Gibson guitars files for chapter 11 bankruptcy

[BuffaloBill]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/legendary-u-guitar-maker-gibson-files-bankruptcy-151014923--sector.html

 

Gibson files for chapter 11.  They will likely emerge with a little less debt.  Still a blow to an iconic brand.

[Gugny]

[K-9]

Sad

[Gugny]

Those self-tuners were the beginning of the end.

 

I get that companies need to expand and be more versatile.

 

But sometimes I think it's smart to know what you're awesome at and just keep being awesome at that.

[Best Player Available]

Givson has been losing market share for years. Loved their old slogan

"If it's not a Gibson it's not a guitar".  many thought the BS was over when they 

escaped the evil clutches and ownership of Gibson among other instrument makers

called Norlin Music.

 

Those morons also owned Moog Music in Buffalo. And over

several years destroyed and then shut down Moog. At the time watching what they did

too Moog which was a synth company. Norlin in their wisdom tried to make them also a guitar amp

company along with guitar effects. Resources were stretched thin. Any engineer with a brain

left shortly after this began. Bob Moog actually resigned the day Moog was sold and forced to sign

a two year "consulting" contract. Bob moved to Asheville instead. At that particular point Moog didn't even

own his own  name.sad!

That was it for Moog Music. 

 

Gibson can go two ways. Make everything offshore and they may have too since the USA has a total

ban on Rosewood. Gibson had been getting  Rosewood through the back door. For years. Or imo shut down all the cheap

crap guitars they make. And stick with the expensive Custom shop guitars. Where the margins are good.

And  make instruments that musicans can actually play. And, go back to their roots as one of the

premier American instrument builders. 500 million of debt doesn't bode well getting out of Chapter 11.

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, Best Player Available said:

Givson has been losing market share for years. Loved their old slogan

"If it's not a Gibson it's not a guitar".  many thought the BS was over when they 

escaped the evil clutches and ownership of Gibson among other instrument makers

called Norlin Music.

 

Those morons also owned Moog Music in Buffalo. And over

several years destroyed and then shut down Moog. At the time watching what they did

too Moog which was a synth company. Norlin in their wisdom tried to make them also a guitar amp

company along with guitar effects. Resources were stretched thin. Any engineer with a brain

left shortly after this began. Bob Moog actually resigned the day Moog was sold and forced to sign

a two year "consulting" contract. Bob moved to Asheville instead. At that particular point Moog didn't even

own his own  name.sad!

That was it for Moog Music. 

 

Gibson can go two ways. Make everything offshore and they may have too since the USA has a total

ban on Rosewood. Gibson had been getting  Rosewood through the back door. For years. Or imo shut down all the cheap

crap guitars they make. And stick with the expensive Custom shop guitars. Where the margins are good.

And  make instruments that musicans can actually play. And, go back to their roots as one of the

premier American instrument builders. 500 million of debt doesn't bode well getting out of Chapter 11.

 

The whole world has a near-total ban on rosewood - even bubinga.  Chinese demand for "hungmu" furniture, which requires rosewood, has driven several species to near-extinction.  The US contribution to this was the heavy-handed interpretation of the Lacey Act, which amounted to "a fretboard blank is illegally imported if it doesn't have the frets inserted in India."

 

As shocked as I am that Gibson went into Ch. 11, I'm more shocked that a company that sold around 200k units last year had a half-billion dollars in debt.  Great financial controls there...that's a company that deserves to be in bankruptcy.

 

And hopefullly I can get the SG I've always wanted at a discount, now.  

[row_33]

22 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

The whole world has a near-total ban on rosewood - even bubinga.  Chinese demand for "hungmu" furniture, which requires rosewood, has driven several species to near-extinction.  The US contribution to this was the heavy-handed interpretation of the Lacey Act, which amounted to "a fretboard blank is illegally imported if it doesn't have the frets inserted in India."

 

As shocked as I am that Gibson went into Ch. 11, I'm more shocked that a company that sold around 200k units last year had a half-billion dollars in debt.  Great financial controls there...that's a company that deserves to be in bankruptcy.

 

And hopefullly I can get the SG I've always wanted at a discount, now.  

 

It's not your revenue, it's what you spent to get there.  Well, sometimes it's the revenue...

 

Gibson was the good luck charm for rock and roll living, Fender's often meant a death at a young age.

 

 

[Best Player Available]

26 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

The whole world has a near-total ban on rosewood - even bubinga.  Chinese demand for "hungmu" furniture, which requires rosewood, has driven several species to near-extinction.  The US contribution to this was the heavy-handed interpretation of the Lacey Act, which amounted to "a fretboard blank is illegally imported if it doesn't have the frets inserted in India."

 

As shocked as I am that Gibson went into Ch. 11, I'm more shocked that a company that sold around 200k units last year had a half-billion dollars in debt.  Great financial controls there...that's a company that deserves to be in bankruptcy.

 

And hopefullly I can get the SG I've always wanted at a discount, now.  

Yea actually the Rosewood from India was and is considered an inferior product ( talking tone here)  than the Brazilian

Rosewood used for decades until that became endangered. Of course fretboards probably was on

the low end of Rosewood consumption. Funny thing is it can be found in the US if you look hard enough.

I believe it was Gibson that the feds raided a few years back looking. IIRC. they even came in with machineguns

to bust those bad guys making fretboards. lol. They found nothing illegal. 

[DC Tom]

17 minutes ago, Best Player Available said:

Yea actually the Rosewood from India was and is considered an inferior product ( talking tone here)  than the Brazilian

Rosewood used for decades until that became endangered. Of course fretboards probably was on

the low end of Rosewood consumption. Funny thing is it can be found in the US if you look hard enough.

I believe it was Gibson that the feds raided a few years back looking. IIRC. they even came in with machineguns

to bust those bad guys making fretboards. lol. They found nothing illegal. 

 

I have a board of old-growth Indian Rosewood in my shop, it's great wood (it's a piece of molding from a broken antique).  But there's no old-growth left...and the new growth is much lighter with a coarser grain.

 

And despite what a lot of reports say (including the text of the ban itself), musical instruments is a minor use of rosewoods.  It's the middle-class Chinese demand that drove the CITES ban, to try to tamp down on illegal rosewood logging.  And it's an extensive ban, to the point where your George Harrison Rosewood Telecaster will be confiscated by TSA if you try to fly with it without the appropriate paperwork.

 

And while that may seem extreme...rosewood is under extreme pressure, and needs the protection.  Even bubinga - which is not a rare exotic, and which I'm a big fan of (did my living room with custom bubinga molding) - is under enough pressure by Chinese demand that I have to grudgingly admit the CITES protection is a necessary proactive move.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

It's ok, can always buy a Martin.

 

 

[TheElectricCompany]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

And hopefullly I can get the SG I've always wanted at a discount, now.  

I am keeping tabs on LP Black Beauty prices... 

I have a 65 Melody Maker SG. Compared to my  Strat, the tone sucks, but if you want to chomp on power chords and ACDC solos it's the best guitar in the world. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[row_33]

19 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

I am keeping tabs on LP Black Beauty prices... 

I have a 65 Melody Maker SG. Compared to my  Strat, the tone sucks, but if you want to chomp on power chords and ACDC solos it's the best guitar in the world. 

 

I'm sure Angus could make anything resembling a guitar work wonders.

 

 

[Lurker]

Age old story of biting off more than you can chew, using other people's money.   Hopefully, the BK will help focus them back on the core business...

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-20/gibson-beloved-guitar-maker-faces-crushing-560-million-debt

 

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

It's not your revenue, it's what you spent to get there.  Well, sometimes it's the revenue...

 

Gibson was the good luck charm for rock and roll living, Fender's often meant a death at a young age.

 

 

 

@DC Tom, you sure you don't want a Strat, instead?!?!?

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

@DC Tom, you sure you don't want a Strat, instead?!?!?

 

Never cared for them.  A Telecaster, maybe.  Not a Strat.

 

I once played a Gibson SG.  It was a near-religious experience.  I swear, I didn't play the guitar so much as the guitar played itself, and I just told it what to do.

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Never cared for them.  A Telecaster, maybe.  Not a Strat.

 

I once played a Gibson SG.  It was a near-religious experience.  I swear, I didn't play the guitar so much as the guitar played itself, and I just told it what to do.

 

My son is a lefty.  We have yet to stumble upon a lefty SG, but he's played a few Les Pauls.  He has a Strat and plays it beautifully (reminds me of Gilmour all the time), but he's more of a shredder at his young age and switches between his Ibanez, LTD and Schecter.  He does, however, have an Epiphone EB-O bass, which has the SG body style.  It was a righty that was converted to a lefty.  He doesn't play it much (it's kind of a piece of ****, really), so I might convert it back to righty and take it.

[Fadingpain]

I play the guitar.  I love the Les Paul for its historical value and it can produce a great tone in the right hands going through the right amp.

 

Having said that, it was a poor seller in its day, it's too heavy/awkward, and it has the weird scale length.

 

The Stratocaster and its many clones is more popular and nicer to play in my opinion, even if it has a bolt on neck instead of a set-neck.  Then you have the Telecaster guys, another popular guitar.  

 

I don't know, seems like Gibson never developed a more modern "classic" guitar that was highly in demand.  The SG was always a fringe thing too, as was the Explorer.  Some of their acoustic guitars are lovely, but most are going to spend $$$ on a Martin, not a Gibson. 

 

On top of that, Gibson has been poorly run for a long time and perception was that quality was poor relative to high price point.

 

All recipes for failure!

[row_33]

45 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

My son is a lefty.  We have yet to stumble upon a lefty SG, but he's played a few Les Pauls.  He has a Strat and plays it beautifully (reminds me of Gilmour all the time), but he's more of a shredder at his young age and switches between his Ibanez, LTD and Schecter.  He does, however, have an Epiphone EB-O bass, which has the SG body style.  It was a righty that was converted to a lefty.  He doesn't play it much (it's kind of a piece of ****, really), so I might convert it back to righty and take it.

 

play it upside down!

 

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

I play the guitar.  I love the Les Paul for its historical value and it can produce a great tone in the right hands going through the right amp.

 

Having said that, it was a poor seller in its day, it's too heavy/awkward, and it has the weird scale length.

 

The Stratocaster and its many clones is more popular and nicer to play in my opinion, even if it has a bolt on neck instead of a set-neck.  Then you have the Telecaster guys, another popular guitar.  

 

I don't know, seems like Gibson never developed a more modern "classic" guitar that was highly in demand.  The SG was always a fringe thing too, as was the Explorer.  Some of their acoustic guitars are lovely, but most are going to spend $$$ on a Martin, not a Gibson. 

 

On top of that, Gibson has been poorly run for a long time and perception was that quality was poor relative to high price point.

 

All recipes for failure!

 

But Fender really only has two "main" models, too (strat/tele).  As of last year, Fender was $100 million in debt.

 

Most guitars are either "strat style," or "les paul style," regardless of brand.  And I'd be interested to see how Martin is doing.  I know/see a lot of people ponying up for Taylors.

 

I also know guys who are choosing to go to luthiers and spending around the same as they would buying a mass-produced high-end Martin or Taylor.

 

I think other manufacturers are just making better guitars than Fender and Gibson.  To get high end strats or Les Pauls costs a lot of money and I don't think a lot of musicians think it's worth it.

 

My son's Schecter and LTD (ESP) each go about $1,000.  They're both neck-through; both have active EMGs (different pickups, though); and the LTD has a Floyd Rose Special; the Schecter has a fixed bridge, but has locking tuners, which are pretty cool.  There is no plastic on either guitar.  He beats the piss out of the Floyd Rose (not in a bad way; just lots of divebombs and pulling up) and the LTD never goes out of tune.  Same with the Schecter.  Rock solid.  Neither guitar is a one-trick pony, either.  He's able to get warm tones out of them and play clean.  That's a lot of bang for around the same buck one would spend on an American-made Fender or Gibson.

 

I love Strats and I think they're the most beautiful sounding guitars on earth.  But there's just a lot of competition out there and I think they spent too much money with too many different levels of guitars, from the Affinity Squiers (garbage) to the high end Strats that go in the 5-figure range.  Same with Gibson/Ephipone.  There are very nice, well-made Squiers and Epiphones out there.  Maybe they should just focus on putting out the good stuff.  Who knows?

[Lagoon Blues]

Hard lesson in Stick To What You Do Well.

 

[row_33]

how could they have guessed Les Paul product would become the Strad of the guitar in the late 60s?

 

they had a great run....

 

 

[bdutton]

Epiphone makes great guitars at a fraction of the cost of a Gibson.  I own a few and I love my Epi LP Ultra.

[Best Player Available]

44 minutes ago, row_33 said:

how could they have guessed Les Paul product would become the Strad of the guitar in the late 60s?

 

they had a great run....

 

 

The Les Paul was crap by the late sixties.save for the reissue of a 52 deluxe in 1968 at the request of Clapton oless.. 1959 was the year and 1960 too a degree.

Price a 1959 sunburst les paul standard. If it's under six figures. Then it's got major issues

11 minutes ago, bdutton said:

Epiphone makes great guitars at a fraction of the cost of a Gibson.  I own a few and I love my Epi LP Ultra.

 Epiphone is part of Gibson started way back when for people that thought Gibsons were too pricey. Great marketing then. They made some kick ass guitars in particular the Rivera, the Casino., and the Rivioli Bass . In the early days of epiphone they were made in the same factory as Gibsons.

[CowgirlsFan]

So bummed for Gugny ?