LSHMEAB Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, ctk232 said: Not necessarily - we have no way of telling what the future will be like until we go through this offseason at the very least. And I can see the arguments for why you'd think Mahomes would be a competitive QB capable of starting week in and week out for a team, but I just can't agree the same results you are seeing would have occurred here. Not saying he'd be trash, but I don't think he's the franchise caliber player you are seeing now. We could go 8-8 next year, or even hit double digit wins for all we know. I honestly don't know enough about offensive schemes and NFL playbooks to reach a conclusion on Daboll, even if this roster could provide operative data to properly judge him this year. Like I said, given the plan promised of a rebuild, there hasn't been nearly enough time or data to properly assess any outcome, and place judgment one way or the other just yet. Doesn't make me a homer, just means that I'd like to approach this with what I believe to be a logical approach and see where we are when we have some semblance of a fully built roster. We're basically saying the same thing about Mahomes and I wasn't singling you out as a homer. I'm specifically referring to the posters who bend like contortionists to defend every single thing this regime does even contradicting one position to justify another. I almost admire their optimism, but it's impossible to have constructive dialog with people so blindly faithful. Edited November 1, 2018 by LSHMEAB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctk232 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 8 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: We're basically saying the same thing about Mahomes and I wasn't singling you out as a homer. I'm specifically referring to the posters who bend like contortionists to defend every single thing this regime does even contradicting one position to justify another. I almost admire their optimism, but it's impossible to have constructive dialog with people so blindly faithful. Word - the binary oppositions on this board can become suffocating at times. There's no reason to be one v. the other, but the reality is we're in a rebuild, even with making the playoffs last year, we're in a rebuild - given that reality you can have the understanding that there hasn't been enough time for everything to take place, but that doesn't mean we can't be critical of what has happened. Where we get into trouble is extending those criticisms to justify actionable items like "fire McD/Beane," "Allen isn't the answer," or alternatively, "it's not McD's fault" or "that isn't Beane's fault" etc. And while some of these conclusions may end up proving themselves in the end, the simple truth is it's all speculation (some more informed/educated than others). To the point at hand re: cognitive dissonance, it's more the case that regardless of the coaching staff in place, there's no guarantee that Mahomes/Watson develop the same way. Of course they each have inherent talents that show beyond what a coaching staff can develop, but a lot of what you are seeing is right place right time in terms of their transition to the NFL. No reason that Allen can't have a Mahomes-esque year - but the part we don't want to hear is that it might be another season or two before he gets there. I argued that with Rico/Culley developing either QB in his first year, it's more likely than not that neither ends up the way they are playing now, which of course falls on McD for making the personnel decision to hire. But even so, I don't find that it completely destroys my optimism for what we could potentially have under his HC tenure. But does it make me cautiously skeptical? You bet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 On 10/30/2018 at 7:04 AM, SoCal Deek said: I’m confused. What rebuild? The offense has been 100% ignored! They have two older running backs, no up and coming Linemen, a receiving group with zero future, and a tight end with no heart. How in Gods name is this a rebuild? With the possible exception of Josh Allen the offense hasn’t even started to rebuild yet. It’s in the total demolition phase. During the off season I said the same thing. Most posters on this board argued with me about my observations. After I observed what I did I predicted (with AJM starting and being semi-serviceable) a 6-10 (+/- 1) record. The QB situation was even worse than that so the final record will be even worse. All that being said, I then ended with "This seems to be the plan and if it is the 2019 off season has to be all-in of the offense". I will wait to see if that is true. On 10/30/2018 at 12:07 PM, Alphadawg7 said: Thanks...I am just fired up over the nonsense on this board. Its so beyond ridiculous and illogical right now that I struggle to even come back...and I am a guy who comes to this board many times every day. Ive been pondering leaving until the spring and draft time cuz its just so unbearable here right now. Big fan of this board, but man its in the sh*tter right now like its never been before. Alphadawg, you had a couple of well thought out posts in this thread. Thanks again. I agree with everything you said about the state of this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 My concern is as much as I think the ownership wants to provide a good team they don't have the experience required. I hope that they will hire an experienced football executive to oversee the whole operation. I may like the Pegulas but their over their heads I fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watkins90 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 52 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: You realize you just made a ***** excuse for every player that McBeane didn't resign/traded away right? So, you think we should have massively overpaid for Woods when McDermott's whole intention was to get rid of bad contracts? You think we should have spent money on a player in Goodwin who hadn't played a full season due to injuries? Glenn, I really can't say much. He has played well, but they have Dawkins. Dawkins is younger and developing. If they think he can be as good as Glenn, then he is younger and you have him for much longer. I didn't really make excuses. I tried to explain the rationale behind decisions. Unlike you, I'm not going to lose my ***** over McBeane's decisions. We won't know what kind of impact they'll have until a couple years from now. 3 minutes ago, Radar said: My concern is as much as I think the ownership wants to provide a good team they don't have the experience required. I hope that they will hire an experienced football executive to oversee the whole operation. I may like the Pegulas but their over their heads I fear. Football Czar's aren't just laying around waiting to be hired. Beane's in his second year after his first draft. Why don't we give the guy a chance to BUILD a roster before we rush to judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Watkins90 said: So, you think we should have massively overpaid for Woods when McDermott's whole intention was to get rid of bad contracts? You think we should have spent money on a player in Goodwin who hadn't played a full season due to injuries? Glenn, I really can't say much. He has played well, but they have Dawkins. Dawkins is younger and developing. If they think he can be as good as Glenn, then he is younger and you have him for much longer. I didn't really make excuses. I tried to explain the rationale behind decisions. Unlike you, I'm not going to lose my ***** over McBeane's decisions. We won't know what kind of impact they'll have until a couple years from now. Football Czar's aren't just laying around waiting to be hired. Beane's in his second year after his first draft. Why don't we give the guy a chance to BUILD a roster before we rush to judgment. Felt this way before they hired Beane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Watkins90 said: . Watkins doesn't deserve the money he is being paid by KC, but KC is all in while Mahomes is on a cheap deal, so they are willing to spend extra for potential because they have so many other weapons who are on cheap deals. Hill and Hunt are both on their rookie deals still. I could see Watkins ending up with his career best year this year and end up as one of the top 15-20 WR at years end. Is it worth the $ he is getting, IDK, i'd have to compare WR salaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, Watkins90 said: Football Czar's aren't just laying around waiting to be hired. Beane's in his second year after his first draft. Why don't we give the guy a chance to BUILD a roster before we rush to judgment. Not to mention, they don't really work. See: Coughlin, Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watkins90 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 minute ago, pop gun said: I could see Watkins ending up with his career best year this year and end up as one of the top 15-20 WR at years end. Is it worth the $ he is getting, IDK, i'd have to compare WR salaries. He has 34 catches for 453 yards and 3 TDs. Not exactly lighting the world on fire. Then again, he doesn't have too. Like I said, he is overpaid for his production, but they can do that because Hill, Hunt, and Mahomes are on rookie deals. They also have enough other weapons that Sammy doesn't have to be the guy, so it doesn't matter what he ends up with for stats as long as he contributes and doesn't hurt the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 14 minutes ago, Watkins90 said: He has 34 catches for 453 yards and 3 TDs. Not exactly lighting the world on fire. Then again, he doesn't have too. Like I said, he is overpaid for his production, but they can do that because Hill, Hunt, and Mahomes are on rookie deals. They also have enough other weapons that Sammy doesn't have to be the guy, so it doesn't matter what he ends up with for stats as long as he contributes and doesn't hurt the team. Yeah he's not setting the world on fire but not bad for basically 7 games (12 snaps in Den 1st game) and Mahomes has a lot of other options. His projected out averages the second half of the year put him about 75 rec 1000 yds and 6-7 TDs, right now all Bills fans would kill for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 28 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Not to mention, they don't really work. See: Coughlin, Tom. Horrible example. What else ya got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Just now, Coach Tuesday said: Horrible example. What else ya got? Is it really? Half the dim bulbs on this board SCREAMED for Coughlin to be brought in here. What's he built in Jacksonville? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socal-805 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 This is what can happen when you allow a 1st time rookie Head Coach to have complete control, hand select a G.M. with no prior G.M. McD was a D coordinator and doesn't seem to have any idea how to build an offense. By the way, where are all the scouts and talent evaluators??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Socal-805 said: This is what can happen when you allow a 1st time rookie Head Coach to have complete control, hand select a G.M. with no prior G.M. McD was a D coordinator and doesn't seem to have any idea how to build an offense. By the way, where are all the scouts and talent evaluators??? On this board of course! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 13 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Is it really? Half the dim bulbs on this board SCREAMED for Coughlin to be brought in here. What's he built in Jacksonville? Seriously? He's built a great roster with an inconsistent QB, whom he extended on a team-friendly deal making it easy to cut bait. Look at where Jax was before Coughlin got there and where they are now, their roster is night and day better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Seriously? He's built a great roster with an inconsistent QB, whom he extended on a team-friendly deal making it easy to cut bait. Look at where Jax was before Coughlin got there and where they are now, their roster is night and day better. Which, in the end is a FAIL. He's done what whaley did. Collect a bunch of players, ignore the QB, and look what it's got them. Edit: They have ONE more win than we do, are at a -35 point differential, AND are going to be OVER THE CAP next season. Brilliance, thy name is coach tuesday...er I mean Tom Coughlin. Edited November 1, 2018 by joesixpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: They went to the AFC Championship game last year and probably should've won it. But we are clearly building something better.? The myopia around here is really unbelievable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: During the off season I said the same thing. Most posters on this board argued with me about my observations. After I observed what I did I predicted (with AJM starting and being semi-serviceable) a 6-10 (+/- 1) record. The QB situation was even worse than that so the final record will be even worse. All that being said, I then ended with "This seems to be the plan and if it is the 2019 off season has to be all-in of the offense". I will wait to see if that is true. Alphadawg, you had a couple of well thought out posts in this thread. Thanks again. I agree with everything you said about the state of this board. Thanks bud, glad some of us haven't lost all sanity 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 28 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Which, in the end is a FAIL. He's done what whaley did. Collect a bunch of players, ignore the QB, and look what it's got them. Edit: They have ONE more win than we do, are at a -35 point differential, AND are going to be OVER THE CAP next season. Brilliance, thy name is coach tuesday...er I mean Tom Coughlin. They are going to miss out on all those nice FA next year I guess. Like uh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) On 10/30/2018 at 6:35 AM, Fadingpain said: Beane is McDermott's errand boy. If you don't like the look of the organization, it's McDermott you need to fire, not Beane. WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING THIS. YOU NEVER SUBSTANTIATE YOUR POINT BUT REPEAT AD NAUSEUM. Just tell me why for Christ's sake. Do it once. Give me your theory. WHAT ARE WE PAYING HIM FOR WHAT IS IS JOB DESCRIPTION. You know at my company my boss is my errand boy. He gets coffee for me and gives me pay raises when I want them Edited November 1, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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