ColoradoBills Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: You did notice how bad Bills were against the run ? I do not think the point is adapting to just one player Colorado. just a matter of flexibility by Coach. Could he have ? Wade Phillips is the King of tuning a defense . And sets the bar IMHO. If McDermott decided to run a andjusted form of his defenses and needed new payers to do that ? Thats fine. Just trying to suggest he made a conscious decision to rebuild Keep in mind Bills did not have Edmunds when they relieved Ragland of his duties, They had Brown. another thumper. whom they let go. before they had Edmunds. Yes the run defense was bad last year. I like everyone else hope that it is much improved. It's funny Wade got into the conversation. I think McDermott is the best coach the Bill's have had since Wade and I have to give him some room to do it "his way". This is speculation on my part but I see McDermott last year evaluating the entire D and adjusting to his way. This year he went and got players to fill in the gaps and hopefully to find his Defensive QB which could very well be Edmunds. If all works well next year he just has to start "tweaking" and "refining". This year I think he starts with the deep evaluating of the offense and his new OC and QB (who should see play later in the year). Next year the focus is to fill in the gaps on the offense and hopefully runs for division titles will follow. I admit he has a lot to prove and a lot to do on that side of the ball. I think McDermott is wise enough to have flexibility in player/scheme concepts but he is building his first team as HC and I assume he wanted to move forward with the 4-3. That decision spider webs throughout the lineup from front 7 to even the SS. All that being said, I think Reggie Ragland was "small potatoes" in his big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said: What does this mean? How do you "adapt" to Ragland in McD's scheme? You adapt the scheme genius Edited June 30, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Just now, PetermanThrew5Picks said: You adapt the scheme genius How? What does that entail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: How? What does that entail? I DON'T KNOW MAN I'M NOT A DC. you're obviously not one because you think it's laughable a DC coming to a new team can't "adapt with their [patented, non-adjustable] scheme" like it's a damn Lego set. Yet you admit golly gee Wade can do that he's just on another level. How about we expect better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: I DON'T KNOW MAN I'M NOT A DC. you're obviously not one because you think it's laughable a DC coming to a new team can't "adapt with their [patented, non-adjustable] scheme" like it's a damn Lego set. Yet you admit golly gee Wade can do that he's just on another level. How about we expect better. You can't even articulate what "adapt a scheme,'" even means, but think it's something you can "expect" a coach to just do? lol Edited June 30, 2018 by BringBackOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Put in Ragland on rushing downs for one so we don't get ran through. Have him on the rotation. Play him lol. He's a football player, we don't eliminate half the NFL players because we're running a "scheme". Scheme is a fluid dynamic, frankly arbitrary concept. 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: You can't even articulate what "adapt a scheme,'" even means, but think it's something you can "expect" a coach to just do? lol You're seriously asking a question "how do we fit this player in because of the Panthers scheme?" By that logic we need the entire Panthers players. Players and coaches wouldn't move around the league. It's a sport with football players that have the instinct to play any down. Yet you're admitting somehow Wade and Beli can. I'm not going to explain how it'll be perfect I'm just telling you this isn't unprecedented. You're acting like we're building a space rocket with specific components, not a sports team. "How will we ever run the West Coast offense without Walsh Montana and Rice you can't just pair SCHEME with any other players." Said no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Put in Ragland on rushing downs for one so we don't get ran through. Have him on the rotation. Play him lol. He's a football player, we don't eliminate half the NFL players because we're running a "scheme". Scheme is a fluid dynamic, frankly arbitrary concept. You're seriously asking a question "how do we fit this player in because of the Panthers scheme?" By that logic we need the entire Panthers players. Players and coaches wouldn't move around the league. It's a sport with football players that have the instinct to play any down. Yet you're admitting somehow Wade and Beli can. I'm not going to explain how it'll be perfect I'm just telling you this isn't unprecedented. You're acting like we're building a space rocket with specific components, not a sports team. "How will we ever run the West Coast offense without Walsh Montana and Rice you can't just pair SCHEME with any other players." Said no one. Ragland on rushing downs. Okay, so 1st down, maybe? Who do you take out? Humber, who flat out beat Ragland in camp? Brown, who already fills our "hole" at slow LB? Maybe you rotate him in with those guys? Sure, okay. So Ragland plays every 4th or 5th obvious rushing down? That's like what, 6 plays a game? At that point, what effect is that "adaptation" having? Your argument could be used for every crappy player in the NFL. "Peterman's a football player, work him in there, adapt the scheme to him!" We don't need Panthers players. We need 4-3 players. We hired McD because 3/4ths of our defense fits a 4-3 scheme for Christsakes and you want him to NOT run a 4-3 so Reggie Ragland can see a snap a game? Did Andy Reid adapt his scheme for Ragland or acquire a player that fit his scheme? I rest my case. Edited June 30, 2018 by BringBackOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Your argument could be used for every crappy player in the NFL. "Peterman's a football player, work him in there, adapt the scheme to him!" My argument's not about a crappy player. 7 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: We don't need Panthers players. We need 4-3 players. We hired McD because 3/4ths of our defense fits a 4-3 scheme for Christsakes and you want him to NOT run a 4-3 so Reggie Ragland can see a snap a game? Both schemes need LBs 8 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Did Andy Reid adapt his scheme for Ragland or acquire a player that fit his scheme? He acquired a player that fit his scheme. Again not my argument. He also didn't trade away Justin Houston because he didn't "fit his scheme". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: My argument's not about a crappy player. Both schemes need LBs He acquired a player that fit his scheme. Again not my argument. He also didn't trade away Justin Houston because he didn't "fit his scheme". Ragland IS a crappy player. HE COULD NOT PLAY ON THE BILLS. Tanner Vallejo was better than Ragland last year. That's why they traded him. He was 4th on the depth chart here. He would never play over players who had more to offer. It wasn't an "adapting the scheme," thing. He sucked. Edited June 30, 2018 by BringBackOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: My argument's not about a crappy player. Both schemes need LBs He acquired a player that fit his scheme. Again not my argument. He also didn't trade away Justin Houston because he didn't "fit his scheme". Exactly why does Justin Houston not "fit his scheme" 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: Ragland IS a crappy player. HE COULD NOT PLAY ON THE BILLS. Tanner Vallejo was better than Ragland last year. That's why they traded him. He was 4th on the depth chart here. He would never play over players who had more to offer. It wasn't an "adapting the scheme," thing. He sucked. Im not going to agree that Ragland was a crappy player.....just that he only fits in certain defensive schemes.....the guy will light you up all day and has great instincts..... But its bad news when Preston Brown who cant get side line to side line is a better fit because he is actually more athletic.....and given what Buffalo wants to do trading Ragland while he still had some trade value left was not necessarily a bad idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Exactly why does Justin Houston not "fit his scheme" He was drafted as a 3-4 pass rushing OLB and would likely be a marginally better player in that SCHEME. But he's such a good football player he's still one of the best pass rushers regardless. His scouting notes: "Houston is a bit undersized as a traditional 4-3 defensive end but fits the mold of a 3-4 outside linebacker." 9 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Ragland IS a crappy player. I disagree. But that's fine. He's certainly no Justin Houston. Look it's been fun sparring with you guys but if you don't get what I'm trying to get across and are just going to scoff at the notion of a player playing a scheme he wasn't drafted for then it's just condescending. You could just acknowledge my point and disagree. Otherwise just not really worth arguing about for Ragland and a season that's long gone anyway. I'm talking about the philosophy I want to see in building a team. Not Ragland. He's just an example. So is Justin Houston. 18 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Exactly why does Justin Houston not "fit his scheme" Im not going to agree that Ragland was a crappy player.....just that he only fits in certain defensive schemes.....the guy will light you up all day and has great instincts.... Actually I'm going to hit the treadmill, the inspiration for my long-winded thoughtless ramblings.. let's keep this up boys. Let's just not be jerks lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: He was drafted as a 3-4 pass rushing OLB and would likely be a marginally better player in that SCHEME. But he's such a good football player he's still one of the best pass rushers regardless. His scouting notes: "Houston is a bit undersized as a traditional 4-3 defensive end but fits the mold of a 3-4 outside linebacker." I disagree. But that's fine. He's certainly no Justin Houston. Look it's been fun sparring with you guys but if you don't get what I'm trying to get across and are just going to scoff at the notion of a player playing a scheme he wasn't drafted for then it's just condescending. You could just acknowledge my point and disagree. Otherwise just not really worth arguing about for Ragland and a season that's long gone anyway. I'm talking about the philosophy I want to see in building a team. Not Ragland. He's just an example. So is Justin Houston. Actually I'm going to hit the treadmill, the inspiration for my long-winded thoughtless ramblings.. let's keep this up boys. Let's just not be jerks lol. Ragland is a really bad example. When we chase off a good player, I'll agree with you. A rotational third string LB isn't someone I'm losing sleep over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 3 hours ago, BringBackOrton said: 35 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Ragland is a really bad example. When we chase off a good player, I'll agree with you. A rotational third string LB isn't someone I'm losing sleep over. Alright we're getting somewhere. You agree that no good regime change would trade 3rd round year 3 Justin Houston because of scheme right? Yet that happens ALL the time. SCHEME is not this all powerful force that prevents good coaches and players from coaching something that works. Talent that good talent should play for any SCHEME. So it's not a laughable notion. Neither of us can sit down draw some plays on the chalkboard to get Houston 20 sacks in a season despite being in the wrong SCHEME. So I can't explain to you how Ragland could have worked out last year. I can point to how other players were adapted to scheme change successfully. I don't think he sucks at all. He's a bad example because he's our ONLY example. I'm just saying it worries me if FO has such a set in stone mindset that affects their decision making especially when they don't exactly have a wealth of LBs (2017). And I just realized Houston plays in a 34 halfway through typing this. Too tired to rewrite an example. Holy hell it's impossible to find historical schemes **** it. It's not that important cause no one else apparently cares. It's all about the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Holy hell it's impossible to find historical schemes **** it. It's not that important cause no one else apparently cares. It's all about the players. Hughes. There's a guy. Colts couldn't figure it out, we've ran him through coaching, scheme, player changing hell. He's just a good player playing a sport he is good at and doesn't have a problem slightly changing positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) 49 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Alright we're getting somewhere. You agree that no good regime change would trade 3rd round year 3 Justin Houston because of scheme right? Yet that happens ALL the time. SCHEME is not this all powerful force that prevents good coaches and players from coaching something that works. Talent that good talent should play for any SCHEME. So it's not a laughable notion. Neither of us can sit down draw some plays on the chalkboard to get Houston 20 sacks in a season despite being in the wrong SCHEME. So I can't explain to you how Ragland could have worked out last year. I can point to how other players were adapted to scheme change successfully. I don't think he sucks at all. He's a bad example because he's our ONLY example. I'm just saying it worries me if FO has such a set in stone mindset that affects their decision making especially when they don't exactly have a wealth of LBs (2017). And I just realized Houston plays in a 34 halfway through typing this. Too tired to rewrite an example. Holy hell it's impossible to find historical schemes **** it. It's not that important cause no one else apparently cares. It's all about the players. Justin Houston? What? When did he get traded? Ragland is not good. He'll be mediocre to average in a tailor made scheme for him. We can't tailor to that scheme, because then the rest of our guys would be mediocre too. Edited June 30, 2018 by BringBackOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said: Justin Houston? What? When did he get traded? lol forget about that point, I thought Houston was drafted to a 4-3 defense and Andy Reid changed it to a 3-4 in his 3rd year, point being he was wise not to overhaul his front 7. But I'm pretty sure Romeo Crennel ran a 3-4 when they drafted Houston. I can't speak to Vallejo beating out Ragland meaning he's going to be a better asset than Ragland. Any defensive coordinator should use their best assets to put out the best scheme. Wade Phillips dictates his scheme according to his best players. Ragland was likely getting back into football shape, shaking off the rust, he made contributions in the latter part of the year in KC. Why not keep him around instead of having 4 friggin tightends. Neither of us know really what he'll become. But having a good player should be exciting for a coordinator not "crap I have to tailor my defense around this guy cause I have a SCHEME" Scheme's a very broad definition for a defense. 4-3 or 3-4 I really don't care, the better football players can play both. So Shaq Lawson should stay lol to get back to the thread, who else are we playing at DE? Unless Rex/Whaley just had an absolute abysmal draft, one of those guys oughta pan out. Cheap rookie contracts are nice to have, especially 1st round graders. Edited June 30, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalostu2 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 On 6/22/2018 at 5:41 PM, buffalostu2 said: I think it is 50/50 he makes it. 50% he makes the team. 50% he gets traded. 0% he gets cut. He makes it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I'm curious, has anyone ever actually seen a roster bubble? The rosters I look at are always flat. Is it a lamination issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Sal predicting this morning that Shaq will get the Reggie Ragland treatment ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 He is toast. Trade him for a 4th and be done with it. I wish we could dig up the draft day thread, when the pick happened I predicted it was the end of Doug Whaley, I got roasted... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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