4-30: Brandon Beane on WGR - Allen Begins as the Number 3 QB

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, NewEraBills said:

 

It wasn't Rosen or they would have taken him.  I don't think Mayfield was in their plan either.  To me, Darnold was the only other top guy they were going to take.

 

FWIW Benjamin Albright said the Bills and Cardinals had Allen as their #1 QB. He's been pretty accurate throughout the whole draft process and was one of the first reporters to link us to Allen so I believe him. No way to know for sure of course.

[Dr. K]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

He will pass Peterman on the depth chart between the time he cocks his arm to throw his first pass in rookie mini camp and it gets within a yard of its target. 

Peterman is better than you think he is. 

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Dr. K said:

Peterman is better than you think he is. 

No, he's not. Peterman has numerous qualities about him that are NFL quality, which is why people like him. He also has at least two qualities about him that kill all other NFL qualities, he doesn't have the arm to get the ball where it needs to go quick enough more than 15 yards down the field (and sometimes less than 15 yards) and he cannot handle pressure well. He's awful at it. You cannot play in the NFL with those two traits. He didn't show those traits in preseason last year, even when people thought he was good. Those traits cannot be exposed in practice. 

[mannc]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

FWIW Benjamin Albright said the Bills and Cardinals had Allen as their #1 QB. He's been pretty accurate throughout the whole draft process and was one of the first reporters to link us to Allen so I believe him. No way to know for sure of course.

Makes sense.  It does not appear that Beane made much of an effort to get below pick 5.  So the “we MUST trade our whole draft and next year’s 1 to get the Giants’ pick” could not have been more wrong.

Edited April 30, 2018 by mannc

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Scorp83 said:

After listening to Brandon Beane this morning... I'm proud to say I was right! Allen wasn't they guy...he was one of their guy's. Me & Jeremy White was pretty much on the same page. I've posted PLENTY of times that I believe it was Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen then Allen (which I had wrong cause he clearly had Allen over Rosen).  But when I said did they get their guy....this forum blew up! & said I was wrong for saying that. 

 

When you've been apart of this game as long as I have... you can read things that the normal fan doesn't even know what to look for. Thank you Beane for making my point!

 

& he also confirm what I said, The Giants, Browns, Broncos & Colts were not trading cause they're guys was on the board!

 

John Murphy has been saying for months that the Bills had two guys in mind: Darnold and Allen.

 

Regardless, as a GM that is just how the draft works. You rank your guys. You go through contingencies. You try to plan for everything. Was Allen #1 on their board? He better not be if they took him at 7. But they probably knew they couldn't realistically get Darnold, or other non-QB's like Barkley, Chubb, etc.

 

And if someone gotten Allen ahead of them, I bet they trade up and take Rosen (exactly like what Arizona did).

5 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

No, he's not. Peterman has numerous qualities about him that are NFL quality, which is why people like him. He also has at least two qualities about him that kill all other NFL qualities, he doesn't have the arm to get the ball where it needs to go quick enough more than 15 yards down the field (and sometimes less than 15 yards) and he cannot handle pressure well. He's awful at it. You cannot play in the NFL with those two traits. He didn't show those traits in preseason last year, even when people thought he was good. Those traits cannot be exposed in practice. 

 

Every QB can learn how to deal with pressure. That is an experience thing.

 

Arm strength isn't, though. Fitz carved out a nice little career for himself without NFL arm strength, though, albiet as mostly a backup. But you can win some gear without tremendous arm strength if you call the right plays and mask those difficiencies.

[BringBackFergy]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

 

John Murphy has been saying for months that the Bills had two guys in mind: Darnold and Allen.

 

Regardless, as a GM that is just how the draft works. You rank your guys. You go through contingencies. You try to plan for everything. Was Allen #1 on their board? He better not be if they took him at 7. But they probably knew they couldn't realistically get Darnold, or other non-QB's like Barkley, Chubb, etc.

 

And if someone gotten Allen ahead of them, I bet they trade up and take Rosen (exactly like what Arizona did).

You make some good points, but I'll defer to Scorp83's opinion for two reasons:

 

1) His spelling and grammar are on fleek, and

 

2) He's been around the game longer than you.

[Dr. K]

9 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

No, he's not. Peterman has numerous qualities about him that are NFL quality, which is why people like him. He also has at least two qualities about him that kill all other NFL qualities, he doesn't have the arm to get the ball where it needs to go quick enough more than 15 yards down the field (and sometimes less than 15 yards) and he cannot handle pressure well. He's awful at it. You cannot play in the NFL with those two traits. He didn't show those traits in preseason last year, even when people thought he was good. Those traits cannot be exposed in practice. 

I respect your opinion but we may never find out. If things go as they should he will never see the field this season. 

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, Dr. K said:

I respect your opinion but we may never find out. If things go as they should he will never see the field this season. 

 

I think we've already found out.

[Dr. K]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

I think we've already found out.

Of course you do.

[Kelly the Dog]

8 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

John Murphy has been saying for months that the Bills had two guys in mind: Darnold and Allen.

 

Regardless, as a GM that is just how the draft works. You rank your guys. You go through contingencies. You try to plan for everything. Was Allen #1 on their board? He better not be if they took him at 7. But they probably knew they couldn't realistically get Darnold, or other non-QB's like Barkley, Chubb, etc.

 

And if someone gotten Allen ahead of them, I bet they trade up and take Rosen (exactly like what Arizona did).

 

Every QB can learn how to deal with pressure. That is an experience thing.

 

Arm strength isn't, though. Fitz carved out a nice little career for himself without NFL arm strength, though, albiet as mostly a backup. But you can win some gear without tremendous arm strength if you call the right plays and mask those difficiencies.

Have there been players that dealt with pressure better as they got more experienced? Of course. Pretty much every one of them. But there are also a lot of players that cannot deal with it and never will. It looks very much like Peterman is one of those guys.

 

Trent Edwards was one of those guys. Peterman is Trent Edwards without the arm strength and Trent had decent at best arm strength. Edwards never handled pressure well. Some Bills fans will claim he could before he got his bell wrung in AZ but that is not true. He couldn't even when he was playing fairly well.

 

Chan Gailey, who knows a thing or two about offense, showed this with an extraordinary decision. His first year as HC he had Edwards as the starter. Edwards looked very good in practice and in preseason, which again cannot simulate game speed or pass rush. And thought to himself I may have something here. He started 2-3 games and it became immediately apparent that Trent could not handle the pass rush. And Chan didn't bench him, he CUT him! That rarely happens. But Chan knew he would never be good because he never could be good, and Edwards slowly faded away and out of the league.

 

Peterman is the same. Only not as good as Edwards. Bills fans got enamored with Edwards because he could read defenses pre-snap, make a quick decision on where he was going to go, and throw a very nice looking 8 yard out pattern. But that was the only thing he was very good at. Which is what fans got enamored with Peterman over, and what he does very well, and the only thing he does very well.

[Kelly the Dog]

20 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

I respect your opinion but we may never find out. If things go as they should he will never see the field this season. 

Fair enough. I respect yours as well. I think Peterman is cut and put on the practice squad, unless something named Zapoticky beats him out for the PS.

[Coach Tuesday]

10 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Have there been players that dealt with pressure better as they got more experienced? Of course. Pretty much every one of them. But there are also a lot of players that cannot deal with it and never will. It looks very much like Peterman is one of those guys.

 

Trent Edwards was one of those guys. Peterman is Trent Edwards without the arm strength and Trent had decent at best arm strength. Edwards never handled pressure well. Some Bills fans will claim he could before he got his bell wrung in AZ but that is not true. He couldn't even when he was playing fairly well.

 

Chan Gailey, who knows a thing or two about offense, showed this with an extraordinary decision. His first year as HC he had Edwards as the starter. Edwards looked very good in practice and in preseason, which again cannot simulate game speed or pass rush. And thought to himself I may have something here. He started 2-3 games and it became immediately apparent that Trent could not handle the pass rush. And Chan didn't bench him, he CUT him! That rarely happens. But Chan knew he would never be good because he never could be good, and Edwards slowly faded away and out of the league.

 

Peterman is the same. Only not as good as Edwards. Bills fans got enamored with Edwards because he could read defenses pre-snap, make a quick decision on where he was going to go, and throw a very nice looking 8 yard out pattern. But that was the only thing he was very good at. Which is what fans got enamored with Peterman over, and what he does very well, and the only thing he does very well.

 

IIRC Chan cut Edwards when he ran out of bounds on 4th down (last play of the game) instead of taking a shot downfield.

[MJS]

12 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Have there been players that dealt with pressure better as they got more experienced? Of course. Pretty much every one of them. But there are also a lot of players that cannot deal with it and never will. It looks very much like Peterman is one of those guys.

 

Trent Edwards was one of those guys. Peterman is Trent Edwards without the arm strength and Trent had decent at best arm strength. Edwards never handled pressure well. Some Bills fans will claim he could before he got his bell wrung in AZ but that is not true. He couldn't even when he was playing fairly well.

 

Chan Gailey, who knows a thing or two about offense, showed this with an extraordinary decision. His first year as HC he had Edwards as the starter. Edwards looked very good in practice and in preseason, which again cannot simulate game speed or pass rush. And thought to himself I may have something here. He started 2-3 games and it became immediately apparent that Trent could not handle the pass rush. And Chan didn't bench him, he CUT him! That rarely happens. But Chan knew he would never be good because he never could be good, and Edwards slowly faded away and out of the league.

 

Peterman is the same. Only not as good as Edwards. Bills fans got enamored with Edwards because he could read defenses pre-snap, make a quick decision on where he was going to go, and throw a very nice looking 8 yard out pattern. But that was the only thing he was very good at. Which is what fans got enamored with Peterman over, and what he does very well, and the only thing he does very well.

 

Sorry, but I'm not able to make those conclusions based on less than two full games of play. Clearly you are, but I like to have a much larger sample size than just a few quarters of play, some of them during a blizzard.

 

But if he flames out of the league, who cares? He was a lower round pick for a reason and those guys rarely turn out. They are projects and sometimes the projects fail.

[Kelly the Dog]

11 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

IIRC Chan cut Edwards when he ran out of bounds on 4th down (last play of the game) instead of taking a shot downfield.

That could have been the last straw. But Edwards could not handle the rush at all in those games and that is why he was cut. Chan didn't see that in preseason and practice. You wouldn't cut a guy for one play.

9 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

Sorry, but I'm not able to make those conclusions based on less than two full games of play. Clearly you are, but I like to have a much larger sample size than just a few quarters of play, some of them during a blizzard.

 

But if he flames out of the league, who cares? He was a lower round pick for a reason and those guys rarely turn out. They are projects and sometimes the projects fail.

Exactly. he was a 5th round pick because he had a rag arm and shouldn't be expected to be good. That wasn't my observations from just the two games, but watching him in college a little, watching tape after we took him, and watching him throughout preseason. He didn't even handle a preseason rush well.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Dr. K said:

Peterman is better than you think he is. 

 

He has to be better (though not much better) than I think for I think he is dog crap and is better utilized on PS throwing passes to DBs.

[4thandGoal]

4 hours ago, Scorp83 said:

After listening to Brandon Beane this morning... I'm proud to say I was right! Allen wasn't they guy...he was one of their guy's. Me & Jeremy White was pretty much on the same page. I've posted PLENTY of times that I believe it was Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen then Allen (which I had wrong cause he clearly had Allen over Rosen).  But when I said did they get their guy....this forum blew up! & said I was wrong for saying that. 

 

When you've been apart of this game as long as I have... you can read things that the normal fan doesn't even know what to look for. Thank you Beane for making my point!

 

& he also confirm what I said, The Giants, Browns, Broncos & Colts were not trading cause they're guys was on the board!

you are so good-- maybe you should become a GM..... ROsen wasnt there guy!!! and they werent going to mortgage the farm if it was Darnold and/or Mayfield.. But i am glad yo uare proud... maybe we can get you a goldstar

[BuffaloRush]

4 hours ago, Ifartalot said:

Beane is absolutely doing right with creating cap space. That was hamstringing this team back to Buddy Nix. 

 

The draft is a crap shoot, but Edmunds, Phillips and Teller were not reaches. 

 

 

 

Dont let St. Doug Whaley off the hook either.  He added to the mess and never made a serious attempt to clean it up

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Fair enough. I respect yours as well. I think Peterman is cut and put on the practice squad, unless something named Zapoticky beats him out for the PS.

 

You are forgetting that Peterman is a McDermott guy.  I don’t think there’s much of a Chance that he gets cut.  Though, if they name Allen the starter for Week 1 there’s a chance it might happen.  

[Kelly the Dog]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

Dont let St. Doug Whaley off the hook either.  He added to the mess and never made a serious attempt to clean it up

 

You are forgetting that Peterman is a McDermott guy.  I don’t think there’s much of a Chance that he gets cut.  Though, if they name Allen the starter for Week 1 there’s a chance it might happen.  

Not forgetting he is a McD guy. That is the only reason he is on an NFL roster. He is going to be cut because McD and Beane are firm believers in versatility and special teams. And like last year, they kept only two quarterbacks during the season, so they could keep more of the versatile guys and special teamers. And there is no reason to keep a developmental young guy whatsoever when your prized rookie is a young developmental guy and your starter is a young developmental guy. None. Barring injury. So he will be cut, no one will pick him up for their roster, and he will be put on the PS in case of injury. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Scorp83]

11 hours ago, NewEraBills said:

 

It wasn't Rosen or they would have taken him.  I don't think Mayfield was in their plan either.  To me, Darnold was the only other top guy they were going to take.

I didn't say they had Rosen over him, I said obviously they had Allen over Rosen. Then if you listen, Beane said 2 not 1 but 2 guy's they were keying on... that's Mayfield & Darnold 

9 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

So .... how long you been speaking English?

1 day

10 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

That seems right to me.  

Beane said there were 2 guy's not 1