BillsVet Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: And when has reaching ever worked? Whitner? McCargo? Maybin? Just as easy to reach at QB as it is at other positions. We were more than a QB away during the decade of darkness. I've said it repeatedly here: finding your QB is the fastest way to success. Besides, Whitner/McCargo/Maybin were drafted by people masquerading as GM's and inferior HC/front office personnel. They had no plan or a weak one for rebuilding and the results speak for themselves. From 2006-2016 OBD used the draft primarily to fill holes while essentially expecting the one QB they hoped would work actually did. When that option didn't, they looked for one other guy. The only time there's been anything close to an attempt to improve at QB was 2007 when Marv took Edwards. After that, OBD was scared to death of acquiring anyone who would challenge their anointed QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Timmy Chang and Colt Brennan disgree. I don't think he was elite. He was a good Big XII QB similar to Landry Jones or Bryce Petty. They weren't elite either, and were both 4th round picks. I agree that none of Rosen, Darnold or Allen were elite either. Not sure any of them are a slam dunk, and I think Allen is going to be a colossal bust. The thought of trading three firsts, a second, a third, etc. for either Rosen, Allen or Mayfield scares the crap out of me. Rosen and Allen because I just don't think they're good football players (and Rosen is injury-prone). And while Mayfield is a special talent he lacks self-control and imo will struggle in the transition from big man on campus to professional. . Rudolph won't get past the Patriots and Belichick will continue torturing us for decades even after Brady retires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bills Detective Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: The thought of trading three firsts, a second, a third, etc. for either Rosen, Allen or Mayfield scares the crap out of me. Rosen and Allen because I just don't think they're good football players (and Rosen is injury-prone). And while Mayfield is a special talent he lacks self-control and imo will struggle in the transition from big man on campus to professional. . Rudolph won't get past the Patriots and Belichick will continue torturing us for decades even after Brady retires. But, if WE take Jackson or Rudolph at 12, will WE be the ones now torturing Belichick and the Patriots for the next decade plus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: Maybe a good QB with a great team wins more than a great QB with no team? And that goes for any quarterback. Why is this factor so often ignored during this discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Likes The Bills Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 46 minutes ago, BillsVet said: I've said it repeatedly here: finding your QB is the fastest way to success. Besides, Whitner/McCargo/Maybin were drafted by people masquerading as GM's and inferior HC/front office personnel. They had no plan or a weak one for rebuilding and the results speak for themselves. From 2006-2016 OBD used the draft primarily to fill holes while essentially expecting the one QB they hoped would work actually did. When that option didn't, they looked for one other guy. The only time there's been anything close to an attempt to improve at QB was 2007 when Marv took Edwards. After that, OBD was scared to death of acquiring anyone who would challenge their anointed QB. So Ej wasn't drafted in 2013? Yes he busted but to act like they havent used ANY resources is just wrong. 28 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: But, if WE take Jackson or Rudolph at 12, will WE be the ones now torturing Belichick and the Patriots for the next decade plus? You're telling me Jackson wouldn't scare teams with his ability to press the line of scrimmage with designed qb runs & rpo(run, pass, option)? People are severely underestimating the impact Lamar will have on the ground game. Think about what Tyrod did now multiply that by 3 and that's what Jackson gives you as a runner. With the added bonus of him actually being a quarterback... IF he ends up in Miami (my biggest fear) then we will be the ones being tortured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: But, how many running QBs have led their teams to Super Bowl wins in the modern era? Frequently, when people say "running QBs", they mean that to mean ONLY a QB who can run, but can't throw - a la Tim Tebow or Vince Young. That's begging the question, because obviously a QB who can't throw is about as valuable as a WR who can't catch or a RB who can't run. But if a WR is a good run blocker, that's an asset. And if an RB is a good receiver, that's an asset. And if a QB is a good runner, that's an asset. Setting aside the question of whether Jackson will be a good NFL thrower (I have no idea, but I'll willing to take the chance), here's some Super Bowl-winning QBs: 2013 - Russell Wilson - 539 rushing yards that year, 1 TD 2010 - Aaron Rodgers - 356 rushing yards, 6 TDs Unless you count 1997 Elway (I don't), you then have to go all the way back to... 1994 - Steve Young - 293 rushing yards, 7 TDs If we expand the list from "win a Super Bowl" to "make a Super Bowl", we also include: 2015 - Cam Newton - 636 rushing yards, 10 TDs 2014 - Russell Wilson - 849 rushing yards, 6 TDs (and should've won if he hadn't passed on the last play!) 2012 - Colin Kaepernick - 415 rushing yards, 5 TDs in 13 games (7 starts) McNabb's rushing numbers were surprisingly low in 2004, so then we have to go back to... 1999 - Steve McNair - 337 rushing yards, 8 TDs in 11 games Either way, there aren't many, but there also aren't none. I think it just comes down to this: Good QBs are rare. Good QBs who are also good runners are even more rare. But I don't think the Bills should actively avoid a prospect just because he can run. If they think he can't throw, by all means, take him off the board. But it's hard enough to find a good QB without artificially limiting the pool. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 52 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: But, if WE take Jackson or Rudolph at 12, will WE be the ones now torturing Belichick and the Patriots for the next decade plus? Nope. I wouldn't trust our franchise to develop/"grow" a freaking Chia pet, let alone a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bills Detective Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 Just now, SouthNYfan said: Nope. I wouldn't trust our franchise to develop/"grow" a freaking Chia pet, let alone a QB. Then why not just become a full-time Eagles, Jets or Giants fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Just now, Buffalo Bills Detective said: Then why not just become a full-time Eagles, Jets or Giants fan? Excuse me? I didn't know I had to be "100% positive" about a franchise that hasn't had a QB worth a sh*t since Ronald Reagan was in office. You asked a question, to which I answered, and the answer has 3 decades of evidence to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bills Detective Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 Just now, SouthNYfan said: Excuse me? I didn't know I had to be "100% positive" about a franchise that hasn't had a QB worth a sh*t since Ronald Reagan was in office. You asked a question, to which I answered, and the answer has 3 decades of evidence to support it. Calm down, Bucky (or Jerry, whichever you are). It's not unreasonable to wonder why you even post on the message board of a team that you have no faith in, instead of becoming a fan of another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: And that goes for any quarterback. Why is this factor so often ignored during this discussion? Because people around here have "shiny and new" syndrome regarding QB's. I bet their wives (or girlfriends) make a point of not going down past "automobile dealer row" in their community if they can help it as what is on the lot is automatically better than what the family owns in their minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: Calm down, Bucky (or Jerry, whichever you are). It's not unreasonable to wonder why you even post on the message board of a team that you have no faith in, instead of becoming a fan of another team. Not Bucky or Jerry. I don't jump ship when things aren't going great. I'll not a frontrunner. I've been rooting for the Bills since I was in kindergarten, through thick and thin, and want them to win. I guess we should censor all dissenting and negatives opinions regarding the team, right? We should only allow positive and happy thoughts, right? Anybody unhappy with the team, and it's decisions, should just leave, right? You're a jackass**. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 hours ago, DFT said: The funny thing about this draft is how heavy it is with potential day one starters. There are something like 70 projected potential day one starters estimated in this draft. Not on my board there isn't. I decidedly do not think this is a great draft class. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFT Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: Not on my board there isn't. I decidedly do not think this is a great draft class. Interesting. I’m at the very opposite end of the spectrum. That’s what makes the draft special! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Just now, DFT said: Interesting. I’m at the very opposite end of the spectrum. That’s what makes the draft special! Fair enough. Where do you think the great players are? My personal view is that it is a really good linebacker class, a really good running back class and good interior DL and QB classes. After that - I think it is an average interior OL class; a below average DB class; a poor OT class; a bad class of pass rushers; and a woeful WR class. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I like Rudolph at 12 and wouldn't mind drafting him there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bills Detective Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 Just now, Call_Of_Ktulu said: I like Rudolph at 12 and wouldn't mind drafting him there. Thank God you aren't in charge of making personnel decisions for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFT Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Just now, GunnerBill said: Fair enough. Where do you think the great players are? My personal view is that it is a really good linebacker class, a really good running back class and good interior DL and QB classes. After that - I think it is an average interior OL class; a below average DB class; a poor OT class; a bad class of pass rushers; and a woeful WR class. I think you have it well-pegged outside of WR being woeful. I also think this is a very solid TE group. The DL group is just unreal; best I’ve seen in years. This is not the draft to draft one of these guys so high because the difference in them is so negligible. I’m high on this DB class, maybe more than most because of how many quality CB/S transitional players will be available. RB is similar to APs draft. 2-3 elite guys and 10-13 solid potential starters. I think this WR class is going to shock people. I really do!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said: The thought of trading three firsts, a second, a third, etc. for either Rosen, Allen or Mayfield scares the crap out of me. Rosen and Allen because I just don't think they're good football players (and Rosen is injury-prone). And while Mayfield is a special talent he lacks self-control and imo will struggle in the transition from big man on campus to professional. . Rudolph won't get past the Patriots and Belichick will continue torturing us for decades even after Brady retires. Landry and Petty both got past the Patriots numerous times so I don't see how you can draw that conclusion. Belichick likes guys who have elite accuracy in the short and intermediate passing game. That's what Brady is, and that's what Garoppolo offers. That's the most important thing they value in QBs because their offense is predicated around getting the ball out accurately and on time so that receivers can run after the catch. Rudolph is best at chucking the ball down the field, so I don't think there's a fit there at all. Rudolph would have made sense to Bruce Arians. No idea if there's anyone else left in the NFL who runs something similar. Edited March 21, 2018 by jrober38 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: Thank God you aren't in charge of making personnel decisions for this team. I know, we would only have Wilson, Cousins or Carr as a QB if I was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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