John from Riverside Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 minute ago, NewDayBills said: They've completely neglected offense. I reaaaaaally thought we had a nice draft, but if you wanted to draft defense should have splurged big money on offense in FA. WHAT big money sir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 minute ago, NewDayBills said: They've completely neglected offense. I reaaaaaally thought we had a nice draft, but if you wanted to draft defense should have splurged big money on offense in FA. They didn't have a ton of $$ in free agency. Recall they got gashed in the run game last year so they tried to shore that up. Having Richie lose it really hurt. And why Groy fell apart remains a mystery. I anticipate heavy emphasis on the offense next offseason. If not I will be quite critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wroughting Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Sorry but you're wrong again. A non-profit health care organization first of all. Second our culture is simple: it's about the patient. We pursue a ton of strategies such as smiling when with patients, making sure they can get into a doc's office with 24 hours, many others. But every single strategy is influenced by having a culture where the needs of the patient are placed first. You bring up the Rams. Is their success culture or strategy? And why do they have to be mutually exclusive? A non profit organization still has to make money... nothing is free. And if you don't have to compete to make money, then this is a non sequitur. Again you keep conflating culture with strategy and strategy with tactics. Culture, what ever it is, is a by product of your strategy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: They didn't have a ton of $$ in free agency. Recall they got gashed in the run game last year so they tried to shore that up. Having Richie lose it really hurt. And why Groy fell apart remains a mystery. I anticipate heavy emphasis on the offense next offseason. If not I will be quite critical. I do like Lotulelei, not a big fan of Murphy though, would have liked to get a WR with that money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Wroughting said: A non profit organization still has to make money... nothing is free. And if you don't have to compete to make money, then this is a non sequitur. Again you keep conflating culture with strategy and strategy with tactics. Culture, what ever it is, is a by product of your strategy. We'll have to agree to disagree. I know what happened in our organization and how that cultural shift set into play a number of strategic changes that have improved our market share. And I think you can walk into any successful organization and ask them about culture and they will be able to clearly define it for their organization and how it dtives success. Actually, someone should have asked McD that yesterday. Just now, NewDayBills said: I do like Lotulelei, not a big fan of Murphy though, would have liked to get a WR with that money. Yeah, I could agree there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 4 hours ago, billsfan89 said: KB is making 8.5 million and he is off the books after this season. Sammy is due 32 million in 2019 and 2020. Star's cap hit this season is 6.5 million much lower than Dareus's but had Dareus stayed with the Bills he would be a 15 million dollar cap hit in 2019 and 2020 whereas Star is a 10 million dollar cap hit. Once again if the Bills had Sammy, Dareus, Tyrod, Darby, and Glenn are they a contender? I am also not defending the Star contract or the ability for McBeane to sign pro-talent. However that doesn't mean the philsophy of getting draft capital and dumping players on big contracts wasn't the right move in philsophy. The Bills holding onto aging injury prone talent to win a little more in the short term wouldn't help the team. Sammy Watkins can catch passes. Benjamin would be the poster-boy for "stone handed WR" except that Zay Jones has on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, SoTier said: Sammy Watkins can catch passes. Benjamin would be the poster-boy for "stone handed WR" except that Zay Jones has on that. NO ONE IS DISPUTING SAMMY WATKINS IS A BETTER PLAYER THAN KB. What I am saying is Sammy is vastly overpaid and we got a 2nd round pick plus a good corner for him. Do you think the missing piece to a Bills championship are Sammy Watkins at 16 million per-season and Cordy Glenn and Dareus around 13 million per? 14 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: I do like Lotulelei, not a big fan of Murphy though, would have liked to get a WR with that money. I think they could have gotten a similar player like Lotulelei for much cheaper. Dude is going to be a huge cap hit next year and I honestly think there were players out on the market that could have done what he does for 5-6 million less annual average. Murphy is at least an easy contract to get out of. The Bills are likely unable to get out of Star's deal until 2020 and more realistically 2021. Edited October 4, 2018 by billsfan89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBill Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 This team - the one on the field now - is not 2-3 players from a SB... We need a WR1, a Center, at least one Guard, a RT, TE, WR3, and we need a CB2 to complement White and at least one OLB. It really did suck that we lost Wood to injury and Ritchie to some sort of mental instability issue. Maybe that was there all along, but he really seemed past that for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 28 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: They didn't have a ton of $$ in free agency. Recall they got gashed in the run game last year so they tried to shore that up. Having Richie lose it really hurt. And why Groy fell apart remains a mystery. I anticipate heavy emphasis on the offense next offseason. If not I will be quite critical. It’s not just emphasis, it’s that they are in such rough shape, they need to hit on most, if not close to all FA and draft picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: I think they could have gotten a similar player like Lotulelei for much cheaper. Dude is going to be a huge cap hit next year and I honestly think there were players out on the market that could have done what he does for 5-6 million less annual average. Murphy is at least an easy contract to get out of. The Bills are likely unable to get out of Star's deal until 2020 and more realistically 2021. I think Lotulelei's contract is fair, I may be in the minority there but 10m per year for high end run stuffer is palatable. Were there better options? Perhaps, but I saw Damon Harrison get a similar contract so I know what Star got is not as over the top as fans make it out to be. Should have overpaid John Brown to come here with Murphy's money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mango said: It’s not just emphasis, it’s that they are in such rough shape, they need to hit on most, if not close to all FA and draft picks True. I am optimistic about the draft. They got some good young talent last year(assuming McD called the shots) and this past spring. As for free agents I expect they won't spend a boatload of cash on one guy but get several solid players. I want to see O line prioritized. And get a good WR. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 No Culture Club videos yet? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 33 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: They didn't have a ton of $$ in free agency. Recall they got gashed in the run game last year so they tried to shore that up. Having Richie lose it really hurt. And why Groy fell apart remains a mystery. I anticipate heavy emphasis on the offense next offseason. If not I will be quite critical. Who's fault is it that they have $53+ million in dead cap space and gaping holes on both sides of the ball? Keeping Dareus would have kept them from being "gashed in the run game" last year and this -- and cut their dead cap space to about $40 million. Wood was 30 in 2017, and Incognito was 34 or 35. Maybe they should have drafted an OLer with the extra pick they gave up to move up to take Jones and taken some other WR -- I believe that Smith-Shuster might have still been available when the Bills would have picked. Groy was a career backup, but the reason he "fell apart" is likely because he's not playing the same blocking scheme that he played in 2016 when he looked at least semi-competent. That's on the coaching staff because it seems apparent that the Bills OLers still haven't come close to mastering the zone blocking system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: No Culture Club videos yet? Brilliant Shady! That SHOULD end this thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I want to see O line prioritized. And get a good WR. We need a veteran WR, we need to draft one too though. I'd back up the Brinks truck on a reliable classy #1. An 8m/yr wideout may cost us 11.5 and I hope Beane understands. We will absolutely have to overspend, but we have to. Don't play moneyball, they'll sign somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Just now, SoTier said: Who's fault is it that they have $53+ million in dead cap space and gaping holes on both sides of the ball? Keeping Dareus would have kept them from being "gashed in the run game" last year and this -- and cut their dead cap space to about $40 million. Wood was 30 in 2017, and Incognito was 34 or 35. Maybe they should have drafted an OLer with the extra pick they gave up to move up to take Jones and taken some other WR -- I believe that Smith-Shuster might have still been available when the Bills would have picked. Groy was a career backup, but the reason he "fell apart" is likely because he's not playing the same blocking scheme that he played in 2016 when he looked at least semi-competent. That's on the coaching staff because it seems apparent that the Bills OLers still haven't come close to mastering the zone blocking system. Blah, blah, blah. How many times does it have to be said they planned to clear cap space and they're doing it quickly? You don't like it. Too bad. Dareus has like 8 tackles in 4 games this year, played like crap with us last year despite the biggest contract, so they got rid of him. You don't like it. Too bad. Yes it was their choice to clear space. Which left them less to pursue FAs. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Andy Reid doesn't think Watkins is overpaid... and considering the market for WRs and the state of our putrid WR corps, it would've been wise to give Sammy what he got. That is such bull ****. Sammy is on pace to put up 704 yards, 4 TD's, and 56 receptions, if the Bills were paying Sammy 16 million to put up those numbers you would be crushing the Bills for overpaying for a guy who was hyped in college but didn't do that much to justify 6 million dollars less than Mack. Your logic is absurd, our guys suck so we should have overpaid for Watkins? Come on you have to do better than that. The Bills WR core is trash so Sammy being better than trash is hardly justification for why we should have overpaid for him. I would rather have the pick, a year of good corner back play, and massive amounts of cap space to work with than a guy whose only justification for his salary you have given is that he is better than the trash on the team now. Honestly what would the Bills record be if they had Sammy instead of KB, Darby, Glenn, Tyrod, and Dareus instead of Star and Edumonds (I think that without the extra picks and draft spots they don't have enough to trade up for Allen and Edumonds, they probably have to give up picks 21, 22, and 53 to trade up for Allen?) At best they are 2-2, but in all likelihood they could still currently be 1-3. What is the difference with those players on the roster? Right now we win 3-5 games maybe with those players we go 7-9? You are acting like the Bills got nothing for these players and they are the difference between the Bills being in the Superbowl and where they are now. Yes they are better but being modestly better in 2018 doesn't help this team that much to build to a contender long term. I don't know if McBeane will use the cap space wisely but I think the philsophy of clear the space while getting the rookie QB is one that has been proven to be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: Brilliant Shady! That SHOULD end this thread. 26 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: No Culture Club videos yet? Edited October 4, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Blah, blah, blah. How many times does it have to be said they planned to clear cap space and they're doing it quickly? You don't like it. Too bad. Dareus has like 8 tackles in 4 games this year, played like crap with us last year despite the biggest contract, so they got rid of him. You don't like it. Too bad. Yes it was their choice to clear space. Which left them less to pursue FAs. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. It is what it is. People act like rebuilds aren't done this way. Yes the Bills took it to a more extreme level but the Dead cap is also some bad luck with the InCog and Wood retirements. I also love the fans that act like this team would be a Super Bowl contender with Glenn, Dareus, Sammy, Tyrod, and Darby. This team is bad and some of the talent moves like Star and KB have been questionable but they didn't gut a team that would have been anything better than 8-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julio Hopkins Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 39 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: NO ONE IS DISPUTING SAMMY WATKINS IS A BETTER PLAYER THAN KB. What I am saying is Sammy is vastly overpaid and we got a 2nd round pick plus a good corner for him. Do you think the missing piece to a Bills championship are Sammy Watkins at 16 million per-season and Cordy Glenn and Dareus around 13 million per? I think they could have gotten a similar player like Lotulelei for much cheaper. Dude is going to be a huge cap hit next year and I honestly think there were players out on the market that could have done what he does for 5-6 million less annual average. Murphy is at least an easy contract to get out of. The Bills are likely unable to get out of Star's deal until 2020 and more realistically 2021. Sammy, Cordy, and Dareus do add to a winning effort. Interestingly enough, all three teams are they play for are winning. Lotulelei is a significantly less impactful player than Dareus and it shows, same can be said for the replacements for Sammy and Cordy. I love the money argument people go with while we have one of the weakest rosters in the NFL. Especially considering guys like Robert Woods, "we can't pay for a number 2 receiver!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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