Jerry Sullivan: Ralph Wilson Was A Cheapskate

[Nihilarian]

Believe it or not, there were other NFL owners that were/are far worse than Wilson.

 

Think Wilson was cheap? Cardinals owner Bill Bidwell used to sit in on each and every player's contract negotiations. He was also the team's de facto general manager. From 1960 thru 1987 the Cards only won the division 2x and made the playoffs 3x while losing in the first round each time. I feel bad for each player on those teams as they dwelt in such mediocrity for so many years.

 

Bidwell moved the team from St Louis to Phoenix, Arizona because of his ineptitude in building a winning team and fans stopped attending. Thank the lord for Cards fans that Bidwell left sons to inherit his team and they changed everything around. They did finally make it to an SB in 2008. 

 

 

Another bad owner in my view was Colts owner Robert Irsay. In 1972 Rams owner Carroll Rosenbloom traded the Colts to Robert Irsay. After the 72 season, the Colts traded star QB Johnny Unitas to the Chargers. The star QB after Unitas was QB Bert Jones and as the story goes Colts owner Robert Irsay gave Jones a new house in Baltimore as part of his signing deal and when the Colts released Jones they took back the house as it seems that Jones didn't read the fine print in his contract. Irsay did this same thing to other players like giving a car as a signing bonus to an RB and then repossessing it after the player was released.

 

The real part comes in when a young Stanford QB John Elway heard that his favorite NFL QB was kicked out of his own house by Robert Irsay... this made Elway furious. Some reports say that it was Colts head coach Frank Kush was the actual reason as to why Elway refused to sign with the Colts. It was the former and the Colts lost out on a HoF QB because the owner was such a dick. 

 

From 1978 to 1983 the Colts were one of the worst teams in NFL history and in one game against Buffalo the Colts offense did not cross the 50-yard line all game. The team was so bad they couldn't sell season tickets so the owner was forced to move the team. Let's also not forget that after the 1983 season the packing trucks moved the team out of Baltimore in the middle of the night in a move to Indianapolis.

 

 

Art Modell is probably the most hated NFL owner ever after moving the beloved Cleveland Browns to Baltimore to become the Baltimore Ravens. Because his team was losing money Modell was forced to move the team or sell it and later on he was forced to sell it anyway. ask any Browns fan what they think of Modell. 1996 to 1998 Cleveland didn't have an NFL team.

 

 

In my opening sentence, I said "are" because the Cowboys owner is also the teams GM and if not for his sons being involved in the team and talking him out of drafting Johnny Manziel among other stupid moves. Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson had a falling out after the super bowl years and Jones thinks he was the one that built those super bowl teams and hence the reason the owner is the GM. The Boys have been in the playoffs 9x times since their last super bowl win in 1995 and yet haven't won one of those playoff games. The owner thinks he is the smartest GM in the league. Dallas might not ever return to a super bowl until the owner steps away and hires a real NFL GM. JMO

 

[Imissbeastmode]

GMTD era would’ve been better if Ralph didn’t force him to draft Willis.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Believe it or not, there were other NFL owners that were/are far worse than Wilson.

 

Think Wilson was cheap? Cardinals owner Bill Bidwell used to sit in on each and every player's contract negotiations. He was also the team's de facto general manager. From 1960 thru 1987 the Cards only won the division 2x and made the playoffs 3x while losing in the first round each time. I feel bad for each player on those teams as they dwelt in such mediocrity for so many years.

 

Bidwell moved the team from St Louis to Phoenix, Arizona because of his ineptitude in building a winning team and fans stopped attending. Thank the lord for Cards fans that Bidwell left sons to inherit his team and they changed everything around. They did finally make it to an SB in 2008. 

 

 

Another bad owner in my view was Colts owner Robert Irsay. In 1972 Rams owner Carroll Rosenbloom traded the Colts to Robert Irsay. After the 72 season, the Colts traded star QB Johnny Unitas to the Chargers. The star QB after Unitas was QB Bert Jones and as the story goes Colts owner Robert Irsay gave Jones a new house in Baltimore as part of his signing deal and when the Colts released Jones they took back the house as it seems that Jones didn't read the fine print in his contract. Irsay did this same thing to other players like giving a car as a signing bonus to an RB and then repossessing it after the player was released.

 

The real part comes in when a young Stanford QB John Elway heard that his favorite NFL QB was kicked out of his own house by Robert Irsay... this made Elway furious. Some reports say that it was Colts head coach Frank Kush was the actual reason as to why Elway refused to sign with the Colts. It was the former and the Colts lost out on a HoF QB because the owner was such a dick. 

 

From 1978 to 1983 the Colts were one of the worst teams in NFL history and in one game against Buffalo the Colts offense did not cross the 50-yard line all game. The team was so bad they couldn't sell season tickets so the owner was forced to move the team. Let's also not forget that after the 1983 season the packing trucks moved the team out of Baltimore in the middle of the night in a move to Indianapolis.

 

 

Art Modell is probably the most hated NFL owner ever after moving the beloved Cleveland Browns to Baltimore to become the Baltimore Ravens. Because his team was losing money Modell was forced to move the team or sell it and later on he was forced to sell it anyway. ask any Browns fan what they think of Modell. 1996 to 1998 Cleveland didn't have an NFL team.

 

 

In my opening sentence, I said "are" because the Cowboys owner is also the teams GM and if not for his sons being involved in the team and talking him out of drafting Johnny Manziel among other stupid moves. Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson had a falling out after the super bowl years and Jones thinks he was the one that built those super bowl teams and hence the reason the owner is the GM. The Boys have been in the playoffs 9x times since their last super bowl win in 1995 and yet haven't won one of those playoff games. The owner thinks he is the smartest GM in the league. Dallas might not ever return to a super bowl until the owner steps away and hires a real NFL GM. JMO

 

 

 

At one time there were plenty of owners worse than Ralph.   Hell the Patriots owners were terrible for decades.  As bad as he was he was much closer to the middle than the back end in the 1970's and 1980's.

 

Ralph really suffered when all the terrible owners were replaced with self-made billionaires or children of former owners who were well trained and much better football people than their predecessors.

 

That's when Ralph really became a laughingstock.

 

In the mid-2000's he struggled to get anyone to even take his ****ty GM and HC jobs because of his awful rep.    "The place coaches go to die" as Chuck Knox once said.  There was a 5-6 year stretch post-Donahoe where it was the worst GM or HC job in the league BECAUSE of Ralph.

[stony]

9 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Believe it or not, there were other NFL owners that were/are far worse than Wilson.

 

Think Wilson was cheap? Cardinals owner Bill Bidwell used to sit in on each and every player's contract negotiations. He was also the team's de facto general manager. From 1960 thru 1987 the Cards only won the division 2x and made the playoffs 3x while losing in the first round each time. I feel bad for each player on those teams as they dwelt in such mediocrity for so many years.

 

Bidwell moved the team from St Louis to Phoenix, Arizona because of his ineptitude in building a winning team and fans stopped attending. Thank the lord for Cards fans that Bidwell left sons to inherit his team and they changed everything around. They did finally make it to an SB in 2008. 

 

 

Another bad owner in my view was Colts owner Robert Irsay. In 1972 Rams owner Carroll Rosenbloom traded the Colts to Robert Irsay. After the 72 season, the Colts traded star QB Johnny Unitas to the Chargers. The star QB after Unitas was QB Bert Jones and as the story goes Colts owner Robert Irsay gave Jones a new house in Baltimore as part of his signing deal and when the Colts released Jones they took back the house as it seems that Jones didn't read the fine print in his contract. Irsay did this same thing to other players like giving a car as a signing bonus to an RB and then repossessing it after the player was released.

 

The real part comes in when a young Stanford QB John Elway heard that his favorite NFL QB was kicked out of his own house by Robert Irsay... this made Elway furious. Some reports say that it was Colts head coach Frank Kush was the actual reason as to why Elway refused to sign with the Colts. It was the former and the Colts lost out on a HoF QB because the owner was such a dick. 

 

From 1978 to 1983 the Colts were one of the worst teams in NFL history and in one game against Buffalo the Colts offense did not cross the 50-yard line all game. The team was so bad they couldn't sell season tickets so the owner was forced to move the team. Let's also not forget that after the 1983 season the packing trucks moved the team out of Baltimore in the middle of the night in a move to Indianapolis.

 

 

Art Modell is probably the most hated NFL owner ever after moving the beloved Cleveland Browns to Baltimore to become the Baltimore Ravens. Because his team was losing money Modell was forced to move the team or sell it and later on he was forced to sell it anyway. ask any Browns fan what they think of Modell. 1996 to 1998 Cleveland didn't have an NFL team.

 

 

In my opening sentence, I said "are" because the Cowboys owner is also the teams GM and if not for his sons being involved in the team and talking him out of drafting Johnny Manziel among other stupid moves. Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson had a falling out after the super bowl years and Jones thinks he was the one that built those super bowl teams and hence the reason the owner is the GM. The Boys have been in the playoffs 9x times since their last super bowl win in 1995 and yet haven't won one of those playoff games. The owner thinks he is the smartest GM in the league. Dallas might not ever return to a super bowl until the owner steps away and hires a real NFL GM. JMO

 

Thx for these posts.  My memories of the Bills don't really kick in until SB Loss #1.  

 

Nice to hear some of the earlier history of Ralph's reign.   

[IDBillzFan]

Man, there is nothing more reassuring than a sports journalist making about $100K/year explaining to everyone what makes a billionaire a cheapskate.

[Lurker]

42 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

Man, there is nothing more reassuring than a sports journalist making about $100K/year explaining to everyone what makes a billionaire a cheapskate.

 

Man, if that's your litmus test the world would never have had history books, newspapers or TMZ...

[BuffaloRush]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

At one time there were plenty of owners worse than Ralph.   Hell the Patriots owners were terrible for decades.  As bad as he was he was much closer to the middle than the back end in the 1970's and 1980's.

 

Ralph really suffered when all the terrible owners were replaced with self-made billionaires or children of former owners who were well trained and much better football people than their predecessors.

 

That's when Ralph really became a laughingstock.

 

In the mid-2000's he struggled to get anyone to even take his ****ty GM and HC jobs because of his awful rep.    "The place coaches go to die" as Chuck Knox once said.  There was a 5-6 year stretch post-Donahoe where it was the worst GM or HC job in the league BECAUSE of Ralph.

 

This is spot on... Like many fans in their late 30’s I started watching right around the time the Bills really got back on track as a franchise (1988) and have been following them ever so. The period after Donahue was probably the darkest times I can remember and you can place all of that blame on Ralph. You can also blame Ralph for the very bad hires of Buddy Nix and ultimately Chan Gailey.  

 

That’s what makes Ralph such a polarizing figure as a Bills fan.  One one hand you admire his generosity to the area, but on the other hand he’s probably the one most responsible for the humiliating 17 year long drought.  That’s the main point of this thread

3 hours ago, LABillzFan said:

Man, there is nothing more reassuring than a sports journalist making about $100K/year explaining to everyone what makes a billionaire a cheapskate.

 

You don’t think he has a valid point though?  If you actually listened to the audio at the 35 minute mark, you’d see that Sully actually has a very good point.  He wasn’t taking a cheap shot (no pun intended), he just referenced how financial implications could have dictated some of the poor decisions for the Bills 

[Punching Bag]

I'd consider the source someone who has been scamming a paycheck for years if decades.

 

Jerry: if you pay me I'll write something nice

Ralph: I'd rather pay off the devil himself to take you early.

[4merper4mer]

12 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

Man, if that's your litmus test the world would never have had history books, newspapers or TMZ...

I sure hope that not too many history books are written with the professionalism, dignity and respect for the complete picture brought to work everyday by Sullivan.  Alas, there are probably many that were.

[HiddenInLight]

Sullivan couldn't write a truly insightful article if the best football writer in the world gave him a first draft to submit.  The guy is just terrible.  All of his articles are click bait filled nightmares that have no factual backing or even content worth reading.  All he does is slap up an attention grabbing title with pure garbage in the article himself.  I refuse to even give his articles a click.  He is the worst in the business and should have been fired years ago.  He is a major reason why buffalo sports media is in the terrible shape that it is in now.

[BuffaloRush]

I get that you might not line Sully.  He’s an opinionated columnist designed to write articles that get people talking.  Every city has writers like this.

 

How on earth though is Sully the major reason why Buffalo sports media is in terrible shape? And how can you justify that the Buffalo media is in terrible shape?

[HiddenInLight]

19 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

I get that you might not line Sully.  He’s an opinionated columnist designed to write articles that get people talking.  Every city has writers like this.

 

How on earth though is Sully the major reason why Buffalo sports media is in terrible shape? And how can you justify that the Buffalo media is in terrible shape?

 

What major buffalo media outlet has even a respectable lineup of contributors?  The Buffalo News is awful.  WGR still employs guys like Mike Schopp.  ESPN has a Patriots guy covering the bills who shows open dislike for the team.  Tell me how Buffalo has good sports media.  Sully was the first in a huge wave of click baiting morons with no substance to their contributions other then titles made to convince people to click on your article.  There are very few guys that work for the larger media outlets in the area that even do a halfway decent job.  The only people that do halfway decent sports writing are for much smaller media outlets, that are just holding a foothold because places like TBN, andWGR would rather get their clicks then actually get good content, while ESPN treats buffalo like an afterthought and the butt end of a joke that isn't worth bothering to cover.

[May Day 10]

I spent a lot of years griping about Wilson and his management.  I'm not in the mood to continue now that it is not relevant.

[BuffaloRush]

16 minutes ago, HiddenInLight said:

 

What major buffalo media outlet has even a respectable lineup of contributors?  The Buffalo News is awful.  WGR still employs guys like Mike Schopp.  ESPN has a Patriots guy covering the bills who shows open dislike for the team.  Tell me how Buffalo has good sports media.  Sully was the first in a huge wave of click baiting morons with no substance to their contributions other then titles made to convince people to click on your article.  There are very few guys that work for the larger media outlets in the area that even do a halfway decent job.  The only people that do halfway decent sports writing are for much smaller media outlets, that are just holding a foothold because places like TBN, andWGR would rather get their clicks then actually get good content, while ESPN treats buffalo like an afterthought and the butt end of a joke that isn't worth bothering to cover.

 

I don’t agree that they are terrible.  In fact, there are many respected members from a national level including Vic Carucci, Tim Graham and yes even Jerry Sullivan to a lesser extent.  Just because you don’t like the media personalities in Buffalo, doesn’t mean they aren’t good at their job.

[I'm Spartacus]

On 3/30/2018 at 11:39 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

All I know about you is you traditionally say one stupid thing after the next and are pretty much seen as a complete joke on this site.

 

Your post above is no exception.

 

When he bought the Bills Ralph was PLENTY wealthy compared to his peers in the AFL and the NFL..........in fact he had already been a part owner of the Detroit Lions and would have bought them had they been for sale.     Get your facts straight.   He wasn't Bon Jovi trying to get someone to buy the team for him he WAS NFL owner wealthy and went on to use his wealth to prop up both the Patriots and Raiders in the pre-merger AFL.

 

In short......he didn't have to leverage the team because he got in for peanuts.

 

RCW was mercurial, football stupid and EPICALLY selfish............and while those things caused a lot of suffering to everyday schmuck Bills fans and the people he hired to manage/coach his teams.........his increbile selfishness is what ultimately kept the team in Buffalo.

 

He desperately wanted to be remembered as something other than what he was............and once he reached a certain point he NEEDED Buffalo to be able to do that.

 

By contrast, a guy like Art Modell spent most of his time as an NFL owner trying to make all of the people around him like him............mostly by overpaying them or wrt Cleveland itself not really pushing the envelope with regard to a new stadium until it was far too late.     Eventually being too nice caught up to him...........he got in debt.........and had to hurt the people he needed the most, the fans of Cleveland.    It destroyed him and he died as a carpet bagger in Baltimore and a pariah in Cleveland.

 

Ralph was a selfish and dishonest/disingenuine prick of an owner............but the fact that he ran it like a business,  never revealing his hand about whether he would move the team.........created a perfect setup for his final act.   Yes, I am a huge Bills fan but I never spent ONE SECOND worrying about the team moving because I knew Ralph was far too self-centered to ruin his legacy by pulling a Modell and moving the team.

 

 

 

Wow. That was an amazing take on this. Well thought & well written.

[BuffaloRush]

11 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

I spent a lot of years griping about Wilson and his management.  I'm not in the mood to continue now that it is not relevant.

 

Because past history is so irrelevant, right?  I think you forgot that this is a message board

[#34fan]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

Because past history is so irrelevant, right?  I think you forgot that this is a message board

 

Anything else I can interest you in?  -A dead horse, perhaps?

[HiddenInLight]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

I don’t agree that they are terrible.  In fact, there are many respected members from a national level including Vic Carucci, Tim Graham and yes even Jerry Sullivan to a lesser extent.  Just because you don’t like the media personalities in Buffalo, doesn’t mean they aren’t good at their job.

 

If you consider his job to get as many people to click on his writing as possible, then yes he is very good.  If you consider it to be putting out meaningful factually accurate pieces that are well written and contain interesting information that is a step above what I would find on a fan site, he fails miserably.

[May Day 10]

28 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

Because past history is so irrelevant, right?  I think you forgot that this is a message board

 

I don't blame people for rehashing and discussing the past... its just I spent so much time doing it, I don't feel like really getting into it (trust me, I could get going).  

 

To me, the end result turned favorable, whether it was truly intended or not.  I'm happy with that and am trying to stay in more of a positive frame of mind about the franchise moving forward.  

On 3/30/2018 at 11:39 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

Yes, I am a huge Bills fan but I never spent ONE SECOND worrying about the team moving because I knew Ralph was far too self-centered to ruin his legacy by pulling a Modell and moving the team.

 

 

 

The team's stability in Buffalo in the later years had a lot to do with Wilson recognizing he was in advanced age.  Move the team, he would have to dip into his pocket, pay a relocation fee, probably finance a portion of the stadium, build a brand/fanbase, etc.... which would be a great long-term investment... but he recognized the Wilsons were OUT once he passed away.  It was much more financially sound remaining in Buffalo and collecting dependable shared revenue.

 

Selling the team wasn't an option because his family would be double-taxed, on both the sale, then the inheritance.

 

Basically running out the clock, being as financially prudent as possible was the mode of the Bills for a long time.  I don't really blame him.  It stunk as a fan though.

 

I would argue, he almost paved the way for a move to Toronto with the series and agreement with Ted Rogers.  Rogers passed away though and his holdings became kind of complicated and spread through the family who weren't on the same page.  I would bet the general intent was that Rogers would be the buyer upon Mr Wilson's passing (Pegula was nowhere on the radar yet), and the team/league would already be greased into Toronto a bit (Rogers expected much more hoopla and excitement with the games).  

[Murdox]

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

 

I don't blame people for rehashing and discussing the past... its just I spent so much time doing it, I don't feel like really getting into it (trust me, I could get going).  

 

To me, the end result turned favorable, whether it was truly intended or not.  I'm happy with that and am trying to stay in more of a positive frame of mind about the franchise moving forward.  

 

The team's stability in Buffalo in the later years had a lot to do with Wilson recognizing he was in advanced age.  Move the team, he would have to dip into his pocket, pay a relocation fee, probably finance a portion of the stadium, build a brand/fanbase, etc.... which would be a great long-term investment... but he recognized the Wilsons were OUT once he passed away.  It was much more financially sound remaining in Buffalo and collecting dependable shared revenue.

 

Selling the team wasn't an option because his family would be double-taxed, on both the sale, then the inheritance.

 

Basically running out the clock, being as financially prudent as possible was the mode of the Bills for a long time.  I don't really blame him.  It stunk as a fan though.

 

I would argue, he almost paved the way for a move to Toronto with the series and agreement with Ted Rogers.  Rogers passed away though and his holdings became kind of complicated and spread through the family who weren't on the same page.  I would bet the general intent was that Rogers would be the buyer upon Mr Wilson's passing (Pegula was nowhere on the radar yet), and the team/league would already be greased into Toronto a bit (Rogers expected much more hoopla and excitement with the games).  

 

I think I agree with much of what you are saying, but I think it overemphasizes a "treading water" aspect to the Wilson mentality.  Wilson was an old man.  I've worked with many old men in my life, and I can tell you one thing - I am CERTAIN Wilson felt that he could adopt the business plan you describe while STILL being competitive.   In many ways, the modern game - and CBA issues - passed him by, and certainly age influenced that. 

 

I think Wilson began relying too much on his front office.  I'm sure he asked Brandon can we competitive spending X and Brandon said sure and laid out a plan that Wilson was ill-equipped to really second guess.  Following the team's failures each year,  Wilson, at his age, likely was far too willing to accept the excuses from the front office, and was talked into assigning the majority of the blame to a variety of things like the QB issue and coaching.  He didn't have the energy to really do the work to revamp the front office completely.  This gradually even got worse as he got older.  Certainly, they were trying to make certain moves over the years - they drafted at least 3 QB busts and made a move for Bledsoe at the end of his career.  They hired advisers, and generally spent the cap money.  They just didn't have the right front office in place to be what the team needed in Wilson's later years.