K-9 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Just now, Royale with Cheese said: I agree 100%. I think he knew he had to keep an eye on Marcell and when the consistent issues kept coming up....he just got tired of it. Showing up as an out of shape tub of goo doesn't make a good impression on a 1st year coach, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, JohnC said: I disagree. When Dareus was playing for his contract he was one of the most domineering interior linemen in the league. He made the other lineman more effective because he was very often double teamed. After he got his contract he became slothful. McDermott would have loved to have the motivated Dareus on his defense. His effort vanished and "I don't care" attitude was on display for everyone to see. The boss acted like a boss in control and shipped his jiggly arssse out of town. I salute the coach. 4 minutes ago, K-9 said: Before he was hired or after McDermott came in and crunched the tape on Dareus? I think it was the latter because he'd have seen what we all saw; a player capable of mind boggling domination at times as well as a player just going through the motions at times as well. Which is why I think he gave Dareus every chance to buy into the process and be a max effort player on every snap. What he got, in addition to chronic tardiness issues, was a player that put out part time effort. It was GLARING at times in the first month and a half of the '17 season. The Pegulas hiring Rex Ryan led to Dareus' demise in Buffalo. Did Dareus necessarily handle it the best? No. But he was effed as soon as that asinine hire was made. I don't disagree with McDermott's decision to get him out. But - all in all - Dareus earned the money he was paid, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, K-9 said: Perhaps, but when I put those moves in context it makes sense. McBeane were clearly setting their sights on the 2018 QB class, one of the best and deepest in history. With that as a backdrop and having to make a decision on exercising the 5th year option on an injury prone and (self admitted) selfish player not all in with the program in Sammy as well as a less than reliably available Cordy Glenn who was capably filled in for by a rookie LT, I think they saw an opportunity to acquire valuable draft assets to use as chips in that QB rich draft they had their sights on. A plan they executed quite well, imo. I can agree with that in hindsight. As the 2018 off season progressed the pursuit of a rookie QB became obvious and primary to all other things on offense. With the trades/cuts and lack of talented offensive players signed in 2018 I speculate that AJ McCarron was to be the "sacrificial lamb" at QB for the first half or so of the season. That didn't work out anywhere near the way they hoped. All that being said, Beane seems to know how to adjust rapidly and it's getting pretty clear as to how they are building this team. Player wise the 2019 season seems pretty set and now the ball is in McDermott's court to get wins. I'm looking forward to camp and preseason! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Gugny said: The Pegulas hiring Rex Ryan led to Dareus' demise in Buffalo. Did Dareus necessarily handle it the best? No. But he was effed as soon as that asinine hire was made. I don't disagree with McDermott's decision to get him out. But - all in all - Dareus earned the money he was paid, in my opinion. No doubt Rex ruined Dareus. It was dereliction of duty by that idiot. And yet, like a lot of coaches who think they can be that positive influence on a player to get him to max his potential, McD gave him every chance in the book to get on board. I mean, Dareus's talent is obvious. Especially to a D coordinator who knows it when he sees it. But McD reached his breaking point and cut bait. Totally understandable, imo. 3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: I can agree with that in hindsight. As the 2018 off season progressed the pursuit of a rookie QB became obvious and primary to all other things on offense. With the trades/cuts and lack of talented offensive players signed in 2018 I speculate that AJ McCarron was to be the "sacrificial lamb" at QB for the first half or so of the season. That didn't work out anywhere near the way they hoped. All that being said, Beane seems to know how to adjust rapidly and it's getting pretty clear as to how they are building this team. Player wise the 2019 season seems pretty set and now the ball is in McDermott's court to get wins. I'm looking forward to camp and preseason! All we need to know about that is what Beane said when he traded McCarron: "AJ's not who we thought he was." That's as big an indictment on a player as I've heard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: I agree 100%. I think he knew he had to keep an eye on Marcell and when the consistent issues kept coming up....he just got tired of it. When your most talented and highly paid players are held to account the coach's message about teamwork and responsibility gains currency and reverberates throughout the team and organization. Talking about standards and commitment is easy to do. Acting on those standards is not so easy to do. I remember when Randy Moss after a winning game talked about how he was underpaid. Belichick wasn't going to put up with that public foolishness. He quickly kicked him off the team. Afterwards when time went by Randy talked about that incident and how he regretted his behavior. His loss. It was too late. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, Gugny said: The Pegulas hiring Rex Ryan led to Dareus' demise in Buffalo. Did Dareus necessarily handle it the best? No. But he was effed as soon as that asinine hire was made. I don't disagree with McDermott's decision to get him out. But - all in all - Dareus earned the money he was paid, in my opinion. Rex Ryan was a bad hire. That is indisputable. But Dareius's demise was due to no one else but himself. No question that his previous play earned him a gargantuan contract. But that doesn't alter the fact that once he had the signed contract he didn't live up to it because of his own dereliction and laziness. McDermott wasn't automatically biased against Dareus. He tried to work with him and help him get back on track. However, Dareus wasn't receptive to the counseling. The trade was all on him and no one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 17 minutes ago, Gugny said: The Pegulas hiring Rex Ryan led to Dareus' demise in Buffalo. Did Dareus necessarily handle it the best? No. But he was effed as soon as that asinine hire was made. I don't disagree with McDermott's decision to get him out. But - all in all - Dareus earned the money he was paid, in my opinion. 1 minute ago, JohnC said: Rex Ryan was a bad hire. That is indisputable. But Dareius's demise was due to no one else but himself. No question that his previous play earned him a gargantuan contract. But that doesn't alter the fact that once he had the signed contract he didn't live up to it because of his own dereliction and laziness. McDermott wasn't automatically biased against Dareus. He tried to work with him and help him get back on track. However, Dareus wasn't receptive to the counseling. The trade was all on him and no one else. Dareus failing 2 drug tests in a row led to Dareus' demise in Buffalo period. jmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, JohnC said: Rex Ryan was a bad hire. That is indisputable. But Dareius's demise was due to no one else but himself. No question that his previous play earned him a gargantuan contract. But that doesn't alter the fact that once he had the signed contract he didn't live up to it because of his own dereliction and laziness. McDermott wasn't automatically biased against Dareus. He tried to work with him and help him get back on track. However, Dareus wasn't receptive to the counseling. The trade was all on him and no one else. 14 minutes ago, K-9 said: No doubt Rex ruined Dareus. It was dereliction of duty by that idiot. And yet, like a lot of coaches who think they can be that positive influence on a player to get him to max his potential, McD gave him every chance in the book to get on board. I mean, Dareus's talent is obvious. Especially to a D coordinator who knows it when he sees it. But McD reached his breaking point and cut bait. Totally understandable, imo. I think we're all very close to being on the same page. We certainly agree about Ryan. We agree that Dareus was a very good player who went south after that (*^*&%^$^#came aboard. I know McDermott gave Dareus a chance to turn it around; I'm not sure how sincere it was ... but that is strictly my gut talking. Regardless, I agree that Dareus' lack of professionalism is what led to his eventual departure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, K-9 said: All we need to know about that is what Beane said when he traded McCarron: "AJ's not who we thought he was." That's as big an indictment on a player as I've heard. Which brings it back to this, if posters want to critique Beane on moves like the McCarron signing they would get no argument from me. It's having to hear about Dareus/his stats/the Star signing over and over that get's to me at times. I'm sure we will hear about it again in future threads just like Lynch is still being brought up. It just seems so futile to me. The results of THIS season will go a long way to really seeing how things are progressing. I for one am fairly optimistic which is A LOT more than most years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: Which brings it back to this, if posters want to critique Beane on moves like the McCarron signing they would get no argument from me. It's having to hear about Dareus/his stats/the Star signing over and over that get's to me at times. I'm sure we will hear about it again in future threads just like Lynch is still being brought up. It just seems so futile to me. The results of THIS season will go a long way to really seeing how things are progressing. I for one am fairly optimistic which is A LOT more than most years. There is one thing worse than making a poor decision. And that's compounding that poor decision by continuing to do nothing to correct it. Beane admitted he screwed the pooch on the QB situation last season and finally did something about it. I give him credit for owning it and trying to rectify it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 21 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Dareus failing 2 drug tests in a row led to Dareus' demise in Buffalo period. jmo There are players who have failed drug tests yet still put in the preparation and give effort. While jogging one time I witnessed a girl's track team easily scoot by me wearing T-shirts that said Effort is a Talent. Dareus didn't have that attribute that was ascribed on the T-shirts of girls giving it their all. He's not a bad guy but he is a bum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said: The Bills management ate $24 million to get Marcell Dareus off the team. They did not want him on the team. Comparing game stats are meaningless. Dareus was McDermott's and Beane's "poster child" of what a player that didn't fit the process was all about. I know a lot of people don't like that fact but let it go.......they didn't want him on the team. Yes we know that. The debate comes from people thinking it was a good decision. It was not 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 21 minutes ago, K-9 said: There is one thing worse than making a poor decision. And that's compounding that poor decision by continuing to do nothing to correct it. Beane admitted he screwed the pooch on the QB situation last season and finally did something about it. I give him credit for owning it and trying to rectify it. You give him credit? Wow he really can’t lose then! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Chemical said: Yes we know that. The debate comes from people thinking it was a good decision. It was not So, coach. How do you manage that situation knowing that he’s not committed to your program, doesn’t want to be on your team, has chronic tardiness issues, and gives a half assed effort half the time ALL while you’re a first year coach trying to establish YOUR vision, YOUR culture, and YOUR rules of conduct? 6 minutes ago, Chemical said: You give him credit? Wow he really can’t lose then! Yeah, it’s much more productive to keep ripping him for making the mistake in the first place. You ever make a mistake and own up to it? Your second sentence is asinine. Edited June 18, 2019 by K-9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Chemical said: Yes we know that. The debate comes from people thinking it was a good decision. It was not I see it like debating about a family members divorce. No point in it, you just go on with your life and hope the best for each of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, K-9 said: So, coach. How do you manage that situation knowing that he’s not committed to your program, doesn’t want to be on your team, has chronic tardiness issues, and gives a hard assed effort half the time ALL while you’re a first year coach trying to establish YOUR vision, YOUR culture, and YOUR rules of conduct? Yeah, it’s much more productive to keep ripping him for making the mistake in the first place. You ever make a mistake and own up to it? Your second sentence is asinine. He had to admit his mistake. It was one of the most obvious GM failures in recent memory. You don’t get “credit” for admitting you caused an obvious disaster. As far as Dareus goes. They could’ve had more patience. Same with oreilly and the sabres. They’re just overreacting to perceived character issues and losing talented players for nothing. His former coach had no problem being reunited with him. 2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: I see it like debating about a family members divorce. No point in it, you just go on with your life and hope the best for each of them. Ok but this is a thread debating whether or not the coach/GM are doing a good job. Some people think trading Dareus was a big mistake and should be taken into consideration in such a conversation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 hour ago, JohnC said: Rex Ryan was a bad hire. That is indisputable. But Dareius's demise was due to no one else but himself. No question that his previous play earned him a gargantuan contract. But that doesn't alter the fact that once he had the signed contract he didn't live up to it because of his own dereliction and laziness. McDermott wasn't automatically biased against Dareus. He tried to work with him and help him get back on track. However, Dareus wasn't receptive to the counseling. The trade was all on him and no one else. I recall a picture, after Dareus missed the bus I think, of McD one on one with Dareus on the practice field. I think McD was trying to get the kid engaged, but he just wouldn't buy in. So they traded him. As I said above you cannot have your highest paid player be the one with the worst attitude. You'd have to be a Lawrence Taylor like talent to even consider that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chemical said: He had to admit his mistake. It was one of the most obvious GM failures in recent memory. You don’t get “credit” for admitting you caused an obvious disaster. As far as Dareus goes. They could’ve had more patience. Same with oreilly and the sabres. They’re just overreacting to perceived character issues and losing talented players for nothing. His former coach had no problem being reunited with him. Ok but this is a thread debating whether or not the coach/GM are doing a good job. Some people think trading Dareus was a big mistake and should be taken into consideration in such a conversation. He didn't have to admit his mistake. I agree with K-9; kudos to Beane for owning up to it and making better decisions moving forward. It's not like every ***** GM since Kelly left hasn't completely ***** up the QB position. But let's keep busting Beane's balls for a mistake that he made and moved on from. I was a big Dareus fan. But it was as clear as day that he needed to go. He didn't want to play for the Bills anymore and he showed it in the end. Trading him was the right thing to do if one takes the time to put the decision into context. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 30 minutes ago, Chemical said: Yes we know that. The debate comes from people thinking it was a good decision. It was not Yes it was. Unquestionably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) On 6/16/2019 at 12:33 AM, Gugny said: It's also your free will to root for teams which are not owned by the Pegulas (no apostrophe). You're clearly unhappy being a "fan" of Buffalo-based teams. You deserve to be happy. No he is not happy being "happy". He wants to be "right" and have a chromosome inserted so he can be bitchy. Never knew a guy could get PMS until I met him. Edited June 18, 2019 by Limeaid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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