Who wants to try and win this year, and who wants to see development?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

20 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Apparently so. We can't let facts get in the way.

That would be silly. 

[Albany,n.y.]

You do what the 2004 NY Giants did.  They started the veteran (Warner) the 1st 9 games.  Then at 5-4, on a 2 game losing streak, they threw in Eli Manning, even though he wasn't ready.  It worked out well & the Giants won 2 Super Bowls and Manning is still their QB in 2018.  The rest of the story is Eli lost his 1st 6 games, sometimes looking totally lost in his 1st 4 starts.  In the last 3 games of the season, the light came on and even though it took until the season finale for the Giants to win their 6th game, the experience was invaluable to Manning.  The next year the Giants won the NFC East going 11-5.  

 

The goal is to become Super Bowl champs, not mollify the fans who don't have the patience to go to a game and see the team lose even though in a year or two that loss will have helped build a championship contender and an eventual champion. 

[3rdand12]

22 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Amen and double Amen.

 

I just wanna win as many games as possible. while many were pissed because we went to playoffs last year and lost in the first round.  I thought it was awesome because it made the stretch run of November and December fun for once.  I want to do it again this year.  Winning is fun.  Losing sucks.

 

Besides, I don't know about the rest of yall, but I'm getting older by the minute. I've done enough losing for one lifetime and I've only been a bills fan since 1996.

 

 

every bit of this.

But as Jauranimo said, they are not exclusive.

 Trying to win every day is the cadence. Winning the games will come.

But never let off the gas when building a Team. 

 Rebuilding is going to take hold and bear fruit ( i hope) after next off season.

 Till then ? play to win with what god gave ya

Edited August 28, 2018 by 3rdand12

[reddogblitz]

Just now, 3rdand12 said:

every bit of this.

But as Jauranimo said, they are not exclusive.

 Trying to win every day is the cadence. Winning the games will come.

But never let off the gas when building a Team. 

 Rebuilding is going to take hold and bear fruit ( i hope) after next off season.

 Till then play to win with what god gave ya

 

If I had any confidence that the Bills could purposefully take a step back in order to take a step forward I might be for it.  But I don't.  It took us many years trying to recover from Gailey's first 4-12 "rebuilding" season.

 

Besides, we need players that know how to win.  You only that if they win.

 

Just win. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Outside of stats, what is production?  How are you measuring it?

 

NP played 2 series (game 1) with and against 1st team players.  He threw a TD in 1 and a pick in the next.  That was it.  Is it meaningful that he was never facing the pressure JA was facing Sunday while he racked up "amazingly consistent" productivity against players who won't make the rosters of teams he played?

 

My point is that, for me (not being privy to practice sessions), it's hard to say that a guy who hasn't been challenged this preseason in any significant way has actually demonstrated superiority against Allen. 

 

Allen won't learn the game or correct his issues by watching, from the sidelines, a guy who has a half game career under his belt.

We have a  bingo!

[Mr. WEO]

26 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

You do what the 2004 NY Giants did.  They started the veteran (Warner) the 1st 9 games.  Then at 5-4, on a 2 game losing streak, they threw in Eli Manning, even though he wasn't ready.  It worked out well & the Giants won 2 Super Bowls and Manning is still their QB in 2018.  The rest of the story is Eli lost his 1st 6 games, sometimes looking totally lost in his 1st 4 starts.  In the last 3 games of the season, the light came on and even though it took until the season finale for the Giants to win their 6th game, the experience was invaluable to Manning.  The next year the Giants won the NFC East going 11-5.  

 

The goal is to become Super Bowl champs, not mollify the fans who don't have the patience to go to a game and see the team lose even though in a year or two that loss will have helped build a championship contender and an eventual champion. 

 

 

Fine.  Go call Kurt Warner and see if he's available.

 

At this point, Peterman isn't even Warner the grocery bagger.

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Fine.  Go call Kurt Warner and see if he's available.

 

At this point, Peterman isn't even Warner the grocery bagger.

Yeah there is probably a difference between sitting behind Peterman who has only started 2 games and Kurt Warner who's won a Super Bowl.

 

So looking at this whole argument the idea is that initially Peterman gives you a better chance to win in early games but Allen won't develop as quickly. Alternatively starting Allen will have lower chances of winning initially while he'll develop quicker.

 

So my thoughts on this are the whole point is to win that last game in February and the more Allen develops the better the chances of that. So I guess the question comes down to for me whether Allen has worse odds than Peterman of winning for so long that the Bills get disqualified from the Playoffs otherwise he should probably start.

[PlayoffsPlease]

22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Fine.  Go call Kurt Warner and see if he's available.

 

At this point, Peterman isn't even Warner the grocery bagger.

Mr. Weo is on fire. Everyone study his posts. Adopt his views. This will bring peace and tranquility to TBD. 

[Green Lightning]

31 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Mr. Weo is on fire. Everyone study his posts. Adopt his views. This will bring peace and tranquility to TBD. 

If only we all understood that volume and bile were greater than logic we would all live together in his world peacefully!

[PlayoffsPlease]

13 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

If only we all understood that volume and bile were greater than logic we would all live together in his world peacefully!

Just follow Mr. Weo's lead and you should be fine. 

[Mr. WEO]

52 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Mr. Weo is on fire. Everyone study his posts. Adopt his views. This will bring peace and tranquility to TBD. 

 

 

namaste...

20 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

If only we all understood that volume and bile were greater than logic we would all live together in his world peacefully!

 

There's really no bile in my posts on this.  Pretty straightforward reasoning.

[Solomon Grundy]

Win

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

Yeah there is probably a difference between sitting behind Peterman who has only started 2 games and Kurt Warner who's won a Super Bowl.

 

So looking at this whole argument the idea is that initially Peterman gives you a better chance to win in early games but Allen won't develop as quickly. Alternatively starting Allen will have lower chances of winning initially while he'll develop quicker.

 

So my thoughts on this are the whole point is to win that last game in February and the more Allen develops the better the chances of that. So I guess the question comes down to for me whether Allen has worse odds than Peterman of winning for so long that the Bills get disqualified from the Playoffs otherwise he should probably start.

 

I agree except I really don't see where it became clear that NP gives the Bills the best chance to win beginning week 1.

 

Backup doing backup stuff.

[3rdand12]

 Our Dear Mr Weo ? I enjoy his temperament and sense of fun plus some chuckles in between. and don't be fooled. Likely a Bills Fan 

58 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Mr. Weo is on fire. Everyone study his posts. Adopt his views. This will bring peace and tranquility to TBD. 

is this The Hypnotoad speaking ?

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I agree except I really don't see where it became clear that NP gives the Bills the best chance to win beginning week 1.

 

Backup doing backup stuff.

I'm not saying that's accurate so much as that is the argument being made. I was mostly making the point that whatever short term gains you might get from not starting Allen might not be greater than the gains you get further into the season with Allen.

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I'm not saying that's accurate so much as that is the argument being made. I was mostly making the point that whatever short term gains you might get from not starting Allen might not be greater than the gains you get further into the season with Allen.

 

 

The problem with the "just start NP until JA is ready" argument is obvious:  what happens if the Bills lose half or more of their games in the first 6-8 weeks behind NP?  THAT'S the time to push JA into the deep end?  Go in and there and salvage the season!!

 

Why is that a better time to drop him in?  Wouldn't it be better to have him start (and possibly lose the same amount of games in that same period) week 1?  

 

NP isn't Kurt Warner.  He's not Brett Favre, Tom Brady, Drew Brees.  You start your top 10 draft pick at QB, unless one of these types of vets is on the roster.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Mr. WEO

[3rdand12]

11 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I'm not saying that's accurate so much as that is the argument being made. I was mostly making the point that whatever short term gains you might get from not starting Allen might not be greater than the gains you get further into the season with Allen.

It is a close argument really. There is No proven formula. Each QB is as individual as another. Coachings staff and how they synergize with the Rookie.
 

Its sound small and selfish

 I don't want Allen to get physically mauled and injured, or mentally and emotionally broken from having  very very poor blocking and WRs who cannot come free soon enough if at all.

Yikes.
I would prefer they sacrifice the guy they paid to come on board AJ M. sorry kid.
By that time they should know where Allen is. and still have Peterman if another sacrifice is needed.

Edited August 28, 2018 by 3rdand12

[Warcodered]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

The problem with the "just start NP until JA is ready" argument is obvious:  what happens if the Bills lose half or more of their games in the first 6-8 weeks behind NP?  THAT'S the time to push JA into the deep end?  Go in and there and salvage the season!!

 

Why is that a better time to drop him in?  Wouldn't it be better to have him start (and possibly lose the same amount of games in that same period) week 1?  

 

NP isn't Kurt Warner.  He's not Brett Favre, Tom Brady, Drew Brees.  You start your top 10 draft pick at QB, unless one of these types of vets is on the roster.

 

I'd say that is a big issue with that as one of the things I've seen repeated over and over again on this board is how the first four games of this season are going to rough. Nathan Peterman with only two career starts is going to pull something off there?

 

5 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

It is a close argument really. There is No proven formula. Each QB is as individual as another. Coachings staff and how they synergize with the Rookie.
 

Its sound small and selfish

 I don't want Allen to get physically mauled and injured, or mentally and emotionally broken from having  very very poor blocking and WRs who cannot come free soon enough if at all.

Yikes.
I would prefer they sacrifice the guy they paid to come on board AJ M. sorry kid.
By that time they should know where Allen is. and still have Peterman if another sacrifice is needed.

The problem I see with that is they already wanted to see him against starters in Pre Season game 3 how else are they to gauge his readiness than to play him.

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

It is a close argument really. There is No proven formula. Each QB is as individual as another. Coachings staff and how they synergize with the Rookie.
 

Its sound small and selfish

 I don't want Allen to get physically mauled and injured, or mentally and emotionally broken from having  very very poor blocking and WRs who cannot come free soon enough if at all.

Yikes.
I would prefer they sacrifice the guy they paid to come on board AJ M. sorry kid.
By that time they should know where Allen is. and still have Peterman if another sacrifice is needed.

 

 

JA is faster and stronger and bigger than Peterman.  He will suffer less behind that line as it gets better.  NP has really yet to play behind that line in any meaningful way.  

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

JA is faster and stronger and bigger than Peterman.  He will suffer less behind that line as it gets better.  NP has really yet to play behind that line in any meaningful way.  

i am not sure anyone has , i suppose then.

 every rep should have some meaning and reason why.

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

 

I'd say that is a big issue with that as one of the things I've seen repeated over and over again on this board is how the first four games of this season are going to rough. Nathan Peterman with only two career starts is going to pull something off there?

 

The problem I see with that is they already wanted to see him against starters in Pre Season game 3 how else are they to gauge his readiness than to play him.

Is that how you feel about Peterman last year ?

 

 perhaps is more about getting Dabolls offense up and running. Even Allen said he had trouble diagnosing the Bengals. and we saw that. In hindsight for sure.
There is more to the Offense than QB of course.
Did you notice the issue with Allens cadence and Millers errors. He was not the only one who left early or late.
 

Patience, grasshoppers