How much is cole beasly really loving the bills?

[CincyBillsFan]

15 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

BTW, here's 9 plays in the Detroit game whereby primarily slot receivers (whomever they were) were more than open enough, sometimes wide-open, and Allen either didn't see them or was simply ignoring them looking for the homerun ball.  This notion that our receivers, slot or otherwise, could never or rarely get open is utter nonsense.  Also notice, if you watch the entire video, that Allen really isn't  under any particular pressure, certainly nothing that the average NFL QB doesn't face every Sunday.  Likewise, average NFL QBs make most of those throws resulting in completions.

 

1:00 - Allen has McKenzie wide-open on the right but for whatever inexplicable reason doesn't see him.  OL/blocking was fantastic.  

 

1:10 - He misses (doesn't see apparently) Foster who's wide open down a seam if he hits him in stride. 

 

1:26 - He's got Thompson (from the slot) open if he leads him.  

 

1:57 - He's got the RB open for an easy 5+ on 1-n-10 but doesn't see or hit him.  

 

3:05 - He's got Croom open on the release 

 

3:15 - He's got McCloud open on the break on the right and Croom is a good yard-plus ahead of his coverage on the left.  Good QBs make those throws.  

 

4:15 - Not slot, but he's got Ford wide-open on his break for an easy 5+ on 1-n-10, instead looks downfield incomplete.  Again, you've gotta take what the D gives you, Allen's always looking for a home-run.  

 

4:30 - Take your choice, right (Clay) or left (Ford), slot receivers open on either side on 2-n-10, either one for an easy 5+ w/ no coverage setting up no worse than a 3rd-n-short.  Instead Allen once again, looking for the homerun, goes deep/incomplete setting up a 3rd-n-long.  

 

4:49 - Here again, Allen waits and waves off Clay on the right who's wide-open for a decent gain on 1-n-15 or DiMarco on the left for a lesser gain.  Granted, he completed downfield to Foster, but again, instead of taking what the D gives him, Allen waits, that time it worked out, above it did not.  

 

 

 

It' simply not true that no one was ever open underneath or in the flats.  It's an excuse that fans have levied which has become a false narrative giving Allen an out.  Look, I get it, everyone wants Allen to work out, so do I, but reality is reality.  

 

Look at the video above and tell me with a straight face that none of those receivers were open, it's ridiculous.  

 

We'll see how much Beasley "being open" in areas where Allen simply didn't look to last year makes the kind of difference being talked about here.  

 

Ronin did you actually watch the video you linked to?  By my count Allen hit every one of this short passes - EVERY SINGLE ONE!

 

I also so Allen throw away  4 or 5 passes while under pressure.

 

I saw #10 & Jones drop at least one catchable ball each.  Sure #10 would have made a nice catch to grab that deep pass but it's a catch I've routinely seen MADE IN HIGH SCHOOL football.

 

I also was reminded of that stupid 4th down play in the 3rd quarter when a FG was the play to make. 

 

Sorry but I don't agree at all with your take on this video of that game. 

Edited June 23, 2019 by CincyBillsFan

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Do you think not having the best QB in history throwing to him might matter at all? Maybe just a little? 

Depends entirely on the argument one is trying to make. ?

[CincyBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

Maybe everyone's making excuses for Allen and blaming everything on everyone but Allen.  

 

This is a straw man argument.  Those of us who are CAUTIOUSLY optimistic that Allen might just be our franchise QB readily admit that he must improve a whole lot or we're going to be looking for another QB in 2021 or 2022.  We fully acknowledge he must get better in a number of areas of his game.  That is a long way from making excuses for the guy.

 

And as for those "excuses" you have to have blinders on not to see that the O-line, running game and receivers left a lot to be desired last season. 

[Ronin]

5 hours ago, ctk232 said:

While not a tremendous number of plays, Allen showed growth in the short game with McKenzie in the last two games last season. Obviously this doesn't present any kind of discernible pattern just yet, but I imagine Beasley filling the route responsibilities McKenzie did last year (outside of jet sweeps and misdirection motions). There were a few key first downs against the phish, and even Lions and Pats, where Allen hit a 10 yd hook on the outside hash pretty well, as well as a couple crossing routes. 

 

Fwiw, I agree it's a part of his game that needs growth and refinement, however, I do see Beasley contributing in this aspect as well. While not the largest target, he does have the ability to provide substantial windows as a slot WR, something severely lacking last year as Zay's routes aren't/weren't crisp and was asked to fill more of the WR2 role, and where McKenzie could run more slot routes, his hands and separation weren't quite there. Beasley introduces both, and I expect his highlights to be minimal the first couple of weeks until he and Allen gain rapport - but I can certainly see him as the 3rd down passing option for Allen in the short yd game.

 

Good post.  At some point however Daboll needs to be worked into the analysis too.  

 

Things are not always bottom-dwelling because of one thing, in this case the false narrative that our receivers never or even rarely got open short.  

 

Whether Allen "showed growth" or not, and let's assume that he did, whatever growth he showed was still miserable by NFL standards.  

 

If he did "show growth" then the growth was dubious because it went from absolutely horrific to poor, or perhaps fair given some lattitude.  

 

And FWIW, Allen ranked 35 of 35 in uncatchable throws debunking one of the going narratives here that his accuracy wasn't really an issue.  

 

PFF did a fantastic in-depth analysis of all QBS, it's well worth the one-time monthly fee to download it if you're a stats guy.  

 

Either way, as I've said before, if you look at Beasley's career and where he's buttered his bread so-to-speak, then look at Allen's splits in the same categories, you'll notice that what is Beasley's strength is Allen's weakness, or was last season anyway since Allen was a rookie.  Whether or not that corrects Allen's issues remains to be seen, but again, IMO the issues run deeper and I'd have focused a whole helluva lot more on bettering our OL way more than we did. 

 

It's all about fixing Allen and IMO they could have done a much better job.  Time, soon to see, will tell.  

[Ronin]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Oh no. I didn't miss that point. I would agree that Allen wouldn't have done much with Beasley in 2018. FTR, I'm not completely sold on JA. I've come around quite a bit, but I'm definitely not there. The hope is that with a year under his belt, the game will slow down and he'll become more proficient and anticipatory. I feel like the problem isn't so much inaccuracy as it is anticipation. There's no questioning the kid's work ethic, so there's a chance. He'll never be Brady or Brees in this department, but with his skill set, it's not a requirement. He just needs to become "adequate." His STRENGTH will always be the big play.

 

OK, very fair.  

 

Where I bend off is in how to make the appropriate corrections.  

 

As I've oft stated, the issues are more mental than "talent around him" etc.  And look, that's not to say that our WR caste was good last season, it was easily below-average.  BUT, this notion that no one was ever open is riduculous.  Just watch that Detroit video, and that's just one game, that I posted.  

 

IMO the answer was to, again, build the equivalent of the Atlantic Wall around Allen to give him as much time as we possibly could.  Marginally improving the OL while bringing in one-dimensional WRs like Brown or slot guys like Beasley that we agree, and in my words, were invisible to Allen last season, well, I'm not sure that approach will work. 

 

We'll see.  By my understanding here, our OL is finally above-average and according to what the going narrative here is our WRs are finally a good set  

 

I beg to differ as I see only a marginal improvement and one that hinges all but entirely on Morse remaining healthy (on odds-on wager?) and WRs that are average NFL WRs on a good day.   But hey, what do I know.   

12 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Ronin did you actually watch the video you linked to?  By my count Allen hit every one of this short passes - EVERY SINGLE ONE!

 

I also so Allen throw away  4 or 5 passes while under pressure.

 

I saw #10 & Jones drop at least one catchable ball each.  Sure #10 would have made a nice catch to grab that deep pass but it's a catch I've routinely seen MADE IN HIGH SCHOOL football.

 

I also was reminded of that stupid 4th down play in the 3rd quarter when a FG was the play to make. 

 

Sorry but I don't agree at all with your take on this video of that game. 

 

Of course you don't.  I could have told you that before I posted it. 

 

As I said, average NFL QBs make most of those throws all day and good NFL QBs don't constantly overlook the short stuff hoping for the homerun ball.  

 

Right now that's among Allen's biggest issues.  It worked for him in college because he was a man amongst boys there.  Won't work in the NFL so he'd better learn how to pass like a successful NFL QB right quickly.  

9 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

This is a straw man argument.  Those of us who are CAUTIOUSLY optimistic that Allen might just be our franchise QB readily admit that he must improve a whole lot or we're going to be looking for another QB in 2021 or 2022.  We fully acknowledge he must get better in a number of areas of his game.  That is a long way from making excuses for the guy.

 

And as for those "excuses" you have to have blinders on not to see that the O-line, running game and receivers left a lot to be desired last season. 

'

No, hardly.  There's absolutely no shortage of threads and posts talking about how both the OL and WR talent sucked elephant orbs last year which was the primary reason for Allen's poor play.  

 

Nice try tho. 

 

[Ronin]

12 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

And as for those "excuses" you have to have blinders on not to see that the O-line, running game and receivers left a lot to be desired last season. 

 

And either way, by my understanding the OL is now very good as are the WRs. 

 

So, if this season Allen doesn't step up his play to the requisite level and beginning to meet expectations, then McBeane absolutely need to be held accountable.  

 

If he doesn't, it's either his fault or it isn't.  If it's his fault, it's McBeane's fault.  If it's not his fault, as I'm sure will be the outcry if in fact it doesn't happen, then it's still McBeane's fault for not being able to either A, get it out of him, or B, not doing everything else that they could what was necessary to do so  

 

So we'll likely be looking for a new coach and GM if he doesn't step up.  

 

I'm excited, as I'm told that everything's now in place and corrected from last season so there's no need for any concern.   

 

[CincyBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

And either way, by my understanding the OL is now very good as are the WRs. 

 

So, if this season Allen doesn't step up his play to the requisite level and beginning to meet expectations, then McBeane absolutely need to be held accountable.  

 

If he doesn't, it's either his fault or it isn't.  If it's his fault, it's McBeane's fault.  If it's not his fault, as I'm sure will be the outcry if in fact it doesn't happen, then it's still McBeane's fault for not being able to either A, get it out of him, or B, not doing everything else that they could what was necessary to do so  

 

So we'll likely be looking for a new coach and GM if he doesn't step up.  

 

I'm excited, as I'm told that everything's now in place and corrected from last season so there's no need for any concern.   

 

 

Who is saying everything is fixed?  The off season moves have improved the offense on paper.  That's all we know right now. 

 

The O-line now appears to be better ditto the WR's.  Again we'll know if it's true in September.  But why would any football fan not be optimistic that the Bills improved their offense in the off season?  The alternative is to believe they did not improve this unit or that it got worse. 

 

As for Allen, it's a reasonable expectation that he will be improved from last year because:

 

*  he will be taking almost all of the 1st team snaps in camp and during the preseason.  This alone will give him a better understanding of the offensive scheme and guys who will be playing.  it is also likely that we have a stability in the receiving group that we didn't have last season.

 

*  Dabold has now settled in and has had an entire off season to fine tune the offense to best fit Allen's strengths and hide his weaknesses. 

 

*  by all reports Allen has continued to work hard on his throwing mechanics, footwork & film study.  It's reasonable to assume the game will have further slowed down for him.  This optimism is warranted from the clear improvements he made in all these things pre & post injury.

 

*  and we will NOT be looking for a new coach & GM if Allen doesn't step up but the rest of the team gets better.  We'll be looking for a new QB like a lot of NFL teams.

 

One final point.  It's easy to be pessimistic about ANY rookie QB developing into a good NFL QB.  The odds are stacked against it happening.  So if your goal is to be "right" and claim you told us that Allen sucks but we didn't listen, then the odds are with you.  All other things being equal the chances that you're right and we're wrong are a lot greater then vice versa.  On this topic you have to adopt a baseball mindset and realize that most NFL QB's fail or never amount to much.  It's like how excellence is measured in baseball with a 300 hitting average being HOF worthy but in school only getting 30% of the answers rights get's you a big fat F.

 

Being optimistic in these situations is a choice.  But IMO it sure beats being pessimistic.  And it's more fun identifying things to give us reason to be excited & optimistic about then seeing everything through a prism that says Allen will never be a good NFL QB. 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Ronin said:

 

And either way, by my understanding the OL is now very good as are the WRs. 

 

So, if this season Allen doesn't step up his play to the requisite level and beginning to meet expectations, then McBeane absolutely need to be held accountable.  

 

If he doesn't, it's either his fault or it isn't.  If it's his fault, it's McBeane's fault.  If it's not his fault, as I'm sure will be the outcry if in fact it doesn't happen, then it's still McBeane's fault for not being able to either A, get it out of him, or B, not doing everything else that they could what was necessary to do so  

 

So we'll likely be looking for a new coach and GM if he doesn't step up.  

 

I'm excited, as I'm told that everything's now in place and corrected from last season so there's no need for any concern.   

 

Very good? At best, they’re improved. On paper. We won’t know much until the games start to mean something. Like Mike Tyson said, “Everybody has a plan. Until you get punched in the mouth.” 

[Ronin]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Who is saying everything is fixed?  The off season moves have improved the offense on paper.  That's all we know right now. 

 

The O-line now appears to be better ditto the WR's.  Again we'll know if it's true in September.  But why would any football fan not be optimistic that the Bills improved their offense in the off season?  The alternative is to believe they did not improve this unit or that it got worse. 

 

As for Allen, it's a reasonable expectation that he will be improved from last year because:

 

*  he will be taking almost all of the 1st team snaps in camp and during the preseason.  This alone will give him a better understanding of the offensive scheme and guys who will be playing.  it is also likely that we have a stability in the receiving group that we didn't have last season.

 

*  Dabold has now settled in and has had an entire off season to fine tune the offense to best fit Allen's strengths and hide his weaknesses. 

 

*  by all reports Allen has continued to work hard on his throwing mechanics, footwork & film study.  It's reasonable to assume the game will have further slowed down for him.  This optimism is warranted from the clear improvements he made in all these things pre & post injury.

 

*  and we will NOT be looking for a new coach & GM if Allen doesn't step up but the rest of the team gets better.  We'll be looking for a new QB like a lot of NFL teams.

 

One final point.  It's easy to be pessimistic about ANY rookie QB developing into a good NFL QB.  The odds are stacked against it happening.  So if your goal is to be "right" and claim you told us that Allen sucks but we didn't listen, then the odds are with you.  All other things being equal the chances that you're right and we're wrong are a lot greater then vice versa.  On this topic you have to adopt a baseball mindset and realize that most NFL QB's fail or never amount to much.  It's like how excellence is measured in baseball with a 300 hitting average being HOF worthy but in school only getting 30% of the answers rights get's you a big fat F.

 

Being optimistic in these situations is a choice.  But IMO it sure beats being pessimistic.  And it's more fun identifying things to give us reason to be excited & optimistic about then seeing everything through a prism that says Allen will never be a good NFL QB. 

 

To your points: 

 

Quote

Who is saying everything is fixed? 

 

A whole lot of people here have opined something akin to the notion that now we finally have a significantly upgraded OL and some real WRs.  Seems to me that was the primary if not sole issue on the team last season, that and the RBs, but we signed a 37-year old and drafted a Zay Jones-like small school prospect, so all's well now don't ya know.  

 

Quote

The O-line now appears to be better ditto the WR's. 

 

It doesn't appear that way to me.  Did you miss the facts that I've laid out about our OL?   Did you not do your own research and besides missing my detailed posts on the individual OL-men, not note that PFF has our new OL-men really not rated that much better than our old ones, particularly in pass-pro?   I mean if your research is limited to simple articles by journalists then perhaps that's an enormous difference between our takes.  

 

Most of our new OL-men were backups or marginal starters on HORRID offensive teams.  Jets, Skins, Raiders.  The ONLY exception is Morse, who has barely made it through half of his games the past two seasons and of the games he has played some being less than 100%.  Yet another major gamble  by McBeane.  Even if he manages to stay healthy, IMO that OL is only marginally if at all improved, and that with the typical half-season of work to even build ultimate chemistry.  If he gets hurt again, and he already is w/o contact, then I don't see much of an improvement whatsoever.  My approach to rebuilding that OL would have been altogether different, but backups from other teams and starters that weren't even impact players, again, besides Morse when he was actdually on the field, simply doesn't add up to a better OL, at least not significantly better and there's still the risk that it's not better at all.  

 

Why is that notion so far-fetched?  It shouldn't be.  

 

Quote

*  and we will NOT be looking for a new coach & GM if Allen doesn't step up but the rest of the team gets better.  We'll be looking for a new QB like a lot of NFL teams.

 

 

You couldn't be more wrong about that.  If you think that the fans and media are going to sit still if Allen busts I don't even know how to respond to that other than to say that that's ridiculous, there will be no second chances on a QB if Allen fails.  What, six or seven years to finally prove that they have it together?  Unlike so many here "The Process" rings completely hollow for me at this point.  This is a do-or-die year and if Allen does not ascend to at minimum average status this season, as a passer that is, then it's curtains for those guys.  No one's going to believe anything, particularly in lieu of aging key players w/o any notable replacements on offense or on the DL or Front-7 besides Edmunds.  The one thing that might give them another season is if Oliver really becomes the next Aaron Donald like so many here have preordained.  If Olive isn't a force out of the gate or at least by midseason the cries of incompetence, here in fact, LOL, are going to become deafening.  

 

LMAO, you've been here when things don't go as planned.  LOL, that's the most entertaining time here.  

 

With all of McBeane's risky small-school draft picks, if one or two, namely Allen and Oliver, don't step up bigtime, there'll be no defending that.  There's not even any real & concrete evidence that this team is moving in the right direction, and if Allen doesn't work out it won't be.  If Oliver doesn't live up to expectations then what's the proof on D, there is none except for an upgraded secondary which is all that McD seems to know.  

 

Quote

It's easy to be pessimistic about ANY rookie QB developing into a good NFL QB.  The odds are stacked against it happening.  So if your goal is to be "right" and claim you told us that Allen sucks but we didn't listen, then the odds are with you.

 

I could give a crap about being right.  Nothing, absolutely nothing, would make me more happy than to be 100% incorrect on Allen.  ... and Oliver.  

 

Quote

But why would any football fan not be optimistic that the Bills improved their offense in the off season?  The alternative is to believe they did not improve this unit or that it got worse. 

 

I've simply been watching and analyzing football for far too long to see things for something other than what they actually are.  The fact that so many people truly believe that a couple of new WRs that have rarely posted 100-yard games or been anything close to prolific, with good QB talent I might add, or that OL-men that were backups or starters that simply weren't very good on crappy offenses doesn't effectively counter reality, certainly not enough for me to heave reason in the dumpster.  Why the majority think that is beyond me.  I can see why the national media does, they can all just talk and say whatever they want to, be entirely wrong, and have jobs the next day, month, year(s).  There are absolutely no consequences for being wrong in the media.   They all live on to blather on another day.  

 

Otherwise, ask those same football "analysts" and journalists why most of them don't have the Bills posting a winning season or see Allen stepping up to the aforementioned (by you) level.  Seems to me that the only ones sold on the "optimism" in any sort of majority reside here and in other Bills forums.  

 

Quote

*  by all reports Allen has continued to work hard on his throwing mechanics, footwork & film study.  It's reasonable to assume the game will have further slowed down for him.  This optimism is warranted from the clear improvements he made in all these things pre & post injury.

 

LOL  Really? 

 

Yeah, and by all reports this time last year Peterman was a good bet to hold down the fort while Allen learned.  

 

Watkins was going to be a stud.  

 

Spiller was special.  

 

Lawson was a great pick, so was Ragland, remember, he was really a 1st-rounder, ... by all reports.  

 

Zay Jones was a phenom, again, by all reports.  

 

LOL  

 

BTW, I didn't think it was Allen's "throwing mechanics" that were an issue.  How does that help with reading Ds?  Or footwork?  Film study perhaps, to a degree, but watching and doing are entirely different things.  Perhaps you disagree there too.  

 

Seems too me that after OTAs the feedback wasn't nearly as optimistic as everyone had hoped.  That was not in pads, w/o no particular real pressure, no contact, etc.  

 

I guess I'd ask you why a QB that was essentially ranked worse than every QB in the league besides Rosen last season as a passer, we should be optimistic about making the kind of leap in play that QBs with his background simply have never made.  And no, Trubisky and Mahomes did not have the same background contrary to popular narratives.  It's absurd for anyone to assert that they did.  

 

I understand why, because our WRs and OL sucked, yeah, I get it, everything but primarily Allen.  I get it.  I do.  

 

Either way, I'm far from being alone on not expecting that kind of improvement from Allen, most people that aren't Bills fans are far from convinced.  

 

If I listened to "all reports" from the team I'd have been buying SB tickets somewhere along the line in anticipation.  

 

BTW, you did make valid points about Allen taking 1st-team reps and re: Daboll to some extent.  IMO Daboll was at least partially responsible for the offensive debacle last season as well, but more importantly, to what extent was he in on the decision-making re: Peterson?  I'm not sure we know that.  

 

Even so, it's going to take more than 1st-team reps in camps for Allen to improve, that alone is hardly cause for optimism, particularly given his shortcomings.  

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2019 by Ronin

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Ronin said:

 

To your points: 

 

 

A whole lot of people here have opined something akin to the notion that now we finally have a significantly upgraded OL and some real WRs.  Seems to me that was the primary if not sole issue on the team last season, that and the RBs, but we signed a 37-year old and drafted a Zay Jones-like small school prospect, so all's well now don't ya know.  

 

 

It doesn't appear that way to me.  Did you miss the facts that I've laid out about our OL?   Did you not do your own research and besides missing my detailed posts on the individual OL-men, not note that PFF has our new OL-men really not rated that much better than our old ones, particularly in pass-pro?   I mean if your research is limited to simple articles by journalists then perhaps that's an enormous difference between our takes.  

 

Most of our new OL-men were backups or marginal starters on HORRID offensive teams.  Jets, Skins, Raiders.  The ONLY exception is Morse, who has barely made it through half of his games the past two seasons and of the games he has played some being less than 100%.  Yet another major gamble  by McBeane.  Even if he manages to stay healthy, IMO that OL is only marginally if at all improved, and that with the typical half-season of work to even build ultimate chemistry.  If he gets hurt again, and he already is w/o contact, then I don't see much of an improvement whatsoever.  My approach to rebuilding that OL would have been altogether different, but backups from other teams and starters that weren't even impact players, again, besides Morse when he was actdually on the field, simply doesn't add up to a better OL, at least not significantly better and there's still the risk that it's not better at all.  

 

Why is that notion so far-fetched?  It shouldn't be.  

 

 

You couldn't be more wrong about that.  If you think that the fans and media are going to sit still if Allen busts I don't even know how to respond to that other than to say that that's ridiculous, there will be no second chances on a QB if Allen fails.  What, six or seven years to finally prove that they have it together?  Unlike so many here "The Process" rings completely hollow for me at this point.  This is a do-or-die year and if Allen does not ascend to at minimum average status this season, as a passer that is, then it's curtains for those guys.  No one's going to believe anything, particularly in lieu of aging key players w/o any notable replacements on offense or on the DL or Front-7 besides Edmunds.  The one thing that might give them another season is if Oliver really becomes the next Aaron Donald like so many here have preordained.  If Olive isn't a force out of the gate or at least by midseason the cries of incompetence, here in fact, LOL, are going to become deafening.  

 

LMAO, you've been here when things don't go as planned.  LOL, that's the most entertaining time here.  

 

With all of McBeane's risky small-school draft picks, if one or two, namely Allen and Oliver, don't step up bigtime, there'll be no defending that.  There's not even any real & concrete evidence that this team is moving in the right direction, and if Allen doesn't work out it won't be.  If Oliver doesn't live up to expectations then what's the proof on D, there is none except for an upgraded secondary which is all that McD seems to know.  

 

 

I could give a crap about being right.  Nothing, absolutely nothing, would make me more happy than to be 100% incorrect on Allen.  ... and Oliver.  

 

 

I've simply been watching and analyzing football for far too long to see things for something other than what they actually are.  The fact that so many people truly believe that a couple of new WRs that have rarely posted 100-yard games or been anything close to prolific, with good QB talent I might add, or that OL-men that were backups or starters that simply weren't very good on crappy offenses doesn't effectively counter reality, certainly not enough for me to heave reason in the dumpster.  Why the majority think that is beyond me.  I can see why the national media does, they can all just talk and say whatever they want to, be entirely wrong, and have jobs the next day, month, year(s).  There are absolutely no consequences for being wrong in the media.   They all live on to blather on another day.  

 

Otherwise, ask those same football "analysts" and journalists why most of them don't have the Bills posting a winning season or see Allen stepping up to the aforementioned (by you) level.  Seems to me that the only ones sold on the "optimism" in any sort of majority reside here and in other Bills forums.  

 

 

LOL  Really? 

 

Yeah, and by all reports this time last year Peterman was a good bet to hold down the fort while Allen learned.  

 

Watkins was going to be a stud.  

 

Spiller was special.  

 

Lawson was a great pick, so was Ragland, remember, he was really a 1st-rounder, ... by all reports.  

 

Zay Jones was a phenom, again, by all reports.  

 

LOL  

 

BTW, I didn't think it was Allen's "throwing mechanics" that were an issue.  How does that help with reading Ds?  Or footwork?  Film study perhaps, to a degree, but watching and doing are entirely different things.  Perhaps you disagree there too.  

 

Seems too me that after OTAs the feedback wasn't nearly as optimistic as everyone had hoped.  That was not in pads, w/o no particular real pressure, no contact, etc.  

 

I guess I'd ask you why a QB that was essentially ranked worse than every QB in the league besides Rosen last season as a passer, we should be optimistic about making the kind of leap in play that QBs with his background simply have never made.  And no, Trubisky and Mahomes did not have the same background contrary to popular narratives.  It's absurd for anyone to assert that they did.  

 

I understand why, because our WRs and OL sucked, yeah, I get it, everything but primarily Allen.  I get it.  I do.  

 

Either way, I'm far from being alone on not expecting that kind of improvement from Allen, most people that aren't Bills fans are far from convinced.  

 

If I listened to "all reports" from the team I'd have been buying SB tickets somewhere along the line in anticipation.  

 

BTW, you did make valid points about Allen taking 1st-team reps and re: Daboll to some extent.  IMO Daboll was at least partially responsible for the offensive debacle last season as well, but more importantly, to what extent was he in on the decision-making re: Peterson?  I'm not sure we know that.  

 

Even so, it's going to take more than 1st-team reps in camps for Allen to improve, that alone is hardly cause for optimism, particularly given his shortcomings.  

 

 

 

Who do you think is horribler?  Ed Oliver or Josh Allen?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

12 hours ago, NoSaint said:

I’ll say guys that talk smack about the last team coming in are likely to do the same going out. 

 

 

As for talent... he is a good player but at one of our qbs weak points. If josh takes a big step, he’s a great resource. If not, he could be a sore spot. ‘‘Tis the risk of a pickup like this. Clay never got utilized by Tyrod in our quest to throw between the hashes. Josh isn’t tyrod though.

 

Lets hope not, because if the first bit about more tweets to come and the second bit downside risk on Allen intersect we might see a vocal critic. Interesting to watch 

[Ronin]

25 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Who do you think is horribler?  Ed Oliver or Josh Allen?

 

I think that neither were good draft picks, Allen at 7th or Oliver at 9th.  I'd have made different picks.  In fact, I'd have had Wynn, Hilliard, and Risner on our OL right now and Drew Lock at QB, instead of those two for the same picks and I'd have gotten a couple of others too.  

 

Not sure how to answer your loaded question otherwise.  But thanks for playing.  

 

 

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

I think that neither were good draft picks, Allen at 7th or Oliver at 9th.  I'd have made different picks.  In fact, I'd have had Wynn, Hilliard, and Risner on our OL right now and Drew Lock at QB, instead of those two for the same picks and I'd have gotten a couple of others too.  

 

Not sure how to answer your loaded question otherwise.  But thanks for playing.  

 

 

Thanks for going firmly on the record. I’m not here too say you are wrong. We will see. I hope you are wrong. And thank you! 

[Ronin]

7 minutes ago, Augie said:

Thanks for going firmly on the record. I’m not here too say you are wrong. We will see. I hope you are wrong. And thank you! 

 

Believe me, I hope I'm wrong too.  

 

Discussing what one sees and believes isn't necessarily what one wishes, contrary to the opinions of some here that seem to know more about posters than the posters themselves. Kind of like God.  

[CSBill]

Or, just hating the Cowboys?

[4merper4mer]

6 hours ago, Ronin said:

 

Believe me, I hope I'm wrong too.  

 

Discussing what one sees and believes isn't necessarily what one wishes, contrary to the opinions of some here that seem to know more about posters than the posters themselves. Kind of like God.  

 

Keep acting like that is what you're doing but make sure to also keep mixing in extreme adjectives like horrible and atrocious.  Also keep up the good work on setting standards like a QB seeing every open receiver on every play and grading using phrases like "miles to go before being below average".

 

You're pretty much on the record as being pro Tremaine Edmunds.  I am too.  That said it would be easy to go through his film last year and do the same crap you're doing with Allen's.  

[K-9]

10 hours ago, Ronin said:

 

To your points: 

 

 

A whole lot of people here have opined something akin to the notion that now we finally have a significantly upgraded OL and some real WRs.  Seems to me that was the primary if not sole issue on the team last season, that and the RBs, but we signed a 37-year old and drafted a Zay Jones-like small school prospect, so all's well now don't ya know.  

 

 

It doesn't appear that way to me.  Did you miss the facts that I've laid out about our OL?   Did you not do your own research and besides missing my detailed posts on the individual OL-men, not note that PFF has our new OL-men really not rated that much better than our old ones, particularly in pass-pro?   I mean if your research is limited to simple articles by journalists then perhaps that's an enormous difference between our takes.  

 

Most of our new OL-men were backups or marginal starters on HORRID offensive teams.  Jets, Skins, Raiders.  The ONLY exception is Morse, who has barely made it through half of his games the past two seasons and of the games he has played some being less than 100%.  Yet another major gamble  by McBeane.  Even if he manages to stay healthy, IMO that OL is only marginally if at all improved, and that with the typical half-season of work to even build ultimate chemistry.  If he gets hurt again, and he already is w/o contact, then I don't see much of an improvement whatsoever.  My approach to rebuilding that OL would have been altogether different, but backups from other teams and starters that weren't even impact players, again, besides Morse when he was actdually on the field, simply doesn't add up to a better OL, at least not significantly better and there's still the risk that it's not better at all.  

 

Why is that notion so far-fetched?  It shouldn't be.  

 

 

You couldn't be more wrong about that.  If you think that the fans and media are going to sit still if Allen busts I don't even know how to respond to that other than to say that that's ridiculous, there will be no second chances on a QB if Allen fails.  What, six or seven years to finally prove that they have it together?  Unlike so many here "The Process" rings completely hollow for me at this point.  This is a do-or-die year and if Allen does not ascend to at minimum average status this season, as a passer that is, then it's curtains for those guys.  No one's going to believe anything, particularly in lieu of aging key players w/o any notable replacements on offense or on the DL or Front-7 besides Edmunds.  The one thing that might give them another season is if Oliver really becomes the next Aaron Donald like so many here have preordained.  If Olive isn't a force out of the gate or at least by midseason the cries of incompetence, here in fact, LOL, are going to become deafening.  

 

LMAO, you've been here when things don't go as planned.  LOL, that's the most entertaining time here.  

 

With all of McBeane's risky small-school draft picks, if one or two, namely Allen and Oliver, don't step up bigtime, there'll be no defending that.  There's not even any real & concrete evidence that this team is moving in the right direction, and if Allen doesn't work out it won't be.  If Oliver doesn't live up to expectations then what's the proof on D, there is none except for an upgraded secondary which is all that McD seems to know.  

 

 

I could give a crap about being right.  Nothing, absolutely nothing, would make me more happy than to be 100% incorrect on Allen.  ... and Oliver.  

 

 

I've simply been watching and analyzing football for far too long to see things for something other than what they actually are.  The fact that so many people truly believe that a couple of new WRs that have rarely posted 100-yard games or been anything close to prolific, with good QB talent I might add, or that OL-men that were backups or starters that simply weren't very good on crappy offenses doesn't effectively counter reality, certainly not enough for me to heave reason in the dumpster.  Why the majority think that is beyond me.  I can see why the national media does, they can all just talk and say whatever they want to, be entirely wrong, and have jobs the next day, month, year(s).  There are absolutely no consequences for being wrong in the media.   They all live on to blather on another day.  

 

Otherwise, ask those same football "analysts" and journalists why most of them don't have the Bills posting a winning season or see Allen stepping up to the aforementioned (by you) level.  Seems to me that the only ones sold on the "optimism" in any sort of majority reside here and in other Bills forums.  

 

 

LOL  Really? 

 

Yeah, and by all reports this time last year Peterman was a good bet to hold down the fort while Allen learned.  

 

Watkins was going to be a stud.  

 

Spiller was special.  

 

Lawson was a great pick, so was Ragland, remember, he was really a 1st-rounder, ... by all reports.  

 

Zay Jones was a phenom, again, by all reports.  

 

LOL  

 

BTW, I didn't think it was Allen's "throwing mechanics" that were an issue.  How does that help with reading Ds?  Or footwork?  Film study perhaps, to a degree, but watching and doing are entirely different things.  Perhaps you disagree there too.  

 

Seems too me that after OTAs the feedback wasn't nearly as optimistic as everyone had hoped.  That was not in pads, w/o no particular real pressure, no contact, etc.  

 

I guess I'd ask you why a QB that was essentially ranked worse than every QB in the league besides Rosen last season as a passer, we should be optimistic about making the kind of leap in play that QBs with his background simply have never made.  And no, Trubisky and Mahomes did not have the same background contrary to popular narratives.  It's absurd for anyone to assert that they did.  

 

I understand why, because our WRs and OL sucked, yeah, I get it, everything but primarily Allen.  I get it.  I do.  

 

Either way, I'm far from being alone on not expecting that kind of improvement from Allen, most people that aren't Bills fans are far from convinced.  

 

If I listened to "all reports" from the team I'd have been buying SB tickets somewhere along the line in anticipation.  

 

BTW, you did make valid points about Allen taking 1st-team reps and re: Daboll to some extent.  IMO Daboll was at least partially responsible for the offensive debacle last season as well, but more importantly, to what extent was he in on the decision-making re: Peterson?  I'm not sure we know that.  

 

Even so, it's going to take more than 1st-team reps in camps for Allen to improve, that alone is hardly cause for optimism, particularly given his shortcomings.  

 

 

 

Are you Jerry Sullivan?

[formerlyofCtown]

23 hours ago, Mark80 said:

 

Must be nice to have the best offensive line in football and two extra years of experience.  I'd put any amount down on Allen having more yards and TDs than Prescott had in his 2nd year, barring injury of course.

 

23 hours ago, Mark80 said:

 

Must be nice to have the best offensive line in football and two extra years of experience.  I'd put any amount down on Allen having more yards and TDs than Prescott had in his 2nd year, barring injury of course.

Prescott is top shelf mediocre.  That is still mediocre though.  

[Big Turk]

On 6/22/2019 at 7:42 PM, Lafromboise said:

 

Starts in tthe beginging. And also the past tweets talking about how buffalos facilities "***** on dallas".  Must like what he feels.

 

Probably more than he is loving you misspelling his name.

Edited June 24, 2019 by matter2003

[Ronin]

3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

 

Keep acting like that is what you're doing but make sure to also keep mixing in extreme adjectives like horrible and atrocious.  Also keep up the good work on setting standards like a QB seeing every open receiver on every play and grading using phrases like "miles to go before being below average".

 

You're pretty much on the record as being pro Tremaine Edmunds.  I am too.  That said it would be easy to go through his film last year and do the same crap you're doing with Allen's.  

 

It is what I'm doing, I'm sorry that you see it otherwise.  I'm also sorry that it seems to affect you so personally.  That's unfortunate.  

 

I'm huge on Edmunds.  And yes, I could.  Unfortunately for your argument I'm not running around talking about him as if he's headed for all-pro status this or next season while slamming anyone that says something to the contrary, am I now.  

 

Edmunds didn't come into the league with anywhere near the risks that Allen did.  He was also the youngest player in the league last season and still played admirably.  

 

He also wasn't one of the worst few LBs in the league last season now, was he?  

 

The bottom line is quite simple.  McD inherited a team that ranked 10th and 12th in scoring under Ryan, who sucked, and 15th and 16th in scoring D in the two seasons prior to his arrival.  Under him the offense has ranked 22nd and 30th, having descended as such, and the D has ranked 18th in scoring D.  If that offense doesn't get well into the teens this season I don't see how he can possibly remain on.  If that doesn't happen it'll be all but entirely because Allen doesn't turn into the QB that so many here are talking about, not because Edmunds didn't step up. 

 

 

13 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

*  and we will NOT be looking for a new coach & GM if Allen doesn't step up but the rest of the team gets better.  We'll be looking for a new QB like a lot of NFL teams.

 

BTW, see the post above.  

 

And to add some additional perspective here, the offense ranked both 30th in yards as well as scoring.  The last time that we had such low offensive rankings was under Jauron over a decade ago.  In the six seasons prior to McD's arrival, the team averaged 16th in scoring O, with no QBs worthy of note.  Taylor, Orton, Manuel, and Fitz.   

 

Even this season, if Allen can't outdo them as a 7th overall pick, well, that'll spell it out pretty well.  

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2019 by Ronin