Solar panel farms

[RochesterRob]

WHAM 13 had a report about a proposed solar panel farm over 1000 acres in the towns of Rush and Caledonia south of Rochester.  Just wondering about opinions here on this board.  Not against solar panels but wonder if they should be so concentrated?  I don't live in either town so not a case of NIMBY-ism.  Seems to me that the Southern Tier might be a good location for the majority as the population density is far less than the Rochester metro.  Care would have to given to the surroundings there as well.  Not a tree hugger but worry about certain animals being vulnerable.  Thoughts?

[Steve O]

Well, I can think of a couple issues right off the bat. As you well know I'm sure, Rochester isn't exactly the sunniest place in the country. On average 165 sunny days a year compared to the national average of 205. Why not choose somewhere that has more than average sunshine?

Also, solar panel farms can be mistaken for a body of water, not unlike Boise State's football field. Unlike Boise State and actual bodies of water however, some birds require a running start to get airborne, which they can't get on solar panels, leaving them to starve. 

Finally, it just seems to me like this type of area might be harder to protect from acts of terrorism than traditional power sources.

But hey, I'm sure there are positives.

[RochesterRob]

17 minutes ago, Steve O said:

Well, I can think of a couple issues right off the bat. As you well know I'm sure, Rochester isn't exactly the sunniest place in the country. On average 165 sunny days a year compared to the national average of 205. Why not choose somewhere that has more than average sunshine?

Also, solar panel farms can be mistaken for a body of water, not unlike Boise State's football field. Unlike Boise State and actual bodies of water however, some birds require a running start to get airborne, which they can't get on solar panels, leaving them to starve. 

Finally, it just seems to me like this type of area might be harder to protect from acts of terrorism than traditional power sources.

But hey, I'm sure there are positives.

  Yeah, I'm sure there are sunnier places but proximity to market no doubt comes into play.

[Boca BIlls]

Well its either that or low income housing.

[The Senator]

 

You can grow solar panels on a farm?

 

Someone should have told us that before we wasted a $billion$ on the Tesla plant at Riverbend!

.

[T&C]

Disney just put one together that'll have the power to run 2 of their parks. Florida tho... why not harness energy that's already there, I'm all for it... less coal burning works for me.

[Tiberius]

I was just in Wyoming county and they have miles and miles of wind farms already. Really crazy to drive through. Nothing but cows, farms and giant windmills.

[KD in CA]

2 hours ago, Steve O said:

Well, I can think of a couple issues right off the bat. As you well know I'm sure, Rochester isn't exactly the sunniest place in the country. On average 165 sunny days a year compared to the national average of 205. Why not choose somewhere that has more than average sunshine?

Also, solar panel farms can be mistaken for a body of water, not unlike Boise State's football field. Unlike Boise State and actual bodies of water however, some birds require a running start to get airborne, which they can't get on solar panels, leaving them to starve. 

Finally, it just seems to me like this type of area might be harder to protect from acts of terrorism than traditional power sources.

But hey, I'm sure there are positives.

 

Terrorists smashing solar panels?  Boy, you're really working hard to come up with objections!  

 

Our country's lack of commitment over the last 50 years to using solar power has been criminally stupid.

[Q-baby!]

Cancer?

[GoBills808]

Consolidation facilitates storage. Are you talking about a bunch of passive PV panels or a concentrated system ie mirror array? Those have to be centralized by nature.

[T&C]

36 minutes ago, BigMcD said:

Cancer?

Troll?

[apuszczalowski]

1 hour ago, KD in CA said:

 

Terrorists smashing solar panels?  Boy, you're really working hard to come up with objections!  

 

Our country's lack of commitment over the last 50 years to using solar power has been criminally stupid.

Yeah, doubt a solar Farm is going to be something Terrorists are going to go after, the power generated would be most likely to supplement what is already being generated from another source and not likely be the main source of an areas electricity, that would require way too much land to do.

 

They used to offer HUGE government incentives up here to install solar, recent changes to the provincial government have basically eliminated all of it. I used to see alot of people getting them installed on their houses, banks were basically throwing money at you in loans or added to your mortgage if you were lucky enough to get approved for the grants/incentives because they paid very well for the energy you sold back into the grid. Now I am seeing very little new solar projects going up on homes. I don't think the cost is low enough for the systems (panels and installation) for people to want to install them.

[The Senator]

26 minutes ago, T&C said:

Troll?

 

The ‘Ignore’ list is my friend.

.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

Yeah, doubt a solar Farm is going to be something Terrorists are going to go after, the power generated would be most likely to supplement what is already being generated from another source and not likely be the main source of an areas electricity, that would require way too much land to do.

 

They used to offer HUGE government incentives up here to install solar, recent changes to the provincial government have basically eliminated all of it. I used to see alot of people getting them installed on their houses, banks were basically throwing money at you in loans or added to your mortgage if you were lucky enough to get approved for the grants/incentives because they paid very well for the energy you sold back into the grid. Now I am seeing very little new solar projects going up on homes. I don't think the cost is low enough for the systems (panels and installation) for people to want to install them.

 

The cost of panels keeps going down ever since China started subsidizing manufacturing, and improvements in material tech has exponentially increased value/kWh.

[SoTier]

10 hours ago, Steve O said:

Well, I can think of a couple issues right off the bat. As you well know I'm sure, Rochester isn't exactly the sunniest place in the country. On average 165 sunny days a year compared to the national average of 205. Why not choose somewhere that has more than average sunshine?

Also, solar panel farms can be mistaken for a body of water, not unlike Boise State's football field. Unlike Boise State and actual bodies of water however, some birds require a running start to get airborne, which they can't get on solar panels, leaving them to starve. 

Finally, it just seems to me like this type of area might be harder to protect from acts of terrorism than traditional power sources.

But hey, I'm sure there are positives.

 

Yeah, there are positives -- like slowing global warming which will negatively impact almost all species of living things.   Modern PV panels can produce electricity even on cloudy days, which is what makes building pv panel farms in WNY feasible.   Small pv panel arrays are popping up all over rural Chautauqua and Cattaraugus counties to provide power for dairy farms and local government facilities as well as individual homes.  Individual pv panels provide power for all kinds of permanent and temporary warning/traffic control lights along interstates and rural highways.   Smaller energy producing facilities spread over a wide area significantly decrease the threat of terrorism simply because terrorists seek to have significant and symbolic impacts, so the Kinzua Dam would be a much more likely target than the Ellington Town Hall, and the New York Power Authority facilities in/around Niagara Falls would be even more so.

 

The Audubon Society supports solar power, most notably the pv panel arrays, and addresses the issue of "lake effect" and other dangers to birds.   Why Solar Power is Good for Birds

 

 

[mead107]

More farm land gone.  

Feed the world with greenhouse food.  

50 years from now the new young generation will want them taken down to give the land back to animals.  

[Steve O]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

The Audubon Society supports solar power, most notably the pv panel arrays, and addresses the issue of "lake effect" and other dangers to birds.   Why Solar Power is Good for Birds

 

 

From the link:

"Thermal solar, also known as concentrating solar, generates electricity by focusing solar rays to transform a fluid into steam. That steam then turns a turbine to power a generator.

These installations can kill birds. Some concentrated solar installations arrange a huge number of mirrors that point to a central tower, and the concentrated solar towers create an incredibly high-heat area that’s dangerous for anything to touch. What's worse, the light beam and surrounding mirrors actually attract birds and the insects they like to eat.

The potential harm of this solar power method can be seen at the Ivanpah concentrated solar tower in California. In 2015, Ivanpah killed about seven birds per gigawatt hour of electricity produced...By comparison, the climate change impacts of burning fossil fuels are estimated to kill only one bird per gigawatt hour. Because of this, Audubon opposes any further construction of concentrated solar towers."

Re the lake it affect it simply states:

"Some developers are adding special patterns to their panels or using other strategies to reduce the risk of crash landings."

 

The benefits outlined in the article are more in the realm of what is done in conjunction with the placement of the panels (planting native plant species around the solar farms for instance) and solar being less disruptive than fossil fuels than any real benefit the panels themselves provide. 

 

Back to the OP's question, not saying it is a horrible idea, just that you can't put up a thousand acres of solar panels, say look at this great thing we've done, and call it a day. Rochester does not need another fast ferry.

 

[SoTier]

21 hours ago, Steve O said:

From the link:

"Thermal solar, also known as concentrating solar, generates electricity by focusing solar rays to transform a fluid into steam. That steam then turns a turbine to power a generator.

These installations can kill birds. Some concentrated solar installations arrange a huge number of mirrors that point to a central tower, and the concentrated solar towers create an incredibly high-heat area that’s dangerous for anything to touch. What's worse, the light beam and surrounding mirrors actually attract birds and the insects they like to eat.

The potential harm of this solar power method can be seen at the Ivanpah concentrated solar tower in California. In 2015, Ivanpah killed about seven birds per gigawatt hour of electricity produced...By comparison, the climate change impacts of burning fossil fuels are estimated to kill only one bird per gigawatt hour. Because of this, Audubon opposes any further construction of concentrated solar towers."

Re the lake it affect it simply states:

"Some developers are adding special patterns to their panels or using other strategies to reduce the risk of crash landings."

 

The benefits outlined in the article are more in the realm of what is done in conjunction with the placement of the panels (planting native plant species around the solar farms for instance) and solar being less disruptive than fossil fuels than any real benefit the panels themselves provide. 

 

Back to the OP's question, not saying it is a horrible idea, just that you can't put up a thousand acres of solar panels, say look at this great thing we've done, and call it a day. Rochester does not need another fast ferry.

 

 

Thermal solar is not pv solar -- photovoltaic solar -- which is the type of solar power that the Audubon Society endorses.  They endorse pv solar with the caveat that steps be taken to minimize danger to birds and other wildlife as well as their habitat but they would do that with every type of power project.  The reality is that everything people do impacts other species and always has, and the best we can do is mitigate the damage we do. 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

Several years ago, I actually thought about installing solar panels on our house. I asked a friend of mine (who is a builder) and he laughed at me, and then showed me numbers that said that the panels would never pay for themselves.

 

His reasoning was something like this.

• If you install panels on your house, you also have to install a new roof at the same time.
• Solar panels only work during the warmer months, when the sun is high enough in the sky.
• Optimistically, solar panels would save me about 33% on my electric bill during the 5 months of warm weather here in Texas (mid-May to mid-October).
• If my electric bill were $300/month for those five months, then I would save about $500 per year in electric bills.
• It would cost about $15,000 to install panels on my roof.
• Working backwards on the numbers, it would then take me 30 years just to break even.

 

[Marv's Neighbor]

Considering the in place hydro power from Niagara, and the WNY sunny days per year, would such a project even be cost effective?