Ed Oliver doesn't look very good

[MJS]

Yeah, he's a bust after 5 snaps in a few preseason games...

 

What is this place?

[teef]

7 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

Teef, a fellow BC alum, as always speaks the truth.

did you go to bc too?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I mean I made a single point that Oliver struggled to get off blocks in the preseason which makes me nervous.

 

9 pages later most of the reactions are negative but no one really proves my point wrong. So what is the issue? Just because it's preseason? Who cares. Players lives get changed because of preseason and camp. They get cut. 

 

Obviously Oliver is just getting started and I'm excited to see him develop. I wanted 1 player the whole offseason in the draft, it was Oliver. He's not a bust because of his 1st preseason action, he just failed to get off blocks. That's what I said.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I mean I made a single point that Oliver struggled to get off blocks in the preseason which makes me nervous.

 

9 pages later most of the reactions are negative but no one really proves my point wrong. So what is the issue? Just because it's preseason? Who cares. Players lives get changed because of preseason and camp. They get cut. 

 

Obviously Oliver is just getting started and I'm excited to see him develop. I wanted 1 player the whole offseason in the draft, it was Oliver. He's not a bust because of his 1st preseason action, he just failed to get off blocks. That's what I said.

 

You specifically stated you're a 7 out of 10 which is really nervous.  That's what you said.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You specifically stated you're a 7 out of 10 which is really nervous.  That's what you said.

That was actually a sarcastic reply by me. Maybe I should have put lol after my reply. 

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

That was actually a sarcastic reply by me. Maybe I should have put lol after my reply. 

 

It didn't sound sarcastic to be honest....just because of the specific topic.  I've seen him penetrate, I've seen him disrupt plays.

I think you have such unrealistic expectations on him when he hasn't even played a single down in the regular season.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It didn't sound sarcastic to be honest....just because of the specific topic.  I've seen him penetrate, I've seen him disrupt plays.

I think you have such unrealistic expectations on him when he hasn't even played a single down in the regular season.  

I think most people have unrealistic expectations for him. My expectations are realistic. I compare him to average starters while others are using Aaron Donald and John Randle as comparisons. You're setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

 

[teef]

7 bro!  it's out there!

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I think most people have unrealistic expectations for him. My expectations are realistic. I compare him to average starters while others are using Aaron Donald and John Randle as comparisons. You're setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

 

 

You're saying you have realistic expectations from him when you created a thread about him after 3 preseason games and saying you’re nervous?

 

Then you say he’s Broderick Bunkley just because he’s undersized and I think completely made up they transitioned him to NT.  Not to mention that you believe Oliver’s comparison to Bunkley was fair because McDermott was the Secondary Coach in Philly when Bunkley was drafted.  

 

[947]

Anybody know Oliver's PFF grade for the preseason?

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You're saying you have realistic expectations from him when you created a thread about him after 3 preseason games and saying you’re nervous?

 

Then you say he’s Broderick Bunkley just because he’s undersized and I think completely made up they transitioned him to NT.  Not to mention that you believe Oliver’s comparison to Bunkley was fair because McDermott was the Secondary Coach in Philly when Bunkley was drafted.  

 

 

Aaron Donald is an unfair expectation to set anyone. He can be Kawaan Short though and that is a guy who didn't start until year 2 but by year 3 was playing at an elite level and has been every season since. Clearly Oliver will have more of a role his rookie year than Short and I would hope develops a little faster as a result. 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Aaron Donald is an unfair expectation to set anyone. He can be Kawaan Short though and that is a guy who didn't start until year 2 but by year 3 was playing at an elite level and has been every season since. Clearly Oliver will have more of a role his rookie year than Short and I would hope develops a little faster as a result. 

 

I don’t compare Oliver to Donald because I think Donald is unreal strength to go with speed.  Oliver is strong but not at Donald’s level.

 

I think John Randle is a good comparison....if you’re looking at his high end.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, 947 said:

Anybody know Oliver's PFF grade for the preseason?

 

He got positive mentions in their write ups the first two games but a more negative write up this week - which I think is pretty fair and chimes with what the eye test told me. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You're saying you have realistic expectations from him when you created a thread about him after 3 preseason games and saying you’re nervous?

 

Then you say he’s Broderick Bunkley just because he’s undersized and I think completely made up they transitioned him to NT.  Not to mention that you believe Oliver’s comparison to Bunkley was fair because McDermott was the Secondary Coach in Philly when Bunkley was drafted.  

 

I can't find a whole lot from 10 years ago but here's one article. 

 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/620663-philadelphia-eagles-brodrick-bunkley-will-push-antonio-dixon-to-the-bench?share=other

 

Under Sean McDermott (and, to a degree, Jim Johnson as well), the defensive ends were taught to look inside and play run before attack the quarterback. That half-second on every snap was the difference between a sack or a touchdown pass on several occasions.

McDermott (and, again, Johnson) also had the defensive tackles responsible for two gaps on every snap. Since they usually would line up either in, or close to, the B-gap, they would have to sit in the B-gap and squeeze the A-gap. That meant taking on the guards and driving them inside to create a pile in the middle.

That, of course, is the job description of a big defensive tackle weighing somewhere between 320-340 pounds — not for someone the size of Bunkley who is generously listed at 305 pounds.

But Bunkley did it, and did it well for a couple seasons. However, he struggled in 2010 and then injured his elbow. If it was going to be tough for him to play a two-gap system before, it was going to get even tougher with an elbow injury that was obviously going to hamper his upper-body strength.

 

 

Another article on what McDermott asked Bunkley to do.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/section215.com/2011/07/31/eagles-make-first-mistake-of-free-agency-trade-brodrick-bunkley/amp/

 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I can't find a whole lot from 10 years ago but here's one article. 

 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/620663-philadelphia-eagles-brodrick-bunkley-will-push-antonio-dixon-to-the-bench?share=other

 

 

 

 

 

Another article on what McDermott asked Bunkley to do.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/section215.com/2011/07/31/eagles-make-first-mistake-of-free-agency-trade-brodrick-bunkley/amp/

 

 

 

 

Bunkely isn't the only 3 tech, one gap DT in the last 8 years.  That's what they're asked to do and why they play that position.  

And the Eagles traded him so he obviously wasn't in their plans....

 

He was out of the league 3 seasons later....he was a bust.  And you're already comparing Oliver to him.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 hours ago, MJS said:

Yeah, he's a bust after 5 snaps in a few preseason games...

 

What is this place?

 

.......sorry Ed, they'll meet you out front at 3:55PM on August 31........adios bro...........

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

10 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Bunkely isn't the only 3 tech, one gap DT in the last 8 years.  That's what they're asked to do and why they play that position.  

And the Eagles traded him so he obviously wasn't in their plans....

 

He was out of the league 3 seasons later....he was a bust.  And you're already comparing Oliver to him.

It's not obvious why I went to bunkley? McDermott, high 1st round pick, undersized, starter, nose tackle.

 

My main reasoning for the comparison though is that Oliver may turn into a DT that holds his ground and eats blocks like he did in Houston a lot instead of the 8-10 sack player people are expecting.

 

Bunkley had injuries but he was a good starting DT in a role most people didn't expect. He played a role in Philadelphia and New Orleans that is normally reserved for bigger DTs. Oliver could follow those footsteps. It's not just preseason. He played NT in college as well.

 

We've already seen situations where our LBs are running free making plays in the backfield.

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Buffalo_Stampede

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It's not obvious why I went to bunkley? McDermott, high 1st round pick, undersized, starter, nose tackle.

 

My main reasoning for the comparison though is that Oliver may turn into a DT that holds his ground and eats blocks like he did in Houston a lot instead of the 8-10 sack player people are expecting.

 

Bunkley had injuries but he was a good starting DT in a role most people didn't expect. He played a role in Philadelphia and New Orleans that is normally reserved for bigger DTs. Oliver could follow those footsteps. It's not just preseason. He played NT in college as well.

 

 

He did in 2018. He did so less before that. 

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It's not obvious why I went to bunkley? McDermott, high 1st round pick, undersized, starter, nose tackle.

 

My main reasoning for the comparison though is that Oliver may turn into a DT that holds his ground and eats blocks like he did in Houston a lot instead of the 8-10 sack player people are expecting.

 

Bunkley had injuries but he was a good starting DT in a role most people didn't expect. He played a role in Philadelphia and New Orleans that is normally reserved for bigger DTs. Oliver could follow those footsteps. It's not just preseason. He played NT in college as well.

 

We've already seen situations where our LBs are running free making plays in the backfield.

 

 

 

 

We very specifically took him to be a penetrator.  We're not turning him into a NT.  So one guy 8 years ago they took an undersized guy to play NT and then moved on from him.  He played one season under McDermott and the next season he was traded.  Why would they trade him if he was a good starting DT?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We very specifically took him to be a penetrator.  We're not turning him into a NT.  So one guy 8 years ago they took an undersized guy to play NT and then moved on from him.  He played one season under McDermott and the next season he was traded.  Why would they trade him if he was a good starting DT?

Oh my goodness. Let's just sit back and watch his development. 

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Oh my goodness. Let's just sit back and watch his development. 

 

I the one who is...you're the one who created this thread about how nervous you are after 3 preseason games and moving him to another position.  

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

My main reasoning for the comparison though is that Oliver may turn into a DT that holds his ground and eats blocks like he did in Houston a lot instead of the 8-10 sack player people are expecting.

Don't hold your breath waiting for this to happen

 

Ed Oliver was graded as a top five pick in this years draft and fell to the Bills at #9 because the Giants and Raiders picked flyers. That said, yes, the kid is somewhat undersized to play DT at 6'2'' 287lbs in comparison to most NFL DTs.  However, the very best DT in the league is Aaron Donald who is 6'1'' 280lbs...who runs a 4.6 40.  Oliver is slightly slower at 4.75 which is still blazing for a guy that big. 

 

I watched the kid and he is at times getting double teamed and also at times getting engulfed by massive O linemen. If teams are already doubling the kid it means that they already have great respect for what he can do. He is a rookie and is learning the NFL ropes while he plays. Oliver is a pass rusher and a beast. Just get a listen to what the Buffalo Bills offensive line players are saying about him is that he creates havoc all the time and they hate to go against him as he makes them look bad. 

 

The thing is, that even Aaron Donald can look invisible at times. Donald was double, triple teamed in the super bowl by a very good Patriots O line and only got one hit on Brady all game. This from a player that got 20.5 sacks, 41 QB hits in 2018. 

 

It may take a few games but I suspect that once the Buffalo defense gets settled in what they can do that Oliver will be a very disruptive force this season. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Nihilarian said:

Don't hold your breath waiting for this to happen

 

Ed Oliver was graded as a top five pick in this years draft and fell to the Bills at #9 because the Giants and Raiders picked flyers. That said, yes, the kid is somewhat undersized to play DT at 6'2'' 287lbs in comparison to most NFL DTs.  However, the very best DT in the league is Aaron Donald who is 6'1'' 280lbs...who runs a 4.6 40.  Oliver is slightly slower at 4.75 which is still blazing for a guy that big. 

 

I watched the kid and he is at times getting double teamed and also at times getting engulfed by massive O linemen. If teams are already doubling the kid it means that they already have great respect for what he can do. He is a rookie and is learning the NFL ropes while he plays. Oliver is a pass rusher and a beast. Just get a listen to what the Buffalo Bills offensive line players are saying about him is that he creates havoc all the time and they hate to go against him as he makes them look bad. 

 

The thing is, that even Aaron Donald can look invisible at times. Donald was double, triple teamed in the super bowl by a very good Patriots O line and only got one hit on Brady all game. This from a player that got 20.5 sacks, 41 QB hits in 2018. 

 

It may take a few games but I suspect that once the Buffalo defense gets settled in what they can do that Oliver will be a very disruptive force this season. 

 

I don't believe Donald had a sack in the entire post season.  

[Element115]

10 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

 

Ya know, Interweb chat rooms & discussion forums truly challenge established human behavior patterns. Long time members and those who contribute often become uniquely burdened with the unproven theory that every noob is a nose-pickin’, zitfaced teen living with his parents. There’s zero evidence to support this strange phenomena, yet it is oddly undeniable.

 

y’all aren’t helping the situation.

 

Don't worry, eventually all opinions that are "wrong" will be suppressed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIuAPgV80-E

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I don't believe Donald had a sack in the entire post season.  

 

Bust. 

[John from Riverside]

What I really find amazing here is comparisons to Aaron Donald....the BEST DT IN THE LEAGUE before the kid has even played one NFL game.....and if he isnt Aaron Donald then buyers remorse.

 

Give it a friggen rest.....we will find out who he is in the NFL soon enough....but the talk that he has somehow disspaointed in the limited snaps he is getting in pre season is STUPID

 

 

[K-9]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

What I really find amazing here is comparisons to Aaron Donald....the BEST DT IN THE LEAGUE before the kid has even played one NFL game.....and if he isnt Aaron Donald then buyers remorse.

 

Give it a friggen rest.....we will find out who he is in the NFL soon enough....but the talk that he has somehow disspaointed in the limited snaps he is getting in pre season is STUPID

 

 

The comparisons to Donald coming out were inevitable when Oliver blew up his pro day and exhibited the kind of athleticism at that size that nobody else but Donald himself did previously. 

 

Unfair, but inevitable. 

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, K-9 said:

The comparisons to Donald coming out were inevitable when Oliver blew up his pro day and exhibited the kind of athleticism at that size that nobody else but Donald himself did previously. 

 

Unfair, but inevitable. 

 

Cyril Richardson I believe was 330 lbs.  

 

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Cyril Richardson I believe was 330 lbs.  

 

As impressive as he may have been, Richardson’s athleticism and explosion just didn’t compare to Oliver’s and Donald’s. 

 

Richardson is in select company for his size though. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

As impressive as he may have been, Richardson’s athleticism and explosion just didn’t compare to Oliver’s and Donald’s. 

 

Richardson is in select company for his size though. 

 

I actually bought into Rex saying Donald was too small.  Then I saw this highlight....

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I actually bought into Rex saying Donald was too small.  Then I saw this highlight....

Rex wasn’t the only coach who thought that, but it makes you wonder why coaches are so entrenched in their thinking at times. 

[Nihilarian]

41 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Rex wasn’t the only coach who thought that, but it makes you wonder why coaches are so entrenched in their thinking at times. 

Rex Ryan was a moron with a one trick pony defensive scheme. He was correct though as Darnold was too small, undersized for the defense Ryan wanted to run.

 

Let's not forget what Ryan did to the best pass rushing D line in the league in Buffalo. Instead of asking the best pass rushers in the league to actually pass rush... as he would prefer his D linemen to stay in a small spot, to take on and hold up the O line player in front of them so that the LBers could make the play. (never mind that the LBers weren't that good)

Or ask them to drop into pass coverage. 

 

There are real reasons as to why Rex is out of the NFL and his brother Rob who was a DC for the longest time is now inside linebackers coach at Washington. The NFL has passed them by...