Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 On 8/9/2018 at 10:06 AM, joesixpack said: they're even linking viruses to alzheimers. Expand Ha, that's actually what I said, amyloid beta or abeta, is the protein involved in the Alzheimers plaques. I just didn't spell that out. On 8/9/2018 at 11:44 AM, Rochesterfan said: I believe they will find something genetic in the end that makes certain players more susceptible (similar to the narrowing of the spinal column that caused paralysis for some players) and that combined with both the physical toll (oxygen depletion- banging of the brain - etc.) increases the risk factors. I will not argue that concussions and repeatedly getting blows to the head are bad for you long term and may have some impact, but I have always thought it stupid that a big deal has been made that in people with suspected CTE that donated their brains and CTE was found - they made assumptions with no control groups, no studies of brains in healthy football players, no studies of CTE brains in non-athletes, nothing to make it scientific and provide real insight. Expand The genetic component is likely - there are already genetic mutations identified that make people susceptible to Alzheimers. If it's true that amyloid beta has an antiviral role in the CNS, virus exposure may also play a role (keep in mind a number of athletes have both opportunity and inclination to play the field, which increases viral exposure, the conditions in locker rooms are probably also conducive to spread of cold sore viruses etc) Playing style may also have a role I agree with you that "CTE has been found in all donated brains studied to date" is not a value-added statement, since healthy chaps aren't donating their brains. The problem is it's difficult to find age-matched healthy brain donations. Scientific double-blind studies are legit hard to achieve here. 1
Freddie's Dead Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 "Relatively small sample". It's a ridiculously small sample given the target audience. Since CTE can only be diagnosed with a brain autopsy, I'm not sure what the UB researchers are up to. You can't diagnose CTE in an interview.
Mr. WEO Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 On 8/9/2018 at 12:40 PM, Freddie's Dead said: "Relatively small sample". It's a ridiculously small sample given the target audience. Since CTE can only be diagnosed with a brain autopsy at Boston University, I'm not sure what the UB researchers are up to. You can't diagnose CTE in an interview. Expand Fixed.
Bing Bong Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) On 8/9/2018 at 12:34 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: Playing style may also have a role Expand Absolutely. Injuries, injury prone people really aren't using the right form often. Of course there's freak collisions and headhunting, but that goes back to form. Defenders and blockers shouldn't be head hunting, their ****ing up their own brains. Patrice O'Neal famously said they'd celebrate over paralyzed players take their socks off and tie it around their helmets to indimidate other teams. The good ole days. Comedic bit from high school football. But it got me thinking if we could get Gronk's socks off and tie it around Tremaine Edmunds facemask Edited August 9, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks 1
apuszczalowski Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 Well until they get a Hollywood movie starring Will Smith made about it, I dont believe it...... Well maybe if a former Vice President makes a documentary about it I can get on board but I would be a bit sceptical. On 8/9/2018 at 12:57 PM, PetermanThrew5Picks said: WELL WHAT ABOUT RITCHIE Expand He might be the first person to ever be born with CTE 2 1
DC Tom Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 On 8/9/2018 at 11:22 AM, CLTbills said: While I think this is (possibly) great news that it's not nearly as common as we thought.... Haven't we been told over and over that the only way to confirm CTE was for the person to be dead and you have to actually examine the brain? How the hell did they do a study with LIVING people, and go, "whelp, no CTE!" Expand They look for early-onset dementia. On the one hand, the quality of the study is increased because you're far more likely to get a more diverse sample of people participating (since healthy people are less likely to voluntarily donate their brains post-mortem for study.) But on the other hand...they're looking for symptomatic markers of the disease, which isn't as reliable. Ultimately, though, anything to do with the brain is a complex subject, and can't be boiled down to any single study.
hondo in seattle Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 "Of the total 21 participants, eight of the athletes were former Bills, and 14 were Sabres." I'm searching my memory and coming up empty. Who's the one guy in the study who played for both the Bills and the Sabres??? ? 2
Rochesterfan Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 On 8/9/2018 at 12:34 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: Ha, that's actually what I said, amyloid beta or abeta, is the protein involved in the Alzheimers plaques. I just didn't spell that out. The genetic component is likely - there are already genetic mutations identified that make people susceptible to Alzheimers. If it's true that amyloid beta has an antiviral role in the CNS, virus exposure may also play a role (keep in mind a number of athletes have both opportunity and inclination to play the field, which increases viral exposure, the conditions in locker rooms are probably also conducive to spread of cold sore viruses etc) Playing style may also have a role I agree with you that "CTE has been found in all donated brains studied to date" is not a value-added statement, since healthy chaps aren't donating their brains. The problem is it's difficult to find age-matched healthy brain donations. Scientific double-blind studies are legit hard to achieve here. Expand I totally agree - double blind studies on donated brains is nearly impossible. That is why it is critical to find markers in the blood or using brain scans that can help identify this in live patients. I think with all of the baseline testing and scans being done now on athletes that this data will begin to help shape the discussion and it is data that can be conducted on healthy people also to see if similar changes occur in non contact athletes and general population. On 8/9/2018 at 3:38 PM, hondo in seattle said: "Of the total 21 participants, eight of the athletes were former Bills, and 14 were Sabres." I'm searching my memory and coming up empty. Who's the one guy in the study who played for both the Bills and the Sabres??? ? Expand Of of course it is Russ Brandon the devil himself (lol) ? 1
Saxum Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 On 8/9/2018 at 11:54 AM, Rochesterfan said: I think long term - concussions will be linked to some of the mood swings and memory loss players experience depending on what part of the brain gets bruised and injuried. It is obvious that getting lit up and suffering a concussion is bad, but it may not be the driver to CTE it was touted to be years ago. I can’t wait to see more studies on this from both sides. More research was always needed. Expand And many of those with issues had issues prior to even playing in college football. I see some, especially laywers, that is a cash cow to be milked forever. 2
Dablitzkrieg Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) On 8/9/2018 at 3:38 PM, hondo in seattle said: "Of the total 21 participants, eight of the athletes were former Bills, and 14 were Sabres." I'm searching my memory and coming up empty. Who's the one guy in the study who played for both the Bills and the Sabres??? ? Expand Last time I checked, 8+14=22, so good ? Edited August 9, 2018 by Dablitzkrieg
bbb Posted August 9, 2018 Author Posted August 9, 2018 Quote 4 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said: "Relatively small sample". It's a ridiculously small sample given the target audience. Since CTE can only be diagnosed with a brain autopsy at Boston University, I'm not sure what the UB researchers are up to. You can't diagnose CTE in an interview. Expand On 8/9/2018 at 12:58 PM, Mr. WEO said: Fixed. Expand Exactly! Ironic that UB is the opposite of BU. I'm sure the truth is in between, but I'm so skeptical of BU finding 99.9% of the brains to have CTE. The idea that seem to have no control groups is what bothers me the most.
Bing Bong Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 On 8/9/2018 at 3:38 PM, hondo in seattle said: "Of the total 21 participants, eight of the athletes were former Bills, and 14 were Sabres." I'm searching my memory and coming up empty. Who's the one guy in the study who played for both the Bills and the Sabres??? ? Expand Kyle Williams obsv
bbb Posted August 9, 2018 Author Posted August 9, 2018 On 8/9/2018 at 3:38 PM, hondo in seattle said: "Of the total 21 participants, eight of the athletes were former Bills, and 14 were Sabres." I'm searching my memory and coming up empty. Who's the one guy in the study who played for both the Bills and the Sabres??? ? Expand Maybe it has something to do with Carlton/Justin Bailey!
Turbosrrgood Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 On 8/9/2018 at 4:08 AM, bbb said: UB study of ex-Bills, Sabres finds CTE 'much more rare than we thought' https://buffalonews.com/2018/08/07/ub-researchers-no-signs-of-early-onset-dementia-in-21-former-bills-and-sabres/ “In time, people will begin to realize it’s an important issue, CTE exists, but it’s much more rare than we thought,” Willer said. Expand Shh, people don't like it when you suggest that they shouldn't be outraged about something 2
ToGoGo Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 On 8/9/2018 at 12:40 PM, Freddie's Dead said: "Relatively small sample". It's a ridiculously small sample given the target audience. Since CTE can only be diagnosed with a brain autopsy, I'm not sure what the UB researchers are up to. You can't diagnose CTE in an interview. Expand How much would a "large" or "good enough" sample be?
The Tomcat Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 Im a bit of conspirsist .... If the NFL needs a scapegoat wouldn't it be convenient to blame these brain anomalies as simple head banging instead as a side effect to all the stuff they inject to the athletes so they can play on Sunday and worry about the consequences later? Just thinking out loud....
Mr. WEO Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 On 8/9/2018 at 6:39 PM, The Tomcat said: Im a bit of conspirsist .... If the NFL needs a scapegoat wouldn't it be convenient to blame these brain anomalies as simple head banging instead as a side effect to all the stuff they inject to the athletes so they can play on Sunday and worry about the consequences later? Just thinking out loud.... Expand If that was true, every person being treated for chronic pain would have CTE...
Freddie's Dead Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 On 8/9/2018 at 6:32 PM, musichunch said: How much would a "large" or "good enough" sample be? Expand 500 to 1000, and certainly not all athletes who played in Buffalo. Not only is the sample statistically insignificant, it's skewed to the point of mathematical uselessness. 1
The Tomcat Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 On 8/9/2018 at 6:44 PM, Mr. WEO said: If that was true, every person being treated for chronic pain would have CTE... Expand We aren't getting the same things they are.
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