Jason LaCanfora and Peter King reports from Bills camp

[CodeMonkey]

On 8/1/2018 at 9:01 AM, Doc said:

 

Pittsford Farm Dairy?  Hicks & McCarthy's (which sadly and surprisingly is now closed)?

Probably so for the ice cream, it is pretty damn good there. And right next to JoJos and the pittsford pub.  
I had no idea Hicks & McCarthy's was closed.

[reddogblitz]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

You're very defensive. Yeah, I obviously got that phrase confused. 

 

What I meant to say is that if there is a verdict on any of them, it's AJ. 

 

I do agree with the other poster that neither QB seems very good. There is a small chance we'll be surprised, but all hope seems to rest on Allen's shoulders.

 

Honestly, when I watched AJ's Bengals games, I saw another Peterman. He didn't have a meltdown, but he didn't look any better than Peterman's best. 

 

That has shown up in camp, as well. AJ is the most consistent, but it's not at a level that's putting him above the other two guys. Peterman's only in his second year and it sounds like he can be better than AJ is, if he becomes more consistent. Allen obviously has the most potential and is producing highlight-reel plays that the other two simply can't.

 

So, the jury is out for all three guys, but the least so with AJ. He's already just consistently mediocre.

 

It's cool

 

Personally, I don't put any credence in what sport writers sitting in the stands tweet or report about the QBs in practice.  When the pre season games start we may be able to tell a little more.  But really, we won't know anything until they play in the regular season.

 

I think AJ could be really good.  Maybe not.  A week from tonight we'll have a little better idea.

 

I just don't see how you can tell that AJ is doesn't seem very good at this point.  I find it puzzling, but to each his own I guess.

 

I'm also curious why you think the bolded.

 

Personally, I think the jury is still out on all 3.

 

 

 

 

[LeGOATski]

42 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

It's cool

 

Personally, I don't put any credence in what sport writers sitting in the stands tweet or report about the QBs in practice.  When the pre season games start we may be able to tell a little more.  But really, we won't know anything until they play in the regular season.

 

I think AJ could be really good.  Maybe not.  A week from tonight we'll have a little better idea.

 

I just don't see how you can tell that AJ is doesn't seem very good at this point.  I find it puzzling, but to each his own I guess.

 

I'm also curious why you think the bolded.

 

Personally, I think the jury is still out on all 3.

 

 

 

 

Because AJ is consistent right now. I don't see where the potential is. He doesn't have a huge arm and he's not mobile. He's been in the league for a few years learning already.

 

Very much like when Tyrod came to the Bills. He had sat behind Flacco, learned everything he could, came to Buffalo, was consistent and professional. There was not much room for improvement and we never saw it, obviously.

 

AJ is the same way to me. He is what he is now. The difference in the way the situation is playing out is that Tyrod flat out won that competition. Peterman and Allen still have room to grow and AJ is not much better than them, if at all.

[Figster]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Because AJ is consistent right now. I don't see where the potential is. He doesn't have a huge arm and he's not mobile. He's been in the league for a few years learning already.

 

Very much like when Tyrod came to the Bills. He had sat behind Flacco, learned everything he could, came to Buffalo, was consistent and professional. There was not much room for improvement and we never saw it, obviously.

 

AJ is the same way to me. He is what he is now. The difference in the way the situation is playing out is that Tyrod flat out won that competition. Peterman and Allen still have room to grow and AJ is not much better than them, if at all.

Not mobile, hmmmm

 

Are we watching the same guy?

[reddogblitz]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

Because AJ is consistent right now. I don't see where the potential is. He doesn't have a huge arm and he's not mobile. He's been in the league for a few years learning already.

 

Very much like when Tyrod came to the Bills. He had sat behind Flacco, learned everything he could, came to Buffalo, was consistent and professional. There was not much room for improvement and we never saw it, obviously.

 

AJ is the same way to me. He is what he is now. The difference in the way the situation is playing out is that Tyrod flat out won that competition. Peterman and Allen still have room to grow and AJ is not much better than them, if at all.

 

Thanks for the explanation.  I guess we'll see what happens. 

 

I just hope we have someone on the roster this year that can at least equal Hotrod's performance last year.  PLAYOFFS !!

 

Go BILLS !!

[Figster]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Thanks for the explanation.  I guess we'll see what happens. 

 

I just hope we have someone on the roster this year that can at least equal Hotrod's performance last year.  PLAYOFFS !!

 

Go BILLS !!

McCarron can equal Taylors game management skills in my humble opinion red.

[reddogblitz]

27 minutes ago, Figster said:

McCarron can equal Taylors game management skills in my humble opinion red.

 

I think he probably can too Fig. 

 

i actually think he can be good.

Edited August 2, 2018 by reddogblitz

[C.Biscuit97]

27 minutes ago, Figster said:

McCarron can equal Taylors game management skills in my humble opinion red.

Maybe but he really hasn’t shown anything.  That Bengals team was so loaded. Dalton was playing like a MVP and they had the best record in the nfl until he got hurt.  

 

I was not a Tyrod fan but AJ still has a lot to prove. He’s a good college qb who was ok for 5 games in the nfl.

41 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Because AJ is consistent right now. I don't see where the potential is. He doesn't have a huge arm and he's not mobile. He's been in the league for a few years learning already.

 

Very much like when Tyrod came to the Bills. He had sat behind Flacco, learned everything he could, came to Buffalo, was consistent and professional. There was not much room for improvement and we never saw it, obviously.

 

AJ is the same way to me. He is what he is now. The difference in the way the situation is playing out is that Tyrod flat out won that competition. Peterman and Allen still have room to grow and AJ is not much better than them, if at all.

There is where I point out that EJ Manuel had like a 156 qb rating that preseason!

[Doc]

2 hours ago, CodeMonkey said:

Probably so for the ice cream, it is pretty damn good there. And right next to JoJos and the pittsford pub.  
I had no idea Hicks & McCarthy's was closed.

 

Neither did I until three weekends ago.   And it was still close last weekend. What is odd is that after all those years there was no sign/notice to the public or anything. 

[Figster]

54 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I think he probably can too Fig. 

 

i actually think he can be good.

as do I red

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

It's cool

 

Personally, I don't put any credence in what sport writers sitting in the stands tweet or report about the QBs in practice.  When the pre season games start we may be able to tell a little more.  But really, we won't know anything until they play in the regular season.

 

I think AJ could be really good.  Maybe not.  A week from tonight we'll have a little better idea.

 

I just don't see how you can tell that AJ is doesn't seem very good at this point.  I find it puzzling, but to each his own I guess.

I'm also curious why you think the bolded.

Personally, I think the jury is still out on all 3.

 

I'm not that La chevre guy.  I can give you my take, whatever it's worth.  Agree about uncertainties of all training camp reports by media, educated fans etc. - not because what's seen isn't accurately reported, but because when Allen is making a toss to the middle of the field with no receiver within miles, we don't know whether 1) he made a mistake on the play call, so what he thinks he called and what the receivers heard don't align 2) he called the right play but the receiver ran the wrong route 3) he called the right play, but he and the receiver saw the coverage differently and selected different options 4) he's so inaccurate sometimes he couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat

 

Then there's the fact that until the red jerseys come off and the QBs are facing unfamiliar defenders who can slam them into the concrete and fall on top of them like a pallet of cinderblocks, it's hard to know who's got what.

 

I disagree with @LeGOATski take " when I watched AJ's Bengals games, I saw another Peterman." 

 

I think they're different guys:

1) AJM, coming from 'bama, had "Don't Throw the Game Away" firmly whacked into his DNA.  He was raised in the land of "score some points then trust your D".  In common with many young QB, he struggles with his reads, and when he's not sure, his instinct is to hang on to the football.  That means he'll miss open guys sometimes and leave plays on the field.   If you think of him as Tyrod Taylor minus the legs and with greater ability to make progressions and function as a pocket passer, that would be about right.  All that said, just when the DBs are all "we got this!" and ready to snooze, the Gamer in AJ will snap into gear and DB like "who is this guy and where was he for 2 1/2 quarters?"

2) Peterman, coming from Pitt, had "One Man Band" tamped into him.  It was "Peterman can, or No One Will".  He's said to be very sharp in the QB room, which translates sometimes into being too confident in his reads.  When he thinks he sees a shot, his instinct is to SLING IT! and not second guess what he sees.  He hasn't adjusted yet to the ball-hawking skills and speed of NFL safeties, which means he'll throw the ball into college-open windows.  He has that "Hero Ball" gene and will sling it regardless of DL in his face where the better move might be to pull it down and hang on tight, or throw it OOB.

 

The questions about them are opposite questions:

1) will AJM become more confident in his reads and progressions with more experience and start taking more shots?

2) will Peterman learn to discern between shots he should take, and shots he should not, and learn to throw it away or swallow it?

 

 

 

 

 

[Ol Dirty B]

On 7/31/2018 at 5:07 PM, YoloinOhio said:

He was going on and on today about how much he loves Pittsford

 

Which I don't get. Do people go to Pittsford outside of training camp? The pub is overrated, the back 9 is a dump. The village is ok with the canal, but I'd take Fairport over Pittsford any day. And I'm not from either.

On 8/1/2018 at 8:30 AM, teef said:

i know i shouldn't feel this way, but i'm done with peterman.  

 

The LA game was enough. It's completely fair. Granted I'm biased, because I'm done with Peterman also. He's garbage, seems like a good guy, relatively bright, maybe he can be a good day trader or something.

 

 

[LeGOATski]

7 hours ago, Figster said:

Not mobile, hmmmm

 

Are we watching the same guy?

I think so. He's the least mobile of the three.

[Figster]

6 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I think so. He's the least mobile of the three.

I agree,

 

  McCarron shows good pocket awareness/ moves well , but isn't looking to run the ball.

[LeGOATski]

 

@Hapless Bills Fan I can definitely see the difference in mentalities and I think that kind of goes along with my point on their consistency. Maybe that's the point I was really trying to make and you just worded it a lot better. ?

 

If Peterman reels it in, I see a lot more potential there. At this level, would you say it's easier to reel it in or easier to let it loose? Changing to the speed of the NFL definitely won't boost anyone's confidence.

 

AJ reminded me of Peterman because of the skill set I saw. Pocket QB with some mobility, but even less so. Fairly accurate and just an adequate arm. He could make a nice back shoulder throw to AJ Green, but he could also get picked off easily on an out route.

[reddogblitz]

32 minutes ago, Figster said:

 

  McCarron shows good pocket awareness/ moves well , but isn't looking to run the ball.

 

Isn't that what we want? 

 

If he can do that and pass accurately and WRs actually catch them and we get the run game back up to 2014/2015/2016 level, we could win a lot of games.

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by reddogblitz

[Figster]

50 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Isn't that what we want? 

 

yup,

 

On a side note : A J had a 5 to 1 TD to INT ratio (77 TD, 15 INT) and a 162.5 combined QB rating in college.( 3 Championships )

 

Peterman TD to INT ratio 3 to 1,  Allen 2 to 1

Edited August 3, 2018 by Figster

[Hapless Bills Fan]

41 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

@Hapless Bills Fan

 

At this level, would you say it's easier to reel it in or easier to let it loose? Changing to the speed of the NFL definitely won't boost anyone's confidence.

 

That's a great question, and I think the answer (for an individual) depends upon why they are where they are.

 

For reeling it in, I can't help but think of Fitzy standing on the podium after the 2011 season and telling us how Frankly, he could control whether or not he threw 23 interceptions.  He had me believing he could dial it back, reel it in, whatever you call it.  And I guess you could say he did, because he threw the same number of TDs and 8 fewer interceptions next season, and he's never thrown 23 INTs in a season since, but it was far from enough - I don't know anyone who would say he "reeled it in" successfully.  Always with the high-risk throws, resulting in INTs right at the worst time in the game.  Pattern recognition, react, throw -WHUPS!  So I'm not sure it's so easy to "reel it in".

 

For letting it loose, I would say it depends upon why it's not let loose.  For young QB unused to reading an NFL D designed to disguise coverages and confuse, hesitation is natural and may improve with actual live-action experience.  So AJ could potentially speed up with a bit more actual game experience and a lot of that VR system if the Bills use it.  But obviously that's not universally possible because with 3 full seasons, TT hasn't managed it yet.  Maybe he's just missing that mental ability to process fast enough, which has to be fairly rare given how hard it is to find great NFL QB.

 

I suppose if you tell me "c'mon, c'mon you have to pick one or the other" I would say it's overall easier to let it loose, given more live game experience to allow things to become more automatic, whereas I think reeling it in requires changing a reaction that's bypassing the conscious brain, it's too fast.  But that's really just a WAG

[BigDingus]

This last excerpt from La Canfora's article is the most important & telling -

"Could be a long year in the standings for the Bills, but I like the direction they are headed in. Progress isn't always linear in this league and last year's roster wouldn't reach the playoffs again in most cases. This is about a long-term youth movement to have the pieces of a perennial contender in place when these youngsters reach their prime. The have cleared the deck of bad contracts and bloated cap numbers and will be poised to make aggressive additions in trades or free agency in the coming years. Given the Raiders' issues with Khalil Mack right now, cant help but think how he would look here, for instance, if he ever hit the market (Mack played his college ball at Buffalo). I know this much, they aren't afraid to be bold here, and they have a shared vision between coaching/front office, which can go a long way in this league."

Along with the rest of the article, I feel more comfortable with this coaching staff & FO than I have in a while. Though I didn't like the Allen pick, the fact they have their eyes on the future, and aren't trying to fool themselves into thinking we're closer than we are, makes me believe they can pace themselves & do this the right way.
 

[Fadingpain]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

yup,

 

On a side note : A J had a 5 to 1 TD to INT ratio (77 TD, 15 INT) and a 162.5 combined QB rating in college.( 3 Championships )

 

Peterman TD to INT ratio 3 to 1,  Allen 2 to 1

AJ is a middling talent by NFL standards and exists on this roster solely to pass time until Josh Allen is the man.

If/when Josh Allen proves he isn't the man, we'll be looking for another QB to be the man, and it won't be AJ.