Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, GG said: By extension it's America's back yard. If you ignore it, don't be surprised about the vermin that will take root there. US would get a far bigger bang for the buck by improving the conditions in Central America than trying to build the wall I'm all for assisting them in keeping their people there. But at the same time, I don't think we should be importing more people into the country with no measurable skills that will add little to nothing to the economy or tax rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, GG said: By extension it's America's back yard. If you ignore it, don't be surprised about the vermin that will take root there. US would get a far bigger bang for the buck by improving the conditions in Central America than trying to build the wall Bingo. We could start by supporting a fight against communists in El Salvador. The left would support that I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 44 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Why? Why are they special? Partly because it's our fault their area is so screwed up. Guatelama had a democracy before we swooped in and saved the United Fruit Company from having to deal with workers that had rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, joesixpack said: I'm all for assisting them in keeping their people there. But at the same time, I don't think we should be importing more people into the country with no measurable skills that will add little to nothing to the economy or tax rolls. Massively ignorant & incorrect 8 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: Bingo. We could start by supporting a fight against communists in El Salvador. The left would support that I'm sure. You mean Nicaragua? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 The bottom line will be what voters decide in Nov and again in 2020. I accept the will of the voters . Trump was legally elected I have no problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, GG said: You mean Nicaragua? Heck anywhere. Lefties love helping other nations develop capitalist systems that actually work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 9 hours ago, HappyDays said: I'm changing my tactic in this thread. I'll take you all at your word that you are genuinely concerned about child trafficking victims. That we can't know for sure which adults are lying about the children they're traveling with. Luckily there's an easy solution: https://dnacenter.com/blog/long-take-get-dna-paternity-test-results/ Paternity test results take 1-2 days and they cost a maximum of $500. Let's say we ran it on 20,000 adult men. That would cost at most a total of $10 million, or 0.00025% of the US federal budget in 2017. We all agree that separating parents from their children is wrong. We all agree that even if the parents are wrong for illegally crossing the border, the children don't deserve to be punished with forced separation from the only family they know. So who here would support a policy that ended zero-tolerance family separation and replaced it with state funded paternity tests? Sounds like a reasonable solution, but we still must get over the Schumer Factor. Schumer is fighting any law that would make keeping families together. He wants the President to break the present law instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 3 hours ago, ALF said: I agree with this 100%. If a minor is brought across the border by a non family member , US authorities take custody of that child and try to unite with relatives in this country or Mexico. If the child is from Central America try for a safe foster family in this country, with monitor by CPS till 18. Child smugglers go to prison then deport. Real asylum seekers from Central America as a family unit need to be kept together. Treat these victims with dignity, they will pay this country back 100 fold. Just do the right thing. You see, once all thebullshit is thrown out we basically agree. It is the law that if a person/family wants asylum they must present themselves at a point of entry and claim asylum. The processing centers are inundated with people and don't turn away asylum seekers but tell them they have to wait their turn. These people are not separated unless it is determined that they aren't a family. People/families who try to cross the border illegally will end up getting separated though. This is basically protective custody for the children until a relative or sponsor can be found for them. Also, the "cage" pictures we are seeing are from several years ago or from the processing centers where they stay for just a short time. The dems are distorting what is going on purely for political purposes and are proving that they don't really give a damn about the children except for how they can help them politically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, GG said: Massively ignorant & incorrect What portion of the illegals coming to the US from central america have 4-year degrees, advanced skills or some other form of marketable skill that will add to the economy? I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think a lot of physicists, doctors, or computer programmers are hoofing it on foot or the roofs of trains to get here. because THOSE central americans are staying put. It's the poor, the uneducated and the unskilled that are coming here to seek work as maids, farm laborers, construction laborers, etc. As an example: just down the street from me there's a house holding at least a dozen central american men. They're not here to program in Python. They're here to pick blueberries. Edited June 20, 2018 by joesixpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 10 hours ago, HappyDays said: I'm changing my tactic in this thread. I'll take you all at your word that you are genuinely concerned about child trafficking victims. That we can't know for sure which adults are lying about the children they're traveling with. Luckily there's an easy solution: https://dnacenter.com/blog/long-take-get-dna-paternity-test-results/ Paternity test results take 1-2 days and they cost a maximum of $500. Let's say we ran it on 20,000 adult men. That would cost at most a total of $10 million, or 0.00025% of the US federal budget in 2017. We all agree that separating parents from their children is wrong. We all agree that even if the parents are wrong for illegally crossing the border, the children don't deserve to be punished with forced separation from the only family they know. So who here would support a policy that ended zero-tolerance family separation and replaced it with state funded paternity tests? Violation of due process. It would have to be court-ordered, which means detention until the hearing, which means separating families... Despite what that !@#$ Schumer would have us believe, it's not an easy problem to solve. 2 minutes ago, joesixpack said: What portion of the illegals coming to the US from central america have 4-year degrees, advanced skills or some other form of marketable skill that will add to the economy? I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think a lot of physicists, doctors, or computer programmers are hoofing it on foot or the roofs of trains to get here. because THOSE central americans are staying put. It's the poor, the uneducated and the unskilled that are coming here to seek work as maids, farm laborers, construction laborers, etc. What portion of 4-year degrees impart "measurable skills?" Moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, DC Tom said: What portion of 4-year degrees impart "measurable skills?" Moron. As compared to the education level of the average migrant? Quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said: If only their governments weren't corrupt and had properly implemented communism everything would be awesome. Jail or deport gang members? What if the swallow their membership cards when they are in line for their interviews? How will we know? Ask this fellow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, joesixpack said: What portion of the illegals coming to the US from central america have 4-year degrees, advanced skills or some other form of marketable skill that will add to the economy? I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think a lot of physicists, doctors, or computer programmers are hoofing it on foot or the roofs of trains to get here. because THOSE central americans are staying put. It's the poor, the uneducated and the unskilled that are coming here to seek work as maids, farm laborers, construction laborers, etc. As an example: just down the street from me there's a house holding at least a dozen central american men. They're not here to program in Python. They're here to pick blueberries. And where do you think there's a labor shortage? As Tom asks, what the hell does a 4-year degree have to do with marketable skills? IF anything, there's an overabundance of 4-yr college grads with zero marketable skills for the work that needs to be done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 9 hours ago, HappyDays said: So you mean to tell me this policy is not actually about stopping child sex trafficking, but that it is about punishment/deterrence? I guess you will have to take that up with others in this thread who explained to me that that has nothing to do with it. Apparently Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump are fighting child sex trafficking. Someone should tell them my idea. So you meant to tell us all that there can only be one purpose behind any policy, to the exclusion of all others? This, by the way, is how you idiots get more Trump. Your idea is stupid, by the way, and doesn't address the minor problem of what to do with the children while their parents are incarcerated pending extradition... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, GG said: And where do you think there's a labor shortage? As Tom asks, what the hell does a 4-year degree have to do with marketable skills? IF anything, there's an overabundance of 4-yr college grads with zero marketable skills for the work that needs to be done. How is it then that other advanced industrial countries like, say, New Zealand and Australia manage without letting hordes of unskilled laborers into their country unchecked? Edited June 20, 2018 by joesixpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, joesixpack said: What portion of the illegals coming to the US from central america have 4-year degrees, advanced skills or some other form of marketable skill that will add to the economy? I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think a lot of physicists, doctors, or computer programmers are hoofing it on foot or the roofs of trains to get here. People other than college pukes contribute to the economy you know. The whole thing blows: Press: "Oh these poor oppressed people." BS. If these same people were clinging to their bibles and guns or could not be exploited to expand programs the press would hate them. Schumer and company: Never have and never will give crap one about these individuals. The only benefit is to make their opponents look bad. Chamber of commerce: Yay free labor for us. Who cares about costs to others filtered through the government? Countries of origin: WTF Smugglers: Nice work taking people's entire wealth to sneak them in and then go back and get another batch. Who cares if they die along the way or get turned back as long as we get paid. Gangs and other criminals coming in: Watering down the story of people who may legitimately have list all hope and headed for the border. Muddy the waters in hopes that weak minded US politicians will throw up their hands and let everyone in. Phonies abound and the people truly in need have no true voice at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 9 hours ago, HappyDays said: No they are not choosing separation. Many tried to present themselves at legal ports of entry but were turned away. If it were me and my child I wouldn't think twice about trying to cross over illegally at that point. There is a perfectly legal procedure for seeking political asylum at these legal ports of entry, but what should they do when they arrive to find that procedure blocked? I suppose they should just suck it up and go home, but if you're a parent you know that is not really an option for them. Also since this policy is new the first families affected by it literally would not have known about it, and therefore couldn't be held responsible for choosing their punishment. The law posted above refers to persons who are criminally prosecuted for crossing the border illegally. Past administrations would not prosecute every single person that crossed illegally, certainly not those with a "credible fear" of their country of origin (asylum seekers). The Trump administration, driven by Jeff Sessions, has changed that policy and now prosecutes every single person that illegally crosses the border regardless of their situation. There is no law which says they have to do that. They intentionally created a zero tolerance policy and are trying to hide behind a law that wouldn't apply if the zero tolerance policy wasn't in effect. If any parent here endangered the welfare of our child/children the way these illegal immigrants are, we would lose custody of our kids forever. Why should we be treated differently than the illegal immigrants? If the kid is with someone other than their parents, it is simply irresponsible of us to NOT take them into our care, knowing the human trafficking problem at the border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, joesixpack said: As compared to the education level of the average migrant? Quite a bit. Most immigrants I know (quite a few) have very marketable trade skills and no degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: Chamber of commerce: Yay free labor for us. Who cares about costs to others filtered through the government? And this right here is the root of the problem. This is why the penalties for hiring illegals need to be draconian, to the point of potentially bankrupting such businesses. It just can't be tolerated. Just now, DC Tom said: Most immigrants I know (quite a few) have very marketable trade skills and no degree. How many migrant farm laborers do you know? Maids? Construction laborers? Edited June 20, 2018 by joesixpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, joesixpack said: How is it then that other advanced industrial countries like, say, New Zealand and Australia manage without letting hordes of unskilled laborers into their country unchecked? I'll take, "Because those countries adapt their immigration laws in line with economic needs?" for $100. US immigration laws haven't changed in nearly 3 decades despite the huge need for low skill labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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