Again people..... This is the first year of a REBUILD

[hondo in seattle]

5 minutes ago, 87168 said:

I keep seeing the word "rebuild". I even saw the word "reload". all excuses for perpetual losing organizations.

 

also, need to ask why the FO is "rebuilding" a team that made it to the playoffs the year prior? poor decisions were made by the coaching staff, and we saw how it played out.

 

Because the best two players on the OL retired.  And our QB wasn't a Super Bowl calibre QB and had to be replaced.  And our dead money and bloated contracts made sustained excellence impossible.  

 

Seriously, just go to Over-The-Cap, or a similar site, and within minutes you'll figure out what Beane is up to.  

 

Yes, losing organizations use "rebuild" as an excuse.  But good GMs and HCs do successfully rebuild teams from time to time.  That's why the excuse sometimes works.  

 

We don't know yet if Beane and McD will succeed.  But the plan is obviously.  We're going to start loading up in 2019 and continue into 2020.  

 

 

[Seventeen]

1 minute ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

Wow....Christmas really bring out the best in people. 

 

Not just Xmas - some posters really need their own message boards where they can have multiple handles and talk and agree with themselves.

[87168]

Just now, hondo in seattle said:

 

Because the best two players on the OL retired.  And our QB wasn't a Super Bowl calibre QB and had to be replaced.  And our dead money and bloated contracts made sustained excellence impossible.  

 

Seriously, just go to Over-The-Cap, or a similar site, and within minutes you'll figure out what Beane is up to.  

 

Yes, losing organizations use "rebuild" as an excuse.  But good GMs and HCs do successfully rebuild teams from time to time.  That's why the excuse sometimes works.  

 

We don't know yet if Beane and McD will succeed.  But the plan is obviously.  We're going to start loading up in 2019 and continue into 2020.  

 

 

ah yes, the cap situation. I love that narrative.

 

good organizations don't make moves like the Bills have. the current regime is on their 2nd year and we're looking at 2020 for an actual turn around? ha ok.

[Bing Bong]

5 minutes ago, Magox said:

Dont waste your breath on these neanderthals.

He brings up good points for civil discourse. It's great we have these things but I'm simply NERVOUS we haven't shown the track record to succeed with all these. I've always maintained next year will be the time for hot takes since all this CAP and high picks we have are the very reason we have optimism. Need to see improvement and will be more than nervous if I don't see it.

 

It's also looks like too long a rebuild given the gaps in our roster, but if that pans so be it. Not my preference but if it takes him that much longer to give us that much more sustained success than awesome. Otherwise we're playing a dangerous game of failing a longer-term rebuild.

 

This isn't outside the realm of possibility. That's what I believe is Neanderthals are nervous about

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

9 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

You make it sound like Beane has a track record of wasting picks.  He's been in charge of one draft.

 

While the Bills have been rebuilding for decades, the current GM and HC have only a short time in their positions.  

 

Here's what Beane's accomplished so far in his short time with us.

 

#2 defense in the NFL.

#3 most cap space in 2019

#1 most cap space in 2020

10 draft picks in 2019

 

This year we had the lowest active roster spending in the NFL.  Beane had exceptionally little money to spend on free agency by - as much as possible - taking hits this year to free up cap space for the future.  So this season McD had a talent-poor roster to work with and never had a fighting chance.  

 

This year was all about making 2019 and 2020 good years.  Let's see what Beane and McD do next year before judging them on a plan that was never designed to produce a lot of wins in 2018.  

 

$100 million in cap space and 10 picks in the draft can fill a lot of the holes you mention.  And no team is entirely without holes.  

 

...a very fair and well done assessment......but you also know the popularity 'round these parts with the "voice of reason" stuff.............didn't posting pundits forecast, 4-12, 5-11, 6-10, etc in an expected down year?.....now that Bflo has met the expectation, how many of those same "pundits" are yapping,...."we suck.....fire everybody"......go figure.....

[LSHMEAB]

10 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I can’t wait til next year when if something goes wrong we will have posters arguing this was the tear down year and next year is the first year rebuilding 

Next year will really be year one the grand plan because the surprise unexpected 9-7 playoff run in 2017 forced Beane's hand into decisions to help the team in 2017 that cost them the entire 2018 season. Therefore if the Bills struggle in 2019 it will all be part of the NEW master plan since the original master plan was derailed by their brilliance in 2017.

 

Should not expect results until 2021 if you actually watch the games and aren't some whiny stats geek living in your Mom's basement!

[Boca BIlls]

9 minutes ago, Looper said:

 

Who said forever - just ain't happening in a year. 

Yea with garbage HC/GMs

[Seventeen]

1 minute ago, Boca BIlls said:

Yea with garbage HC/GMs

 

Like I said, go back and look at the Polian rebuild and I'm sure you can find other examples of multi-year rebuilds outside of the Bills with the same HC/GM. Go look ...

[87168]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...a very fair and well done assessment......but you also know the popularity 'round these parts with the "voice of reason" stuff.............didn't posting pundits forecast, 4-12, 5-11, 6-10, etc in an expected down year?.....now that Bflo has met the expectation, how many of those same "pundits" are yapping,...."we suck.....fire everybody"......go figure.....

many here predicted the Bills' offense would be much better with an "actual QB", a "pocket passer".

 

I'm not sure what expectations were met, or why they're so low, but...

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

I’m tired of excuses like this. Baker Mayfield & Sam Darnold have at times looked the part of a franchise QB. Lamar Jackson is the best athletic QB. We have at best the #4 QB in the draft & there is easily a 50/50 chance Allen totally busts in 2019. How much better can a 50% passer get in year 2 assuming we bring in a rookie WR & TE? I don’t want to sound the alarm, but this regime likely has 16 to 32 games until a new one is brought in to attempt another ‘rebuild’. We play the NFC East & AFC North next year. That’s a tough climb. Road games at Dallas, Cleveland, & Pittsburgh. What’s the rosiest early predictions on 2019? 7-9? 

Thank you for being a lone voice in the wilderness, offering some balance to the "we have our franchise QB" crowd.  Allen remains a long shot IMO and if things aren't going well and in the right direction next year, McD is in trouble. I can easily see a scenario where McD is let got at end of 2019 season.

 

 

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

2 minutes ago, 87168 said:

ah yes, the cap situation. I love that narrative.

 

good organizations don't make moves like the Bills have. the current regime is on their 2nd year and we're looking at 2020 for an actual turn around? ha ok.

 

If you think it's just a narrative, you don't understand the NFL.  The best teams manage the cap well and there's a huge correlation between active roster spending and win totals.   This season we're dead last in active roster spending.  We're still paying for the sins of our past.  

 

Beane didn't inherit a wisely managed roster.  He's using this year to fix it.  He's doing exactly what we'd expect a good NFL executive to do.  

 

 

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

What puzzles me is that Bills message boards have always been majority negative and the reason is quite simple; the Bills have been bad for over 20 years. 

 

Why should I be encouraged now as opposed to then other than blind faith?

 

Were people always so optimistic or is there something this regime is doing that gives you such hope? Honest question. I think it's perfectly reasonable to question the decision makers when there is nothing to show for the rebuild other than a 9-7 season followed by a 5/6-10/11 campaign.

This board is massively tilted to the kool aid drinking side of the equation and has been for a while.

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

2 minutes ago, Looper said:

 

Like I said, go back and look at the Polian rebuild and I'm sure you can find other examples of multi-year rebuilds outside of the Bills with the same HC/GM. Go look ...

 

I already mentioned Walsh's rebuild in SF and Carroll's rebuild in Seattle.  There are many others.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 minutes ago, 87168 said:

many here predicted the Bills' offense would be much better with an "actual QB", a "pocket passer".

 

I'm not sure what expectations were met, or why they're so low, but...

 

....agree with what you're saying about the offense....sorry for confusion about "expectations"...reference ONLY was to final 2018 expected record.......

Edited December 25, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[RaoulDuke79]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

Thank you for being a lone voice in the wilderness, offering some balance to the "we have our franchise QB" crowd.  Allen remains a long shot IMO and if things aren't going well and in the right direction next year, McD is in trouble. I can easily see a scenario where McD is let got at end of 2019 season.

 

 

 

 

Awesome 

[LSHMEAB]

As someone who admittedly doesn't trust the process, I'm starting to get the sense that fans will turn on Beane and McDermott before they ever turn on the quarterback.

 

I don't think the offense is fixable in one offseason. I would honestly do everything possible to field a LEGIT dominant defense in 2019. It's our quickest path to contention.

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, BigDingus said:

I just want to know when Allen is supposed to get better...

 

We only gave EJ Manuel 10 games his rookie year, then 4 into his next before we benched him... and EJ finished those 10 games with a 4 - 6 record, 58.8% completions, 1,972 yards and 11 passing TD's to 9 INT's.

 

Allen has a 4 - 6 record (same), 51.7% completions (significantly worse), 1,850 yards (worse) and 7 passing TD's (worse) to 9 INT's (same). So do we give Allen 1 more game this year, and the first 3 of next season before we settle on his benching? 

 

I mean people HATED EJ by that 2nd season, so how long before Allen gets called out for being the exact same player he's always been since college? Improve? Not even close... he's exactly the damn same! When we're playing the weakest teams the past several weeks it's fun to watch him look decent, running around like a RB... but against good teams he plays just as poorly as he always has in college the past few years against good teams!

 

But I don't know why I'm even trying to explain this... these same board members are the ones who claimed:

 

1. We should easily make the playoffs again since we did it last year, and we now have a better QB

2. The O-line improved by subtraction...(seriously, wtf argument was that?!)

3. The we didn't have the worst QB group in the league with only 4 games started between 3 guys 

4. That our WR corps anchored by KB was a solid starting unit

5. Allen is better than Mahomes

6. LeSean McCoy has many good years left ahead of him

7. Accuracy isn't important and "doesn't really matter"

 

It could go on and on, but these brilliant assessments have driven me nuts since the off season, and looking ahead it'll likely get even worse. The one thing I know for a fact is that if we want Allen to succeed, we DO NOT draft any defensive player with our first pick.

 

Our unit is ranked #1 overall, so perhaps work on improving the 30th-32nd ranked offense instead. 

The vast majority of this board does not understand where Allen's game is, his limitations as a passer, and the fact that he remains a long shot project at best.

 

They are easily swooned by his intangibles: leadership, competitive fire, and his great, gutsy runs.  Those are all fine things to have in your QB, but without really solid fundamentals, it's not enough.

 

Allen has been this season who he always has been.  He does some nice things, some bad things, makes a nice throw, makes 2 bad ones...and it all averages out to "not good enough."

He will likely be the same next year and he will not get forever.  

 

I think he'll get more than EJ's 14 games, but he'll have to turn a major corner next year or else we'll move on, with or without McDermott as the coach.

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

Just now, Nextmanup said:

This board is massively tilted to the kool aid drinking side of the equation and has been for a while.

 

 

 

Maybe.  But most of the people that you probably see as Kool-Aid drinkers are actually arguing against prejudgment rather than taking a judgmental opinion on the positive extreme.  

 

When Beane's obvious plan is to make 2019 and beyond into good years by putting all his dead cap dollars into 2018 and freeing up massive amounts of cap space in 2019 and 2020, it's hard to judge him on this season's results.  It was never his plan to be good this year so how do we know if his plan is working or not?   The good stuff, by design, is supposed to come later on.

And when McD has the lowest paid (i.e. least talented) roster in the NFL this season, it's hard to judge him on this year's W-L record.  

 

Let's see what happens next year.

[vorpma]

21 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Several people did predict this, but there were many others who suggested the offense "couldn't be much worse" or it "can't get worse than Tyrod so the team should be right where they were last year." ?

 

 

Not quite, most posts stated 6 - 10 or 5 - 11; we have a small minority of win the SB now or you get a temper tantrum!

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 hours ago, BillsSB2020 said:

I'm encouraged by many of the cultural changes happening at One Bills Drive and believe this offseason they will grow leaps and bounds beyond what we've seen in the past. I'm not going to wag my finger at the naysayers but this time is different. Whaleys left us in a terrible cap situation, although he was trying to compete. The Beane Man came in and decided the roster needed an overhaul not a bandaid. 

 

As long as we've got our franchise quarterback set in stone, the sky is the limit.

Well next year should be a jump forward on multiple accounts. 

 

1. The character narrative should be set, done, over. McDermott's been here for 2 years and the roster has been purged. 

 

2. They ate all the dead-cap. Let's see what Free Agents Beane and McDermott go after past washed up ex-Panthers. 

 

3. Josh Allen is going to go into Year 2 as the starter. I don't believe that knowing your the starter in OTA's means anything, but if you think it does, then he's being handed the keys. 

 

Next year are we going to keep using the Wood/Incognito excuse? Or the Josh hasn't started 16 games excuse? Or the Offensive Line hasn't gelled yet excuse? 

 

When is the real winning going to start?