Josh Allen looks on par with this year’s other rookie QBs

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

They could have Carr next year if they want.  He was the golden boy, and now looks like he's on the way out of Oakland.

 

Give Allen time. 

I also clearly stated that I want Allen to play more.

 

My gut tells me that the initial returns (5 games worth) are he is the same guy we saw in Wyoming. 

 

But I also don't want Bills fans to hand out extra credit for run of the mill plays.

 

This offense flat lined after the Vikings game. How could there be any other conclusion? The team was shutout in Green Bay, had 13 against Tennessee and Allen had the Bills at 3 points against the Texans before he left. 

 

Hopefully Allen gets back out there and keeps playing. And for sure he'll get (and should get) the start in 2019 with improved personnel around him. 

 

 

I agree with the OP that Allen needs to learn NFL open and improve pre-snap ability to read a defense. Of course the latter will take time. No final judgement on Allen there. 

 

 

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

10 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

He threw two great 40 yard passes in a little more than a half on Sunday. Was not his fault a FB lined up as a WR on the opposite side of the field which had nothing to do with the play was not lined up correctly.

Even if we go ahead and give him an extra 100 yards on the season his YPA jumps to 6.7 which is still a .25 of a point below Mayfield and Rosen. And both those QBs would still be outperforming Allen in TD%, Int% and sack %. The sack % isn't even close.

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I also clearly stated that I want Allen to play more.

 

My gut tells me that the initial returns (5 games worth) are he is the same guy we saw in Wyoming. 

 

But I also don't want Bills fans to hand out extra credit for run of the mill plays.

 

This offense flat lined after the Vikings game. How could there be any other conclusion? The team was shutout in Green Bay, had 13 against Tennessee and Allen had the Bills at 3 points against the Texans before he left. 

 

Hopefully Allen gets back out there and keeps playing. And for sure he'll get (and should get) the start in 2019 with improved personnel around him. 

 

 

I agree with the OP that Allen needs to learn NFL open and improve pre-snap ability to read a defense. Of course the latter will take time. No final judgement on Allen there. 

 

 

 

 

I looked at each passing play from Sunday's first half, and what I saw was that he was more accurate especially on short throws than he was earlier in the year.  And he was getting the ball out quick and was more decisive, although that may have been related to play calls.  I'm seeing him make moves in the right direction.

[Elite Poster]

My guy is struggling to clear the 100 yard bar, can't identify simple blitz pick ups, bails on clean pockets, is gun shy, is the second worse QB throwing on the run, averages more yards rushing than passing (hello Tyrod Jr), and has the most 25+ yard throw attempts with the lowest 25+ yard completion %.

 

What in the world are you watching? He had one good game and honestly has looked worse in the last 3 compared to the Chargers and Ravens. He has 1 good throw per half. He needs to have a few good throws per drive. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Elite Poster

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Even if we go ahead and give him an extra 100 yards on the season his YPA jumps to 6.7 which is still a .25 of a point below Mayfield and Rosen. And both those QBs would still be outperforming Allen in TD%, Int% and sack %. The sack % isn't even close.

Raw stats like that are less than worthless. If you put Allen on the Browns with Jackson and Haley and Landry and that line he would be doing far better, and if you put Mayfield with McD and Daboll and Culley and Benjamin and Zay he would be doing much worse. And I have watched every play of his and he is no better than Allen. 

[Troll Toll]

I guess I still don’t understand how people can crown Deshaun Watson a stud, demolish Josh Allen, watch a game where they play each other and not grasp the irony of Josh Allen outplaying him. Watson has arguably the best receiver in the NFL at his disposal. There seems to be a lot of irrational opinions on how Josh is developing. Brady won a Super Bowl MVP throwing for 135 yards.

[Elite Poster]

I'm convinced you don't watch the games and just want to be positive. Sans the one half against the Vikings, he has been outright, clearly the worst passer of the first round QBs besides Lamar who isn't playing. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

Raw stats like that are less than worthless. If you put Allen on the Browns with Jackson and Haley and Landry and that line he would be doing far better, and if you put Mayfield with McD and Daboll and Culley and Benjamin and Zay he would be doing much worse. And I have watched every play of his and he is no better than Allen. 

That's all hypothetical. The only thing that is true that we have to go off of are the raw stats. I'm done with making excuses for our bad QBs. Just put up good numbers, heck I'll even take slightly below average for a rookie season.

[Elite Poster]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Raw stats like that are less than worthless. If you put Allen on the Browns with Jackson and Haley and Landry and that line he would be doing far better, and if you put Mayfield with McD and Daboll and Culley and Benjamin and Zay he would be doing much worse. And I have watched every play of his and he is no better than Allen. 

 

So he would step up into the pocket, read defenses better, not takeoff running from clean pockets, and have magically better accuracy if the color of his jersey was different?

[oldmanfan]

I haven't watched the other guys much.  I did watch Rosen for about a half two weekends ago, because he was the guy I was hoping they'd take.  I saw him overthrow several guys, got happy feet a little in the pocket.  Wasn't as on target as I thought he'd be.  Did seem to be ahead o f Allen in terms of reads and getting the ball out on time.

 

Bottom line:  pluses and minuses like all young QBs.

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

That's all hypothetical. The only thing that is true that we have to go off of are the raw stats. I'm done with making excuses for our bad QBs. Just put up good numbers, heck I'll even take slightly below average for a rookie season.

Because coaching and teammates have nothing to do with performance.

[Elite Poster]

1 minute ago, Troll Toll said:

I guess I still don’t understand how people can crown Deshaun Watson a stud, demolish Josh Allen, watch a game where they play each other and not grasp the irony of Josh Allen outplaying him. Watson has arguably the best receiver in the NFL at his disposal. There seems to be a lot of irrational opinions on how Josh is developing. Brady won a Super Bowl MVP throwing for 135 yards.

 

Watson gives you the same production in 6 games with Allen in 2 games.

 

Look at the niners, they have nobody on that offense but CJ freaking Beathard can at least slide up in a clean pocket, identify the coverage pre snap, and deliver a couple good balls per drive. I'm not asking for much especially from a rookie but he looks DIII/Junior Varsity.

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Because coaching and teammates have nothing to do with performance.

 

So when he can't hit an open WR you blame someone else?? Why didn't these excuses work for Tyrod? Same *****, different day. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

Because coaching and teammates have nothing to do with performance.

So coaching and teammates has been the problem since Kelly retired? Or is it more likely we just haven't had a good QB in that time span? Again, I'm not making excuses. A good QB will rise to the top regardless of circumstances. Sure coaching and personnel can help. But you either have it or you don't as well. Let's just find a guy that has it. Enough of the excuses.

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, Elite Poster said:

 

So he would step up into the pocket, read defenses better, not takeoff running from clean pockets, and have magically better accuracy if the color of his jersey was different?

Newsflash. Better coaching and better surrounding players = better performance.

                     Worse coaching and worse surrounding players = worse surrounding performance.

At least that has been the trend since sports were invented 4000 years ago.

[Elite Poster]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

Newsflash. Better coaching and better surrounding players = better performance.

                     Worse coaching and worse surrounding players = worse surrounding performance.

At least that has been the trend since sports were invented 4000 years ago.

 

Newsflash, just watch the All-22. He HAS guys open, he HAS clean pockets, and he's making awful mistakes. Is his supporting cast great? Hell no. Are there opportunities to make plays? Hell yes! You just keep reiterating yourself instead of actually responding to these points and making this a meaningful conversation. You are stuck in your own ignorance. Don't bother responding. 

[IronyAbounds]

4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

It would be sooo nice to get out of QB purgatory some day... 

 

I wish just getting the right QB would do that, but without a decent OL and decent receivers it's always hard to tell. In any event, the FO completely botched the QB situation this year so any cannons that are armed and ready to fire should be aimed at the FO and McDermott.

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, Elite Poster said:

 

Newsflash, just watch the All-22. He HAS guys open, he HAS clean pockets, and he's making awful mistakes. Is his supporting cast great? Hell no. Are there opportunities to make plays? Hell yes! You just keep reiterating yourself instead of actually responding to these points and making this a meaningful conversation. You are stuck in your own ignorance. Don't bother responding. 

I watch it. It's awesome. And a curse for people who don't know what they are watching, or claim guys are wide open a second after the QB has already looked at them when they weren't open and on to his second or third progression. 

[thebandit27]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

I watch it. It's awesome. And a curse for people who don't know what they are watching, or claim guys are wide open a second after the QB has already looked at them when they weren't open and on to his second or third progression. 

 

Yeah, but what do you know?

 

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Yeah, but what do you know?

 

Less than you, more than most others.

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I watch it. It's awesome. And a curse for people who don't know what they are watching, or claim guys are wide open a second after the QB has already looked at them when they weren't open and on to his second or third progression. 

 

I enjoy the all-22s for what they are, which is a good view of how plays are designed and how they develop. But they are being wildly misused by internet scouts. I saw someone on Twitter last week breaking down an all-22 for Aaron Rodgers against the Redskins and pointing out all these open receivers he should have thrown the ball to. Somehow I trust Aaron Rodgers's progressions and knowledge of the play over some guy with an overhead view of the entire field.