from press, off or zone coverage.

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2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Who do you think wins out in a player disagreement between Beane and McD?  Who has the final say in Buffalo. I am pretty sure I read it is McD.

STRENGTHS

 Premier, quick twitch athlete with explosion pulsing through his hips and feet. Instant click-­and-­close action to explode forward and attack the throw. Vertical springs to go up and over receivers at the high point. Smooth, controlled backpedal with ability to weave and mirror route progressions. Plays with outstanding body control and balance. Feet are electric. Can overwhelm lesser opponents across from him. Instinctive and urgent in his play. Excels from press, off or zone coverage.

Not putting too much stock in this, but he appears to be having a pretty bad season. Here's Wallace: https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/levi-wallace/25445. And here's Hargreaves: https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/vernon-hargreaves/10645

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1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Not putting too much stock in this, but he appears to be having a pretty bad season. Here's Wallace: https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/levi-wallace/25445. And here's Hargreaves: https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/vernon-hargreaves/10645

 

Could be a down year, the fact is they initially in the offseason did pick up his 5th year option Maybe a change a scenery helps either way low risk move

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2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Could be a down year, the fact is they initially in the offseason did pick up his 5th year option Maybe a change a scenery helps either way low risk move

I just did some research on him. People covering the Bucs say he's been absolutely terrible this season, and he only played one game last year. The year before he missed half the season. The only full season he had was his rookie season in 2016. Basically: numerous injuries + poor play + bad attitude (the lack of hustle issue isn't the first time he's had problems) = getting the axe. Them picking up his fifth year option is just bad management, which is explained I guess by the fact that they're a very bad organization. 

Edited by dave mcbride
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7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Not putting too much stock in this, but he appears to be having a pretty bad season. Here's Wallace: https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/levi-wallace/25445. And here's Hargreaves: https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/vernon-hargreaves/10645

As someone that watches almost all Bucs games, this has probably been his best season to date. Simply put, he's been pretty much terrible each season of his career.

 

The belief was that he just wasn't a good fit for the zone defense that Tampa used his first few years and that using him as more of a press corner the way he succeeded in college would turn his game around, hence picking up his option. Instead, he's continued to be bad.

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