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Zay Jones is Bills' most likely player to emerge on offense

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On 6/11/2019 at 11:32 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Meh.  I heard the same thing posted here by too many to count about Whaley/Nix.

 

Turns out that....yes, they had no clue.

 

And the fans knew all along who the correct picks were right?  Same fans slammin the Hughes and Shady trades probably.   It's complete b.s. 

 

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On 6/11/2019 at 7:19 PM, Ronin said:

 

I wouldn't say far too many.  There have been a bunch, but there have been a lot more that simply haven't lived up to their draft hype.   One notable one, Torell Troup.  

 

There are many big-school DL-men that never live up, the odds of the small school ones isn't greater.  

 

Besides, this notion that because other players of similar backgrounds did something is hardly a reason as to why another player will or won't.  

 

My point is simply this, if a player like Oliver struggles against  OL-men that don't even have a legitimate chance of getting drafted, and particularly against double-teams as is the knock on him, that can't possibly be an indicator that he'll succeed and do better against NFL caliber OL-men.  Who would argue that it would, but that seems to be your argument.  

 

We'll see, perhaps "coaching" or whatever will make the difference, as I said, if I had a grand, I wouldn't bet it on the fact that it will happen.  If others want to take personal offense at that, so be it.  Doesn't bother me.  I'm simply challenging narratives.  

 

Remember the narratives on Lawson and Ragland.  All we heard was how Ragland should have been a 1st-rounder and what a steal we got.  Yeah, a real steal.  Anyone that knows college ball knows that Bama puts out more system players that never perform to expectations in the NFL than quite perhaps any other school.  Just sayin'.  

 

That's what happens when you have a college team chock full of four and five star recruits, overall you're so much better than the other schools simply because you're solid at every single position including depth.  Doesn't necessarily mean that they're all independently great.  That was also the case with John McCargo.  I said at the time of his drafting that A, his numbers weren't as impressive as they sounded, but because of the talent on his DL, particularly the DEs, Mario Williams and Manny Lawson, who allowed McCargo to play better, but he never posted great numbers at all.  I never understood why he was considered a top prospect.  

 

It's wise to consider those things before drafting a player.   I do, I have no idea why our front office never has.  

 

As to Oliver, we'll see.  I hope I'm off.  Either way, Beane & McD aren't going to survive here unless Allen makes a massive leap this season into the realm of the top-15 anyway.  

 

Agreed about bama players.  

 

So bama players aren’t good enough for the league because they just feed off each other and make each other look better than they are because teams have account for so many talented players, everyone has a chance to shine.  What happens when you’re easily the best player on your team and in your conference?  Teams game plan to stop you and sometimes only you. Sure, the opposition is less talented than the teams bama is playing but your teammates aren’t nearly as talented either.  So the opposition schemes to stop you.....and your teammates suck as bad as your talentless opposition.  So it’s up to you to be the difference maker and beat the scheme with one thing.  Your talent and ability.  Imo, most players that can dominate for several seasons while being the focal point of the oppositions game plan every week have a shot to succeed. 

 

 I agree that playing vs lesser competition can make players look better than they are, I also believe that special players can be found at any school.  It takes some players longer to develop the strength needed to be an elite talent.  Some guys are big and fast in HS.  Some guys are just fast in HS and don’t get recruited by the big schools because they’re too slight....and get the proper weight training  when they get to college and blossom.  Some big and fast guys have only played football for a year or so and have no idea how to play the game.  They get offered by a small school, play the game and get coached for 4 more years.  All of a sudden they’re great players.  There are just so many variables to success.  I think you’re pigeon holing small school players.  Meanwhile also saying that big school players only succeed because they are playing along side other talented players......who aren’t really that talented because once they get to the nfl they aren’t good.  I don’t get it.

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On 6/7/2019 at 11:56 AM, NewCastleFanBills said:

Between Zay, Foster and Sills we may have to many good WRs and not enough spots.

Sills has to actually make the 53 ,first

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, NewEra said:

Agreed about bama players.  

 

So bama players aren’t good enough for the league because they just feed off each other and make each other look better than they are because teams have account for so many talented players, everyone has a chance to shine.  What happens when you’re easily the best player on your team and in your conference?  Teams game plan to stop you and sometimes only you. Sure, the opposition is less talented than the teams bama is playing but your teammates aren’t nearly as talented either.  So the opposition schemes to stop you.....and your teammates suck as bad as your talentless opposition.  So it’s up to you to be the difference maker and beat the scheme with one thing.  Your talent and ability.  Imo, most players that can dominate for several seasons while being the focal point of the oppositions game plan every week have a shot to succeed. 

 

 I agree that playing vs lesser competition can make players look better than they are, I also believe that special players can be found at any school.  It takes some players longer to develop the strength needed to be an elite talent.  Some guys are big and fast in HS.  Some guys are just fast in HS and don’t get recruited by the big schools because they’re too slight....and get the proper weight training  when they get to college and blossom.  Some big and fast guys have only played football for a year or so and have no idea how to play the game.  They get offered by a small school, play the game and get coached for 4 more years.  All of a sudden they’re great players.  There are just so many variables to success.  I think you’re pigeon holing small school players.  Meanwhile also saying that big school players only succeed because they are playing along side other talented players......who aren’t really that talented because once they get to the nfl they aren’t good.  I don’t get it.

 

Well, you're putting words in my mouth.  Those actually weren't my points exactly.  

 

As to Bama players, they have a history of LBs playing lights-out at Bama but sucking in the NFL.  They have placed some great DL-men.  RBs have been a similar issue to LBs.  You have to look at the positions, history, etc.  A lot of work goes into it, this isn't something you glean after a few moments of googling.  Also, a historical knowledge builds up if you do it long enough.  

 

As to the small school, again, this is merely one thing to look at and consider, but I'll say it again and use Oliver as an example.  It's a big mistake to look at how great he was against a team like Rice without any linemen on the team that even remotely have a legitimate shot in the NFL while ignoring what I call the "lowlight" reels.  For example, against Texas Tech, and I've pointed this out already, Oliver went up against a lineman named Stawarz, who's finished now, he won't play in the NFL and never had a legitimate shot at it.  On numerous plays in that game Stawarz held Oliver up one-on-one easily.  No need to get into a prolonged discussion of that, and that's hardly the single example.  But what I'm saying, is that upon seeing that and reviewing that, as any good draft analyst should have (did our team?), it should at least cause a little pause from the narrative, I mean wouldn't you think.  

 

So point being, obviously in a vacuum the "small school" element shouldn't be considered as the end-all-to-be-all indicator, but when, as in Oliver's case, he didn't face a single OL-man that was going to the NFL it should certainly be considered, and I would have looked at all the plays, not just highlights, as I always do.  If others, including the professional draft guys and scouts, don't do so, then it's at their and their team's own risk.  

 

Similarly, when Jones does nothing significant for three seasons at EC, unlike his predecessor Justin Hardy (on Atlanta), but then in his Sr. season lights up crap teams, usually in garbage time, often in 4/5 WR sets in systems that simply aren't used in the NFL, but on top of that merely amasses production against the worst DBs in college ball, and just like the OL-men that Oliver has faced, then one should consider that.  There are a gazillion receivers from small schools, even more from less-than FCS teams, that light up their stats but simply aren't NFL caliber.  

 

Despite people paying lipservice to the notion that the leap from college to pro ball is huge, I'm not sure that they realize exactly how great that leap is.  When you funnel thousands of football players from college down to a couple hundred in the draft, then factor in that most of those won't succeed in the NFL, it should paint a pretty clear picture of that leap.  

 

Also, this narrative, now convenient for Jones, that it takes three seasons for a WR to develop, is nonsense.  Look at Jones' draft peers, most of whom were behind him. 6 WRs drafted that season have more yards than he has and five of those players were drafted after him, three in the 3rd-round and one in the 4th.  

 

And remember Mike Williams from Clemson, drafted in the top-10?  He's been a bust.  Which reminds me, Clemson's offensive skill-position players typically don't step up either.  I'm not sure that as Bills fans we really need to be reminded of that.  

 

 

Edited by Ronin

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29 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

Well, you're putting words in my mouth.  Those actually weren't my points exactly.  

 

As to Bama players, they have a history of LBs playing lights-out at Bama but sucking in the NFL.  They have placed some great DL-men.  RBs have been a similar issue to LBs.  You have to look at the positions, history, etc.  A lot of work goes into it, this isn't something you glean after a few moments of googling.  Also, a historical knowledge builds up if you do it long enough.  

 

As to the small school, again, this is merely one thing to look at and consider, but I'll say it again and use Oliver as an example.  It's a big mistake to look at how great he was against a team like Rice without any linemen on the team that even remotely have a legitimate shot in the NFL while ignoring what I call the "lowlight" reels.  For example, against Texas Tech, and I've pointed this out already, Oliver went up against a lineman named Stawarz, who's finished now, he won't play in the NFL and never had a legitimate shot at it.  On numerous plays in that game Stawarz held Oliver up one-on-one easily.  No need to get into a prolonged discussion of that, and that's hardly the single example.  But what I'm saying, is that upon seeing that and reviewing that, as any good draft analyst should have (did our team?), it should at least cause a little pause from the narrative, I mean wouldn't you think.  

 

So point being, obviously in a vacuum the "small school" element shouldn't be considered as the end-all-to-be-all indicator, but when, as in Oliver's case, he didn't face a single OL-man that was going to the NFL it should certainly be considered, and I would have looked at all the plays, not just highlights, as I always do.  If others, including the professional draft guys and scouts, don't do so, then it's at their and their team's own risk.  

 

Similarly, when Jones does nothing significant for three seasons at EC, unlike his predecessor Justin Hardy (on Atlanta), but then in his Sr. season lights up crap teams, usually in garbage time, often in 4/5 WR sets in systems that simply aren't used in the NFL, but on top of that merely amasses production against the worst DBs in college ball, and just like the OL-men that Oliver has faced, then one should consider that.  There are a gazillion receivers from small schools, even more from less-than FCS teams, that light up their stats but simply aren't NFL caliber.  

 

Despite people paying lipservice to the notion that the leap from college to pro ball is huge, I'm not sure that they realize exactly how great that leap is.  When you funnel thousands of football players from college down to a couple hundred in the draft, then factor in that most of those won't succeed in the NFL, it should paint a pretty clear picture of that leap.  

 

Also, this narrative, now convenient for Jones, that it takes three seasons for a WR to develop, is nonsense.  Look at Jones' draft peers, most of whom were behind him. 6 WRs drafted that season have more yards than he has and five of those players were drafted after him, three in the 3rd-round and one in the 4th.  

 

And remember Mike Williams from Clemson, drafted in the top-10?  He's been a bust.  Which reminds me, Clemson's offensive skill-position players typically don't step up either.  I'm not sure that as Bills fans we really need to be reminded of that.  

 

 

Well put.  On a couple notes though.  I wouldn’t say Zay didn’t do anything significant for 3 seasons.  Must a wr catch 158 balls and 10 TDs to be significant?  As a junior, 98 catches and 80+ as a sophomore isn’t too shabby imo.  

 

Also regarding WRs taking 3 years to develop....:everyone is different.  For every WR in the nfl is a different person.  Not just athletically, but mentally.  Who did we have to help Zay along the way?  He watched Kevin Benjamin for 1.5 season and Jordan Matthews for .5 seasons prepare as professionals. He had no one to mentor him.  Not every you WR needs mentoring, but in many cases, good vets have a profound effect on a young player.  Juju had HOFers Big Ben throwing to him and AB to mentor him and just be there for him to watch.  To see how he prepares.  It matters.  I’m not saying Zay would be = to juju after two years, as every kid is different, but I promise you, We wouldn’t be talking about Juju being the next big thing after two years with our QBs, OL and passing offense.  

 

Regarding oliver.  Do you think our scouts and gms watched Oliver’s game tapes?  Just highlights?  Do you think all the analysts that pegged him a top 10 pick watched his game tape?  Just highlights?  

 

Regarding Mike Williams, do you remember Deandre Hopkins?  

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, NewEra said:

Well put.  On a couple notes though.  I wouldn’t say Zay didn’t do anything significant for 3 seasons.  Must a wr catch 158 balls and 10 TDs to be significant?  As a junior, 98 catches and 80+ as a sophomore isn’t too shabby imo.  

 

Also regarding WRs taking 3 years to develop....:everyone is different.  For every WR in the nfl is a different person.  Not just athletically, but mentally.  Who did we have to help Zay along the way?  He watched Kevin Benjamin for 1.5 season and Jordan Matthews for .5 seasons prepare as professionals. He had no one to mentor him.  Not every you WR needs mentoring, but in many cases, good vets have a profound effect on a young player.  Juju had HOFers Big Ben throwing to him and AB to mentor him and just be there for him to watch.  To see how he prepares.  It matters.  I’m not saying Zay would be = to juju after two years, as every kid is different, but I promise you, We wouldn’t be talking about Juju being the next big thing after two years with our QBs, OL and passing offense.  

 

Regarding oliver.  Do you think our scouts and gms watched Oliver’s game tapes?  Just highlights?  Do you think all the analysts that pegged him a top 10 pick watched his game tape?  Just highlights?  

 

Regarding Mike Williams, do you remember Deandre Hopkins?  

 

As to what Jones did at EC in his first three seasons, but you have to consider that he was at EC.  At OSU, Miami, Bama, Clemson, ND, etc., those numbers would have been great.  

 

But contrasted with what Hardy did it's relatively insignificant.  Here are Hardy's numbers, as I've said, three of Hardy's seasons were all better, individually, than all three of Jones' first seasons.  This is entirely relevant when you consider how Hardy's played in the NFL coupled with the things I've pointed out that we've been discussing. 

 

<a href="https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/justin-hardy-1.html">

 

One also has to be highly concerned, and it has ramifications, that Jones simply didn't convert yards and catches to points.  I mean you would think that his record-breaking season wouldn't have ranked near the bottom in terms of point production, namely the goal in football.  And why it didn't definitely should be/have-been looked at.  His senior season, only one game w/ more than 1 TD, a 2 TD performance against Navy.  Hardly impressive.  In five games, three of which were against the only power-5 teams he played, a combined 57 catches for 508 yards and 0 TDs.  That's not good.  

 

As to the three years, yes, everyone is different, but my point was that it obviously does not take, as a rule, as a narrative has been formed here, 3 years for a WR to develop, at least not to the extent that he's a viable contributing WR and #1.  Hell, even last year's draft produced 9 WRs that produced more yards in their rookies season than Jones did, 7 of whom were drafted after where Jones was, three of which were on day 3.  11 posted equal to or more TDs than Jones did in his rookie season.  

 

Even more than that, three from last year's draft, the one after Jones, had more yards in their rookie seasons than Jones had in his second season.  Three more came within 100-yards of him.  Of those 6, four were drafted after where Jones was.  Let's face it, he wasn't worth the 37th overall.  The team botched.  

 

I can't tell you what our team's people watched and saw or didn't see.  I can tell you that I don't think that too many people analyze things like I do, much of which you aren't even aware of.  

 

Regarding Mike Williams, do you remember Deandre Hopkins?  

 

Why wouldn't I remember him?   He's still in the league.  

 

I see absolutely no comparison however.  Hopkins put up more yards in his rookie season than Williams has in both of his first two seasons combined.  Williams will have to put up over 2,700 receiving yards this season if he's going to match Hopkins' first-three-year total.  There's no serious person out there that will tell you that Williams was worth the 7th overall pick.  No one can argue that Hopkins had a better QB either.  Rivers is far more seasoned than Watson.  

 

In fact, Houston would have been better off having taken McCaffrey, taken the pick after Williams.  He's got exactly twice as many receiving yards, as a RB, than Williams has, and one more receiving TD on top of nearly just as many rushing TDs and just as many yards rushing.  Hell, Jones has outperformed Williams.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ronin

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3 hours ago, Ronin said:

 

As to what Jones did at EC in his first three seasons, but you have to consider that he was at EC.  At OSU, Miami, Bama, Clemson, ND, etc., those numbers would have been great.  

 

But contrasted with what Hardy did it's relatively insignificant.  Here are Hardy's numbers, as I've said, three of Hardy's seasons were all better, individually, than all three of Jones' first seasons.  This is entirely relevant when you consider how Hardy's played in the NFL coupled with the things I've pointed out that we've been discussing. 

 

<a href="https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/justin-hardy-1.html">

 

One also has to be highly concerned, and it has ramifications, that Jones simply didn't convert yards and catches to points.  I mean you would think that his record-breaking season wouldn't have ranked near the bottom in terms of point production, namely the goal in football.  And why it didn't definitely should be/have-been looked at.  His senior season, only one game w/ more than 1 TD, a 2 TD performance against Navy.  Hardly impressive.  In five games, three of which were against the only power-5 teams he played, a combined 57 catches for 508 yards and 0 TDs.  That's not good.  

 

As to the three years, yes, everyone is different, but my point was that it obviously does not take, as a rule, as a narrative has been formed here, 3 years for a WR to develop, at least not to the extent that he's a viable contributing WR and #1.  Hell, even last year's draft produced 9 WRs that produced more yards in their rookies season than Jones did, 7 of whom were drafted after where Jones was, three of which were on day 3.  11 posted equal to or more TDs than Jones did in his rookie season.  

 

Even more than that, three from last year's draft, the one after Jones, had more yards in their rookie seasons than Jones had in his second season.  Three more came within 100-yards of him.  Of those 6, four were drafted after where Jones was.  Let's face it, he wasn't worth the 37th overall.  The team botched.  

 

I can't tell you what our team's people watched and saw or didn't see.  I can tell you that I don't think that too many people analyze things like I do, much of which you aren't even aware of.  

 

Regarding Mike Williams, do you remember Deandre Hopkins?  

 

Why wouldn't I remember him?   He's still in the league.  

 

I see absolutely no comparison however.  Hopkins put up more yards in his rookie season than Williams has in both of his first two seasons combined.  Williams will have to put up over 2,700 receiving yards this season if he's going to match Hopkins' first-three-year total.  There's no serious person out there that will tell you that Williams was worth the 7th overall pick.  No one can argue that Hopkins had a better QB either.  Rivers is far more seasoned than Watson.  

 

In fact, Houston would have been better off having taken McCaffrey, taken the pick after Williams.  He's got exactly twice as many receiving yards, as a RB, than Williams has, and one more receiving TD on top of nearly just as many rushing TDs and just as many yards rushing.  Hell, Jones has outperformed Williams.  

 

 

 

 

Mike Williams:  completely comparable in context.

 “And remember Mike Williams from Clemson, drafted in the top-10?  He's been a bust.  Which reminds me, Clemson's offensive skill-position players typically don't step up either.  I'm not sure that as Bills fans we really need to be reminded of that.”  Deandre Hopkins and Adam Humphries have stepped it up.  Mike Williams, who I believe was waaaaay over drafted, missed TC and 6 games his rookie year.  Last year he caught 10 TDs and was playing behind 2 11mill+ a year WRs.  Before we call him a bust.  Let him play his third season.  Last year I thought he was effective while not living up to his draft position. He was drafted to score TDs.  He did that.  They have Keenan Allen and Melvin. Gordon to move the chains.  His context in this convo had to do with players excelling in college due to playing for great teams loaded with talent that allowed them to reap the benefits of playing with great talent.  Hopkins was in the same exact position imo.

 

You talk about rivers and Watson being Williams and Hopkins QBs.....who did Zay have throwing him the ball the last 2 seasons?  You really are playing both sides of the fence.  You’ll word things to seem like you aren’t, but you most definitely are.

 

Comparing him to mccaffery is just stupid btw.  You think he’d put up those numbers in SD?  Seriously, I’d love to hear the answer to this.  

 

Ill read your your comment and bow out.  I think you’re very knowledgeable about the subject. I just think you’re being very matter of fact.  Very black and white in a subject that is very grey.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, NewEra said:

 

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Mike Williams:  completely comparable in context.

 “Andmember Mike Williams from Clemson, drafted in the top-10?  He's been a bust.  Which reminds me, Clemson's offensive skill-position players typically don't step up either.  I'm not sure that as Bills fans we really need to be reminded of that.”  Deandre Hopkins and Adam Humphries have stepped it up.  Mike Williams, who I believe was waaaaay over drafted, missed TC and 6 games his rookie year.  Last year he caught 10 TDs and was playing behind 2 11mill+ a year WRs.  Before we call him a bust.  Let him play his third season.  Last year I thought he was effective while not living up to his draft position. He was drafted to score TDs.  He did that.  They have Keenan Allen and Melvin. Gordon to move the chains.  His context in this convo had to do with players excelling in college due to playing for great teams loaded with talent that allowed them to reap the benefits of playing with great talent.  Hopkins was in the same exact position imo.

 

You talk about rivers and Watson being Williams and Hopkins QBs.....who did Zay have throwing him the ball the last 2 seasons?  You really are playing both sides of the fence.  You’ll word things to seem like you aren’t, but you most definitely are.

 

Comparing him to mccaffery is just stupid btw.  You think he’d put up those numbers in SD?  Seriously, I’d love to hear the answer to this.  

 

Ill read your your comment and bow out.  I think you’re very knowledgeable about the subject. I just think you’re being very matter of fact.  Very black and white in a subject that is very grey.  

 

You're using exceptions.  I didn't say categorically about Clemson offensive SP players, I said typically.  Spiller and Watkins are two that come to mind.  

 

Here's a list however;  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=2010&year_max=2019&draft_round_min=1&draft_round_max=3&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&pick_type=overall&pos[]=qb&pos[]=rb&pos[]=wr&pos[]=te&college_id=clemson&conference=any&show=all&order_by=default

 

As you can see, over the past ten drafts, 6 Clemson offensive skill-position players have been drafted in rounds 1-3, five of them in round 1, four of them among the first 12 picks.  Only 2 of the 6 have worked out.  So yes, typically.  You can always find exceptions, I pay little credence to exceptions in analyzing.  

 

I don't think anyone would spend the 7th overall, or even close, on Williams again seeing what they've seen.  

 

So there's that.  

 

Your assertion/implication that they didn't need Williams because they have Gordon and Allen is what's ridiculous.  So with Hill and Hunt, why did Kelce have so many yards?  Or how about Woods & Cooks with Gurley?  Makes no sense.  You always  make full use of all of your options.  It's a ridiculous proposition to assert otherwise.  Same for Pitt and Smith-Shuster and Brown, or Minnesota and Thielen and Diggs.  

 

As to Jones, he wasn't in on the comparison.  I think Jones' play, or lack thereof, speaks for itself.  I merely entered him into the equation to show Williams has done relative to a WR that's also massively underachieved yet still w/o the expecations coming in.  

 

As to McCaffrey, doesn't matter, point being that they could have taken McCaffrey and done better, a RB.  Doesn't say much for Williams, does it?  Short answer, no, no it doesn't.  Williams has played in 26 games and averaged fewer than 30 ypg receiving.  McCaffrey's averaged over 47 ypg receiving in 32 games.  

 

And please, you're telling me that if SD had the opportunity right now to swap out McCaffrey for Williams that they wouldn't do it?  Hell, I'd do that on McCaffrey's receiving alone.  Doesn't say much for a wide receiver's numbers when a RB outperforms him, does it.  

 

In fact, 15 players, or half-a-round, from Williams' draft, have more receiving yards than he has.  Of those 15, 7 are WRs, 4 are TEs, and the other 4 are RBs.  Among them are five 3rds, two 4ths, and a 5th rounder.   20 players from that draft have more receptions than Williams.  

 

I figured that McCaffrey would be a Roger Craig type, good but not great rusher but also a great receiver OOTB, figuring that he'd settle in at ~ 1,600 or so in YFS.  800-1,000 (max) rushing and 600-700 receiving.  He's been better than that, so while my estimation was semi-lofty he outperformed that.  If we'd have gotten that from Spiller I'd have loved it.  

 

I've always maintained, for years, decades, that it's never worth taking a WR early in the draft, ever, much less trading up to get one.  Good WRs in a league that makes it very easy to pass the ball are readily available in rounds 2 and 3 easily and often even later.  I would never, under any circumstances, draft a WR in the top-10.  I'd be hard pressed to draft one prior to the 15-20 range.  There are too many positions, DE, OT, QB, MLB, OLB, CB, whereby there really is a huge delta in their level of talent, again, generally speaking from draft to draft.  The draft, IMO and by my strategy, is all about marginal utility.  If by waiting on a OT you drop from a shoe-in to a hopeful in order to get a WR whereby you can get a comparable WR with your next pick, you've gotta go for the OT.   You'll get far better overall value in your draft. 

 

The problem is that GMs don't draft well, create for themselves a hole, whereby they "have to" draft a certain position for whatever reason.  Like when Whaley had to reach for Watkins to justify his pick of Manuel.  There was a conflict of interests there.  Whaley's job security on one hand, team interests and team building on the other.   The latter lost out.  But that's what happens when you have nimrods in charge.  

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=2000&year_max=2019&draft_round_min=1&draft_round_max=3&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&pick_type=overall&pos[]=wr&conference=any&show=all&order_by=default

 

Of the top 12 WRs drafted over the past 20 years, 8 were selected with picks ranging from 27th to 74th (midway thru the 3rd round) overall.  The four exceptions are Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, and Julio Jones.  

 

 

Edited by Ronin
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