reddogblitz Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said: Not success Found the Bills with the longest playoff drought and left them as one of only 12 teams without a drought. SUCCESS!! Edited March 12, 2018 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: They must not follow the Bengals. I think everyone knows how we got into the playoffs. Success!!! Drought broken! And now onto finding our Franchise QB and getting a ring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, berg1029 said: I understand what you and a lot of other people are saying. But I think where we are having a difference of opinion is over who is due to credit for our present financial situation (and draft capital situation). The change of GM from Whaley to Bean is, imo, more deserving of credit than saving a couple bucks by having Tyrod as our QB. Yes, his contract was reasonable, so it did play in to it. But more of the reason why we're in a better financial spot is because we have a GM that isn't spend happy anymore. It has next to nothing to do with Tyrod. Our current financial situation is a result of Bean. The only thing that Tyrod presided over was mediocre football results. Everything is deserving of credit!! That’s the point. The Bills wore shirts around that read “playoff caliber.” That was their stated goal. We can discuss whether a team should have any goal other than Super Bow Champion but the Bills were more realistic. They set that goal and achieved it. In addition to achieving their goal they are in position to take the next step. To me you are either moving forward or moving backwards. The Tyrod era was moving forward. He was 23-20 in a Bills uniform. When I look at the scope of a regime I ask myself, “are they better now than when ____ got here?” I don’t think that anyone thinks that they were in a better place entering 2015 than they are entering 2018. Whether or not people want to withhold any credit to Tyrod for changing the dynamic and getting the team in the playoffs is up to them. I chose to think fondly on the past 3 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I don’t believe that you go from worst to first in sports. You build winners over time. The Bills are further along now than they were 3 years ago. You keep buying lottery tickets and I’ll but blue-chip stocks. Will see which investment strategy is smarter over the long-term. The Bills have a clear deck financially, a ton of assets and an opportunity to add a top end QB. That’s how you build a winner. If they just aimlessly threw darts each year they’d be behind where they are now. The plan takes time. The new front office has through their clean out process with a more strategic approach to managing this franchise put it in a good position to move forward. Was Taylor a factor for this change of direction? No, other than a concerted effort to move on from him. Taylor playing the first two years was understandable. He was a stop gap qb who we were fortunate to have. He being a starter beyond those first two years was not a sign of success but a sign of an organizational failure. When the argument on behalf of Taylor is that he is better than what we previously had (not saying you are making that argument) then that is a testament to the low bar this organization has created for itself. The reality is that this organization has taken an important step forward not because he is on the roster but because he is off the roster. I don't want to be harsh and label him a failure. But the reality is that as a qb he was inconsequential. That in itself is a negative judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Yes. Acquired him as an afterthought to EJ/Cassel. Took the starting role and finally at least made us remember what halfway decent QB play could look like. 2x Pro Bowl appearances are obviously skewed but that was still a welcome change to Fitz/EJ/Trent/JP etc.. Team was competitive with him and finally broke the drought and gave me a ton of great fun memories with him as QB. Always wished they stuck with the offense they had in 2015 player and scheme wise because I was curious on what he more he could've been with an offense more geared to him talent wise, but he was always more a place holder then "thee" guy. And in the end they got basically another 2nd round pick for him which was a huge gain that may be the final piece needed to get hopefully our new franchise QB. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 1 minute ago, JohnC said: The new front office has through their clean out process with a more strategic approach to managing this franchise put it in a good position to move forward. Was Taylor a factor for this change of direction? No, other than a concerted effort to move on from him. Taylor playing the first two years was understandable. He was a stop gap qb who we were fortunate to have. He being a starter beyond those first two years was not a sign of success but a sign of an organizational failure. When the argument on behalf of Taylor is that he is better than what we previously had (not saying you are making that argument) then that is a testament to the low bar this organization has created for itself. The reality is that this organization has taken an important step forward not because he is on the roster but because he is off the roster. I don't want to be harsh and label him a failure. But the reality is that as a qb he was inconsequential. That in itself is a negative judgment. John, we aren’t going to go round and round on this. You CANNOT simply ignore that he started 15 games this year on a playoff team. We can’t pretend that he didn’t at all contribute (both good and bad). You can’t say “the Bills went to the playoffs but the guy that touched the ball more than any other player had ZERO to do with it.” It doesn’t work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: John, we aren’t going to go round and round on this. You CANNOT simply ignore that he started 15 games this year on a playoff team. We can’t pretend that he didn’t at all contribute (both good and bad). You can’t say “the Bills went to the playoffs but the guy that touched the ball more than any other player had ZERO to do with it.” It doesn’t work like that. I say this with respect and comity but we are never going to agree on the Taylor issue. The Bills made the playoffs for a lot of fortuitous reasons. Spinning the argument that others are claiming he had zero responsibility is an unfair and bogus way to describe the criticisms directed toward him. As far as I'm concerned the Bills made the playoffs not primarily because of him but despite his play as a qb. When the strategy is for your qb not to lose the game that is a testament to how he is viewed by the organization. He is a fine fellow. For his sake and the franchise I'm glad he is on another team. I wish him well. I am now more optimistic than I have been in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzReaper Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 I didn't expect much from him when Ryan brought him here... He was an improvement. I can't hold him responsible for the management not being more decisive sooner regarding upgrading the position. Everyone knew we needed an upgrade at QB before last season and some even before that... That's not on Tyrod though. He gave us his best. I'd say he was a success... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 If he was a success in his short time in Buffalo, then he would still be here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 IDK, would anybody consider the Rex experiment a success? Probably not. Rex was 15-16 and Tyrod was 14-14 under Rex, that said, those 2 years under Rex I don't consider a success as I also don't consider Rex a success. Technically last year was a success but Tyrod regressed badly and IMO didn't really contribute a whole lot to last years success. I don't think he was a success as a player but throw in the fact he was traded for a 3rd rounder and that was a success. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg1029 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Everything is deserving of credit!! That’s the point. The Bills wore shirts around that read “playoff caliber.” That was their stated goal. We can discuss whether a team should have any goal other than Super Bow Champion but the Bills were more realistic. They set that goal and achieved it. In addition to achieving their goal they are in position to take the next step. To me you are either moving forward or moving backwards. The Tyrod era was moving forward. He was 23-20 in a Bills uniform. When I look at the scope of a regime I ask myself, “are they better now than when ____ got here?” I don’t think that anyone thinks that they were in a better place entering 2015 than they are entering 2018. Whether or not people want to withhold any credit to Tyrod for changing the dynamic and getting the team in the playoffs is up to them. I chose to think fondly on the past 3 years. When I think of an era in sports, I think about wins and losses (think macroscopic scale vs. microscopic scale). Not how the team improved etc. The Jim Kelly era was great because we won a lot. The EJ Manuel, Ryan Fitzpatrick, or -insert other failed Bills QB- era was not successful because we were... mediocre. When people look back at the Tyrod era, they won't remember improvements in the front office that helped our financial situation. People will remember .500 football, they will not remember a couple of slight improvements in the future outlook of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLess Price Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 7 hours ago, Gugny said: 8-8 7-9 9-7 (backing into playoffs) We (generally speaking) only consider this "success," because we're Bills fans. That is a crappy three seasons and I, personally, do not consider it a successful run. That's not all on Tyrod. It's a team game. And this team stunk the entire time he was here. I gotta agree with this. We got a 3rd round pick back and were gonna pakcage that to move up for a franchise QB. We also broke the drought even if it was flukey, successful for what we paid him? yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 49 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: I think everyone knows how we got into the playoffs. Success!!! Drought broken! And now onto finding our Franchise QB and getting a ring! Thats an option now that Tyrod the anchor isn’t here to suck the life out of the offense in wildcard games 31 minutes ago, ricojes said: If he was a success in his short time in Buffalo, then he would still be here. Correct. People don’t trade success for 3rd rounders. 53 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: Found the Bills with the longest playoff drought and left them as one of only 12 teams without a drought. SUCCESS!! Wrong. Being embarrassed in a wildcard game and being called the worst qb ever by Kornheiser is the opposite of success. I dont share these low standards just because I committed to backing Tyrod years ago like you two. Its all over. God bless, let’s draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: Wrong. Being embarrassed in a wildcard game and being called the worst qb ever by Kornheiser is the opposite of success. I dont share these low standards just because I committed to backing Tyrod years ago like you two. Its all over. God bless, let’s draft. Ah, I forgot about Kornholer, the bastien of all QB knowledge. Good point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 56 minutes ago, JohnC said: I say this with respect and comity but we are never going to agree on the Taylor issue. The Bills made the playoffs for a lot of fortuitous reasons. Spinning the argument that others are claiming he had zero responsibility is an unfair and bogus way to describe the criticisms directed toward him. As far as I'm concerned the Bills made the playoffs not primarily because of him but despite his play as a qb. When the strategy is for your qb not to lose the game that is a testament to how he is viewed by the organization. He is a fine fellow. For his sake and the franchise I'm glad he is on another team. I wish him well. I am now more optimistic than I have been in a long time. ?%. Out of points to give for the day McDermott and Beane = success Ryan, Marrone, Williams, ..... et el = losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA Grant Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 1 hour ago, corta765 said: Yes. Acquired him as an afterthought to EJ/Cassel. Took the starting role and finally at least made us remember what halfway decent QB play could look like. 2x Pro Bowl appearances are obviously skewed but that was still a welcome change to Fitz/EJ/Trent/JP etc.. Team was competitive with him and finally broke the drought and gave me a ton of great fun memories with him as QB. Always wished they stuck with the offense they had in 2015 player and scheme wise because I was curious on what he more he could've been with an offense more geared to him talent wise, but he was always more a place holder then "thee" guy. And in the end they got basically another 2nd round pick for him which was a huge gain that may be the final piece needed to get hopefully our new franchise QB. Exactly this. We never had the opportunity to see Tyrod with consistent receivers in a scheme that emphasized his skillset. It just didn't happen. The stats for the 15 games Tyrod when had both Sammy & Woods were both on the field are craaaaazy good. Bad luck or whatever you want to call it, but in all 3 seasons of the Tyrod era, the Bills were never able to consistently field their top two WRs. That makes a difference. On top of that, he was always in conservative run-first offenses, with a short leash. "Don't turn the ballover" was the stated goal, and expectations were low. He was the best option at the moment, but never considered to be a long-term answer by either Front Office he played for. I get that these sound like "excuses" to people who don't like Tyrod, but it's not "excusing" anything. It's giving context for what the starting QB had to deal with in those 3 seasons. I can't imagine anyone hopes for the same circumstances for the Bills' next QB. Bottom line — Tyrod was the QB who ended the drought. People can choose to give him credit or not, but he was the QB... maybe Kirk Cousins on last year's team puts up more passing yards, but he probably also throws more picks, and who knows if they're able to win the same amount of games or better? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, LA Grant said: Exactly this. We never had the opportunity to see Tyrod with consistent receivers in a scheme that emphasized his skillset. It just didn't happen. The stats for the 15 games Tyrod when had both Sammy & Woods were both on the field are craaaaazy good. Bad luck or whatever you want to call it, but in all 3 seasons of the Tyrod era, the Bills were never able to consistently field their top two WRs. That makes a difference. On top of that, he was always in conservative run-first offenses, with a short leash. "Don't turn the ballover" was the stated goal, and expectations were low. He was the best option at the moment, but never considered to be a long-term answer by either Front Office he played for. I get that these sound like "excuses" to people who don't like Tyrod, but it's not "excusing" anything. It's giving context for what the starting QB had to deal with in those 3 seasons. I can't imagine anyone hopes for the same circumstances for the Bills' next QB. Bottom line — Tyrod was the QB who ended the drought. People can choose to give him credit or not, but he was the QB... maybe Kirk Cousins on last year's team puts up more passing yards, but he probably also throws more picks, and who knows if they're able to win the same amount of games or better? Exactly it doesn't mean Ty didn't have has bad games either were the flaws he had over the 3 years showed. But 2015 also proved with a solid offense he could do a lot and probably the best move Rex made. I don't think he ever was a Top 10 guy, but I do think a team with a strong defense that put him in an offense like the 15 Bills could hit some pretty high heights IMO I also get though its easier to draft a pure pocket passer who doesn't require a ton of parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA Grant Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, corta765 said: Exactly it doesn't mean Ty didn't have has bad games either were the flaws he had over the 3 years showed. But 2015 also proved with a solid offense he could do a lot and probably the best move Rex made. I don't think he ever was a Top 10 guy, but I do think a team with a strong defense that put him in an offense like the 15 Bills could hit some pretty high heights IMO I also get though its easier to draft a pure pocket passer who doesn't require a ton of parts. 100%. Nick Foles this season is a great example of how different a QB can look when he's in a system that is customized to their skillset. Compare that to how Foles performed with Jeff Fisher's Rams. For the most part, Tyrod's OCs were more similar to Jeff Fisher's than to Doug Pederson's. Now that the Browns have Todd Haley as OC, I wouldn't be shocked to see Tyrod do well in Cleveland, and considering how annoying the Steelers are, I'd be very happy to see Tyrod & the Browns do well. EDIT — I also think 2015 was Tyrod's best season because we had both Sammy & Percy Harvin (for a little bit anyway)... basically, TT's game works when he has speedy downfield WRs. In 2016, he had fewer WRs like that. In 2017, even fewer still. It makes a difference. Edited March 12, 2018 by LA Grant 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: ?%. Out of points to give for the day McDermott and Beane = success Ryan, Marrone, Williams, ..... et el = losers. Just curious? What's the limit on points? When you observe what McBeane are doing you see a coherence and strategy to what they are doing. Even if you don't agree with everything they do at least you can see the logic that is being applied. As I said before I'm more optimistic now than I have been in a generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said: Thats an option now that Tyrod the anchor isn’t here to suck the life out of the offense in wildcard games Yeah... all ONE of them we've had this millennium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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