dave mcbride Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Yep. It's not some grand conspiracy. He would up missing six games. Sound the alarm! He missed six games plus all of preseason and camp. The result was that he was bad in his first season (no sugar-coating that), and the Bills lost 20-25 percent of their investment (depending on whether they pick up his fifth year option, which I think is highly unlikely at this point) right off the top. I think they knew he was hurt, but assumed it wouldn't be a problem. They were laughably wrong given how quickly they announced that he was gonna have to have surgery. A bum shoulder is not a good problem for a DE either. I do agree that with you that they didn't lie; they just completely effed up in their judgment. Edited June 21, 2018 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 31 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Maybe Bulaga if he proves to be healthy during TC? Buluga very well could be a cap casualty. I just don't know if Shaq fits their D. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: He missed six games plus all of preseason and camp. The result was that he was bad in his first season (no sugar-coating that), and the Bills lost 20-25 percent of their investment (depending on whether they pick up his fifth year option, which I think is highly unlikely at this point) right off the top. I think they knew he was hurt, but assumed it wouldn't be a problem. They were laughably wrong given how quickly they announced that he was gonna have to have surgery. A bum shoulder is not a good problem for a DE either. I do agree that with you that they didn't lie; they just completely effed up in their judgment. Given that other teams were known to be passing on him for this very reason, I just don't see why Whaley would believe this kid did not need surgery sooner rather than later. Look, if he was re-injured during a football play or contact drill or something like in training camp or preseason, other than in some pre-OTA thing, I would say, yeah...they figured he would be OK, but he failed a legit test of the shoulder and now he needs that operation. That's obviously not the sequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 38 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Something that had not happened during a full season of football, but did happen during some pre-OTA exercises? Ummm....if they always knew about and had planned for the surgery, he wouldn't be out running hard in OTAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Ummm....if they always knew about and had planned for the surgery, he wouldn't be out running hard in OTAs. They needed to pretend he was going to play before the surgery could be performed. Edited June 21, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 30 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: He missed six games plus all of preseason and camp. The result was that he was bad in his first season (no sugar-coating that), and the Bills lost 20-25 percent of their investment (depending on whether they pick up his fifth year option, which I think is highly unlikely at this point) right off the top. I think they knew he was hurt, but assumed it wouldn't be a problem. They were laughably wrong given how quickly they announced that he was gonna have to have surgery. A bum shoulder is not a good problem for a DE either. I do agree that with you that they didn't lie; they just completely effed up in their judgment. Yep. They obviously knew about the injury. They talked about it and he did, too. They effed up the judgment as you said. I assume there was a decent chance that he could have played through the entire season, like he did his senior season at Clemson with the injury. But in retrospect, it was a mistake because he messed it up beforehand. 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: They needed to pretend he was going to play before the surgery could be preformed. Yep. I remember hearing that a few players wondered to each other why he was playing with his arm in a sling, but when he said it was nothing, they just ignored it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Yep. I remember hearing that a few players wondered to each other why he was playing with his arm in a sling, but when he said it was nothing, they just ignored it. He was calling it his "lame duck" pass rush move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, eball said: He was calling it his "lame duck" pass rush move. Yep. Rex was telling him to lower his right shoulder when he tried to get under the RT and he would say, "What shoulder?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said: Ummm....if they always knew about and had planned for the surgery, he wouldn't be out running hard in OTAs. It wasn't OTAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: It wasn't OTAs. Minicamp is the same thing and you know it. Pretty weak defense, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 4 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Yep. It's not some grand conspiracy. He would up missing six games. Sound the alarm! But he was going to start right off the bus. I recall that comment IMO they expected him to start and play the season. IMO that was silly considering what was seemingly known by other head Coaches. Not a fan of Adolphus Washington either. Both heavy Rex influenced picks IMO. What about Ragland ? I am sure Whaley was doing his Coaches bidding went it came to draft weekend. We can only hope both Adolphus and more so Lawson, Shaq , show up big in training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Just now, 3rdand12 said: But he was going to start right off the bus. I recall that comment IMO they expected him to start and play the season. IMO that was silly considering what was seemingly known by other head Coaches. Not a fan of Adolphus Washington either. Both heavy Rex influenced picks IMO. What about Ragland ? I am sure Whaley was doing his Coaches bidding went it came to draft weekend. We can only hope both Adolphus and more so Lawson, Shaq , show up big in training camp. That was indeed the plan until injury to both Shaq and Ragland derailed it. Ancient history at this point. On to 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: That was indeed the plan until injury to both Shaq and Ragland derailed it. Ancient history at this point. On to 2018. agreed 26. like i have mentioned more than once. Tis the season of hope, if ya cant hope for a "successful " season right now ? I feel for folks who are already frustrated and thats not kool aid talkin. although i do keep a stash at the ready ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 32 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Minicamp is the same thing and you know it. Pretty weak defense, my friend. It wasn't minicamp either. Keep swinging.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: It wasn't minicamp either. Keep swinging.... Yes, it was, it's called "Rookie Minicamp." Minicamp right in the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Just now, Kelly the Dog said: Yes, it was, it's called "Rookie Minicamp." Minicamp right in the title. It bears no resemblance to OTAs. Look, 6 days after announcing Shaq was "a day one starter", the Bills were announcing he would be having that surgery after all. Apparently, "the occurrence" that was more injurious than a season of Div 1 football was "a swim move" around a tackling dummy. How silly does this story have to sound to get you to admit the obvious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 On 6/20/2018 at 10:48 AM, HappyDays said: When's the last time we had a GM who came right out and said this player isn't performing as well as we expect and he needs to do better? It's so refreshing. Word. Beane's the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: It bears no resemblance to OTAs. Look, 6 days after announcing Shaq was "a day one starter", the Bills were announcing he would be having that surgery after all. Apparently, "the occurrence" that was more injurious than a season of Div 1 football was "a swim move" around a tackling dummy. How silly does this story have to sound to get you to admit the obvious? If. They. Knew. His. Shoulder. Needed. Surgery. They. Would. Not. Have. Had. Him. Doing. Swim. Moves. In. Minicamp. Maybe you think a swim move is like the back stroke in a pool but it's not. It bears no resemblance to OTAs? You mean except for being an organized team activity in shorts and helmets and jerseys running drills and running generic plays from the playbook at half speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Old Regime + High Salary = Gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said: If. They. Knew. His. Shoulder. Needed. Surgery. They. Would. Not. Have. Had. Him. Doing. Swim. Moves. In. Minicamp. Maybe you think a swim move is like the back stroke in a pool but it's not. It bears no resemblance to OTAs? You mean except for being an organized team activity in shorts and helmets and jerseys running drills and running generic plays from the playbook at half speed? Hmmm, is it just like starting in 15 college football games at Clemson and recording 59 tackles, 25 for a loss, and 12.5 sacks? With a well known "swim move" that draftwire called "his trump card"? Yeah, anyway....either Whaley was the dumbest of the GMs who were looking at possibly drafting Shaq in the 1st round---BECAUSE he was then only one who DIDN'T realize he would need this surgery before the season started.... ....or he knew it and used that knowing his man would fall to Buffalo in the first. Which is a ballsy move the I give him credit for--taking his pick no matter what. I'm just calling BS on the subsequent "oh darn it, Shaq will need surgery before, not after the season. You see, I'm giving Whaley some credit here. You, on the other hand, are assuming he was just too dumb to figure out what at least other teams reportedly concluded about Shaq's shoulder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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