PlayoffsPlease Posted October 26, 2018 Author Share Posted October 26, 2018 35 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Then compare that to the Bills franchise, which has historically driven good coaches out of town, and has historically placed far greater value on the running game than QB. ? True, but the point is that those teams' cultures, which start from the Ownership, are ones that properly value the QB position in the first place. They also did manage to stay competetive for the 20 years between bradshaw and roethilisberger with such standouts as Bubby Brister, Neil O'Donnel, Jim Miller, Mark Malone and Kordell Stewart 1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said: When you try to 'emulate' another organizations culture you usually end up just 'imitating' them rather than 'being' them. From my experience with 'culture' changes in the business world I find the majority of culture changes to be a bunch of B.S. The don't work. I don't think it's much different in sports. You can't take a bunch of unmotivated losers, put in some new rules and processes, and make them into winners. It comes down to one thing. Either you know what you are doing or you don't. if you're the owner hire people that know what they are doing. If you find you are not hiring people that know what they are doing then admit that you, as the owner, don't know what you are doing either. I don't think business world culture translates to NFL. “Sure, luck means a lot in football. Not having a good quarterback is bad luck.” ― Don Shula I am going to update that with my own version “Sure, a winning culture means a lot in football. Not having a good quarterback results in a bad culture.” ― PlayoffsPlease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: They also did manage to stay competetive for the 20 years between bradshaw and roethilisberger with such standouts as Bubby Brister, Neil O'Donnel, Jim Miller, Mark Malone and Kordell Stewart Well that goes back to the other part of the equation, Head Coaching. Stability instilled from Ownership in the FO and Coaching staff allows for a "culture" that can stay competitive even with less-than-ideal QBs. They werent winning any Super Bowls, but they were making the playoffs, and actually did make a Super Bowl with O'Donnell. So if you dont think he's a good QB, then it was culture and coaching that got them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: When you try to 'emulate' another organizations culture you usually end up just 'imitating' them rather than 'being' them. From my experience with 'culture' changes in the business world I find the majority of culture changes to be a bunch of B.S. The don't work. I don't think it's much different in sports. You can't take a bunch of unmotivated losers, put in some new rules and processes, and make them into winners. It comes down to one thing. Either you know what you are doing or you don't. if you're the owner hire people that know what they are doing. If you find you are not hiring people that know what they are doing then admit that you, as the owner, don't know what you are doing either. My experience is somewhat different. Leaders decide how they want their organization to run and decide the principles under which it operates. That to me is culture. Then they stay firm on establishing that mindset. Generally then, you find employees who've been dying to have that kind of culture and buy in, and you find those who don't. They either leave on their own or are encouraged to seek other alternatives. In football to me its about establishing how you want your team to succeed. And then everything is centered on that, how you draft, what FAs you look for, who you sign, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIZ Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Patriots and Steelers. I think I remember reading that McDermott read Belechick's book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Hes trying to turn them into the Patriots/Panthers So much emphasis on team over talent. Getting rid of bloated contracts, under performing players and drafting talented, high football IQ, love football, type players. Playing sound defensive football with a varied offensive scheme. Having a smart/ athletic QB who loves football and makes plays with his arm and legs. Not all the pieces are in place yet and I wouldn't expect them to be yet. But the blueprint is there. Allen = Cam Edmunds = Keuchly Hyde = McCourty White = Gilmore/Josh Norman This year sucks. I hate getting blown out and I think they really screwed the pooch on lots of positions (see backup QB, WR). Hopefully it pans out because those are two teams that have a higher than average level of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boater Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 10 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: “Sure, a winning culture means a lot in football. Not having a good quarterback results in a bad culture.” Foot note (1 ) Not having a competent QB Coach makes a bad culture even worse From my understanding, the Bills QB coach is not very experienced with NFL QBs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted October 26, 2018 Author Share Posted October 26, 2018 2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: Well that goes back to the other part of the equation, Head Coaching. Stability instilled from Ownership in the FO and Coaching staff allows for a "culture" that can stay competitive even with less-than-ideal QBs. They werent winning any Super Bowls, but they were making the playoffs, and actually did make a Super Bowl with O'Donnell. So if you dont think he's a good QB, then it was culture and coaching that got them there. Or there is not really a concept of culture that is separate from head coaching talent. I think if you have an excellent HC and a Excellent QB, you automatically have the "culture". I think if your HC is separating culture from his own responsibility, what he is really doing is creating an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: When you try to 'emulate' another organizations culture you usually end up just 'imitating' them rather than 'being' them. From my experience with 'culture' changes in the business world I find the majority of culture changes to be a bunch of B.S. The don't work. I don't think it's much different in sports. You can't take a bunch of unmotivated losers, put in some new rules and processes, and make them into winners. It comes down to one thing. Either you know what you are doing or you don't. if you're the owner hire people that know what they are doing. If you find you are not hiring people that know what they are doing then admit that you, as the owner, don't know what you are doing either. This. I always felt St. Doug was trying too hard to be Belicheck/Patriots*. Problem is that smug cockiness only works when you have something to be cocky about, or else you just come off as an ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Resurrecting this as I was thinking about it last night. Here are my Tiers for Well Run Franchises... TOP TIER - Class of the League Patriots Steelers Packers Giants These m#%#erf$#^ers. Even if they have a down year or two (Giants looking at you) they usually bounce back pretty quickly, and will be back there making a Super Bowl run. Consistency in ownership and FO is key, as well as coaching and QB. 2nd Tier - Almost always Competitive Baltimore Denver Dallas Well run, usually in the playoffs, or primed to do so. Consistency in ownership, and FO. 3rd Tier - On the Right Track Philly KC Philly could easily be put in the 2nd Tier, I'm just waiting to see if Pederson keeps the winning going into his tenure after the Chip Kelly debacle. Had they gone right from Reid to Pederson, they'd probably be in 2nd tier. KC, funny enough, Reid is bringing that same mojo from Philly to his new team. I was considering putting the Rams in the 3rd Tier, but I think it is too early in their Los Angeles tenure to say whether they are on the right track. They are close to making that tier and doing everything correctly to start working their way up, but have a long way to go to get there. Everyone else flounders and is basically a dumpster fire compared to the top tier. Some franchises may catch lightning in a bottle and have a couple good years, but will inevitably do something stupid and quickly fall back to the bottom (see: Dolphins, Jaguars). Right now, before we emulate the Patriots and Steelers, we need to simply try to get into the 3rd tier. A young coach and QB need to put it together and start winning some. Then we can stabilize the FO and team, and work our way up the tiers. The Buffalo Bills, as an organization and company, will most likely never be a Top Tier team. They never have been in the entire 60 year history. And it's unlikely the Pegulas change that. But I'd be happy just getting our way into that 3rd Tier, and maybe trying to crack the 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) The Patriots model has been tried many times. Nobody has come close. It simply can't be replicated unless you have Belichick and Brady. I've always like the Seattle model. Competition at all positions, front office and coach in lockstep, a simple defensive scheme that relies on defenders winning 1-1, franchise QB who can make plays with his legs and arm. Outside of terrible offensive line play, I think it's a great model for an organization. Edited October 29, 2018 by TheElectricCompany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Cultures to emulate or so I am told. Patriots Steelers Alabama All of those teams have one thing in common. They have more talent than most if not all. Patriots start and end with Tom Brady. Steelers when Big Ben goes will have a hard time being a consistent playoff contender. Alabama consistently has the best players in all of teh NCAA its not hard for them to constantly win. Can someone define what their culture is? IS culture, "one of eleven", "Do your job", "the patriot way." "The process"/ They are all the damn same. All teams strive winning, not F_*(^ up off the field and doing your best, the difference is talent. Talent wins. Culture gets you the 2018 Buffalo Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 On 10/26/2018 at 7:34 AM, PlayoffsPlease said: The Steelers as an organization have had success across three head coaches, Noll, Cowher and Tomlin. But it should be noted that prior to Bradshaw's arrival, the Steelers were bottom dwellers in the league for many years. And that in between the Bradshaw era and the Rothlisberger eras, the Steelers struggled quite a bit. With only the two data points of the Steelers and the Patriots, it seems as though winning culture would be defined by having superior coaching and superior QB play. It seems like without both, there may not be some concept of "culture" that can substitute and lead to winning. The Steelers went to the SB with Neil O'Donnell at QB, were a playoff team with both Bubby Brister and Tommy Maddox, it wasn't pretty before the arrival of Big Ben for the Steelers but things weren't terrible, they always had dominant defense with game managing offense after Bradshaw and before big Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Bengals. Vikings. Texans. Panthers. Seahawks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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