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Bills used 21 personnel more than any other team in the league in week 1

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Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Not really new.......Kevin Gilbride tried to do the same thing here in 2003.

 

Worked a little bit........until it didn't.

 

Maybe Allen can do a better TB12 impersonation than Bledsoe.

 

 

 

 

....Bledsoe made the Statute of Liberty look mobile.......

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1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Not really new.......Kevin Gilbride tried to do the same thing here in 2003.

 

Worked a little bit........until it didn't.

 

Maybe Allen can do a better TB12 impersonation than Bledsoe.

 

 

 

Allen is going to play more like Favre but maybe a little more intelligence at the line, imo. Mechanics are getting better but it will be hard to keep the gun slinger mentality in check- he knows he can fit balls into windows with his cannon that most cant. Honestly, I am excited for the future and saw a different JA on Sunday.

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8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Not really new.......Kevin Gilbride tried to do the same thing here in 2003.

 

Worked a little bit........until it didn't.

 

Maybe Allen can do a better TB12 impersonation than Bledsoe.

 

 

 

You meant to say it worked in 2002 when Gilbride had Centers, and didn't work in 2003 when he was gone.  

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39 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

Not with this personnel - this week they ran zero 2 TE formations in NE.  They ran a lot of 2 RB 1 TE and a lot of 2 RB 0 TE with 3 WR. 

 

They take their strength and then match it against your weakness.

 

Give it time and as these young players learn more and are more comfortable- the formations will change, but right now DiMarco has the most experience in this offense and can do things others can’t if you tighten the formation down.

 

Yep, the Pats had 2RBs on the field 64% of the time. People might not like DiMarco but Daboll is running a Pats style offense here and I'm guessing they'll continue to field 2RBs a significant portion of the time.

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2 hours ago, Logic said:

Per Warren Sharp from Sharpfootballanalysis.com, the Bills used 21 personnel (2 running backs, 1 tight end, 2 wide receivers) more than any other team in the league in week 1, as shown on the chart below. 

As has already been discussed here and elsewhere, the plan seems to be to come out in 21 personnel and then, based on what the defense presents, either line up in a classic pro set and run the ball, or flex to a spread or bunch formation of some sort and throw it. This stresses the defense and forces them to choose whether or not to stay in base defense. In other words, it's what the Patriots have been doing for years now. We all already saw this with our own eyes in week 1, but this chart backs up the idea:

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Note: The Bills were ALSO one of the five teams with the highest number of pass plays in week 1. That may not be the case every week going forward, but it sure is a breath of fresh air. Modern NFL offense being run by the BILLS?! Hallelujah!

Thanks for this.  Every day there's more evidence that the Bills are mimicking the Patriots.  

 

Sure seemed like with 2 running backs they were forcing the D to play three linebackers, and by then splitting DiMarco out they were forcing the D to make a choice - send a linebacker out to the flat, weakening the run defense, or send a DB out to take him, meaning that the Bills had a linebacker matched up with a wideout.   

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4 minutes ago, MDH said:

 

Yep, the Pats had 2RBs on the field 64% of the time. People might not like DiMarco but Daboll is running a Pats style offense here and I'm guessing they'll continue to field 2RBs a significant portion of the time.

Pats* also dressed 1 TE for the game.  

 

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Just now, GG said:

You meant to say it worked in 2002 when Gilbride had Centers, and didn't work in 2003 when he was gone.  

 

Things kinda' went south with his more wide open attack late in 2002.

 

The 2002 Bills were all about passing personnel.........including Centers and Riemersma neither of whom could block.

 

Gilbride(or perhaps Greggo/Donahoe) determined that part of it was that Centers wasn't enough of a threat to block or run the ball to be able to force defenses into favorable personnel advantages.

 

Outsmarted themselves.

 

I mean honestly........how often do you expect teams to end up with one of their corners out wide against the fullback again after what the Bills put on tape Sunday?    And it didn't even really work THEN. 

 

 

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....agree "34"...just get a bit reticent about the "gunslinger label"....go back and read the 2004 pre-draft pundits' analyses...Losman was the "Favre heir apparent gunslinger going to the Pack at 23"....he woefully pales in comparison to Josh as does the current "McBeane/McDermott Regime" to Tom Terrific Donohoe...this kid takes nothing for granted, is mindful and respectful of the game and will work his arse off x 10 to get better for HIS team......tempering the cannon and focusing on the touch stuff have been a MAJOR focal point in his development...he gets "IT" IMO........

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1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

Look who’s number 2 - NE.  If you are looking at what and why they are doing this - look no further than that team.

 

A 21 personnel grouping - keeps the defense in base formation usually and when you spread it out - it gives easy access to the coverage scheme.  

 

If the team goes nickel - then you have the bigger bodies to run it down their throat.  

 

Rewatching the game it was obvious the problems this was causing with the defense as it slowed the blitz and gave Allen easy reads in the passing game- especially when they play with tempo and don’t allow substitution.

 

I think as the season goes on you will see other variations- 2 TEs with Dimarco off and/or Gore and Singletary as the 2 RBs, but they wanted the most experience possible for that first drive to limit stupid penalties and if needed give JA protection.

 

 

The turnovers really mask a well throughout and executed game plan.  The first half Buffalo dominated both sides of the ball.  The offense moved the ball at will.  2 fumbles, a 3rd down personal foul, and a tip int ended 4 drives at about 30.  In a game that 3 drives ended early to turnovers Buffalo ended week 1 19th in yards.  Allen threw for 250 and was over 60%.  

 

The offense is simple but looks complex.  Allen had total control of the offense. It's pretty obvious the only thing I change going forward is using Singletary more.  Get him 20 touches a game.  When they play worst dlines the 21 personel will be problematic.  When Kroft returns 22 personal will be intriguing as well.  

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18 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Things kinda' went south with his more wide open attack late in 2002.

 

The 2002 Bills were all about passing personnel.........including Centers and Riemersma neither of whom could block.

 

Gilbride(or perhaps Greggo/Donahoe) determined that part of it was that Centers wasn't enough of a threat to block or run the ball to be able to force defenses into favorable personnel advantages.

 

Outsmarted themselves.

 

I mean honestly........how often do you expect teams to end up with one of their corners out wide against the fullback again after what the Bills put on tape Sunday?    And it didn't even really work THEN. 

 

 

It didnt happen Sunday because of the errors made in Jets territory, but if they move the ball like that teams will bring in a Nickleback.  Once that happens you now are running into a loaded box down a run defender.  You get a fullback, Te, or lineman on a db. 

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2 hours ago, jwhit34 said:

If they are going to use 21 personnel so much I would like to see them put Yeldon in as the 2nd back instead of DiMarco and if they shift into a passing play have Yeldon or Singletary splitting out in a WR slot instead of DiMarco. 

 

 

they likely will do just that.
no way Daboll keeps running the same each week against different Teams. Not what the Bills do anymore.

Maybe next week against Giants Foster and Know and Yeldon get the gold stars. thats how a team with decent to very good depth gets it done over a season .

imho

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1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

It didnt happen Sunday because of the errors made in Jets territory, but if they move the ball like that teams will bring in a Nickleback.  Once that happens you now are running into a loaded box down a run defender.  You get a fullback, Te, or lineman on a db. 

 

 

Why?

 

Don't want to get caught with a LB out in coverage against a......fullback?   Really worried about that?  

 

And most defenses are fine with making you go 12 plays to get a score........which is the way it was going for 3 quarters before Moseley got hurt.

 

I suspect(and hope) that the game plan will change significantly from week to week and we won't see a fullback playing the Z position.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, freddyjj said:

It's maybe because he's he's a WR and not a RB.   Could see Yeldon or Knox as the H Back type with Singletary next week in 21 formation if they choose to use them instead of DiMarco

yep

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5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Why?

 

Don't want to get caught with a LB out in coverage against a......fullback?   Really worried about that?  

 

And most defenses are fine with making you go 12 plays to get a score........which is the way it was going for 3 quarters before Moseley got hurt.

 

I suspect(and hope) that the game plan will change significantly from week to week and we won't see a fullback playing the Z position.

 

 

 

 

I suspect and also hope you are right.

Bills designed the "Staff" for flexibility. whether week to week or for game time adjustments.

I feel we might now have the players and Coaching staff to execute our hopes

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2 hours ago, Logic said:


The problem with that plan is that if the defense comes out in nickel or dime, the Bills would line up in a pro set and run the ball. Unless Yeldon learned how to play fullback and I missed it, that doesn't really work. I suppose you could have them in a shotgun or pistol split backs formation, but again, you're taking away a lead blocker.

 

 

What he said.

 

🤗

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44 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks for this.  Every day there's more evidence that the Bills are mimicking the Patriots.  

 

Sure seemed like with 2 running backs they were forcing the D to play three linebackers, and by then splitting DiMarco out they were forcing the D to make a choice - send a linebacker out to the flat, weakening the run defense, or send a DB out to take him, meaning that the Bills had a linebacker matched up with a wideout.   


Indeed.

I also saw it pointed out on Twitter today that most teams have a limited number of defenses to check to in response to certain things. Specifically, the Jets defense likely only had a few basic defenses to check into when the Bills flexed their 21 personnel into spread formations. The analyst showed several videos where the Jets came out in an exotic look, but then once the Bills flexed into a spread set, the defense had no choice but to check into a vanilla cover 2 shell. The combination of the no-huddle offense, the personnel grouping, and the formations being flexed into by the Bills forced the opposition OUT of exotic defensive looks and into vanilla looks that Josh knew how to attack. That's high level, New England-esque playcalling. Kudos to Daboll.

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2 hours ago, jwhit34 said:

If they are going to use 21 personnel so much I would like to see them put Yeldon in as the 2nd back instead of DiMarco and if they shift into a passing play have Yeldon or Singletary splitting out in a WR slot instead of DiMarco. 

 

 

Yeldon isn't going to be blocking 250 pound linebackers flying in at full speed

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Just now, 3rdand12 said:

I suspect and also hope you are right.

Bills designed the "Staff" for flexibility. whether week to week or for game time adjustments.

I feel we might now have the players and Coaching staff to execute our hopes

My thing wrt offensive 'looks' that are working for other teams now and in the recent past has been having one standout/elite talent at either the TE or RB position. Some of the best and most effective offensive groupings I can recall offhand (at least ones that were used consistently and to good effect) were the Eagles 2TE set w/ Ertz and Godert and Saints 22 running Kamara/Ingram and Cook/Hill, and those were great because respectively Ertz is a superduper talent esp when you have to decide defensively to cover with a DB or LB and Saints are so dangerous when Kamara is a pass option if you stay in nickle the check to Ingram kills if your tight ends can block even marginally. Protecting your most dangerous offensive talents by lining up in a package that keeps them 'multiple' is a great way of maximizing talent even if they don't necessarily end up w/the ball.

 

Far as Bills...we lack a Thomas-like wideout that can be the backbreaker option if the defense sells out on containing Kamara leaving him in single coverage, or a receiving TE threat to match the way Eagles have with Goedert because one of either him or Ertz is getting checked by nickle corner or safety which is a mismatch either way. If the Bills are going to continue using a bunch of 2RB/1TE (which I believe they will because it's arguably the grouping that gives most offensive options with speed guy like Brown outside and a bunch of TEs who are fairly similar receiving threats) I would expect to see more of Yeldon going forward because if you leave Gore in w/Singletary in 21 I think defensively they are easier to deal with...TE doesn't need special treatment (imo) and Gore is either in pass pro or a checkdown option instead of true threat (not that he can't catch the ball, just overall) to leak out onto LB. 

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18 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yeldon isn't going to be blocking 250 pound linebackers flying in at full speed

 

Yeldon couldn't block a plug hole. 

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1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I mean honestly........how often do you expect teams to end up with one of their corners out wide against the fullback again after what the Bills put on tape Sunday?    And it didn't even really work THEN. 

 

 

 

That’s what gets me about this debate, thinking that DiMarco is a useful gadget RB.  It failed badly on Sunday and will fail more now that there’s tape.

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15 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yeldon isn't going to be blocking 250 pound linebackers flying in at full speed

 

 

I remember way back in the olden days of 2015 and 2016 when the Bills running game was the best in the league by a lot and they did it without a fullback!  

 

That must've been sacrilege to you not having a fullback on the field.

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I remember way back in the olden days of 2015 and 2016 when the Bills running game was the best in the league by a lot and they did it without a fullback!  

 

That must've been sacrilege to you not having a fullback on the field.

 

 

 

 

I don't agree with every decision the Bills make...

 

But football teams are filled with men who follow a role. His special teams play , leadership and obviously being selfless has earned himself a role on the team

 

The second there is someone better for the role, fill it. But it probably won't be till the off-season

 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Why?

 

Don't want to get caught with a LB out in coverage against a......fullback?   Really worried about that?  

 

And most defenses are fine with making you go 12 plays to get a score........which is the way it was going for 3 quarters before Moseley got hurt.

 

I suspect(and hope) that the game plan will change significantly from week to week and we won't see a fullback playing the Z position.

 

 

 

 

If those drives end in points not turnovers, the defense will adjust to stop the quick passing game.  

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