transplantbillsfan Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 On 2/26/2018 at 10:39 PM, Foxx said: i suppose i could have guessed you'd like Jackson.......Tyrod 2.0. Expand I've said and said and said that my top choices are Mayfield and Darnold, period. I also like Rudolph. I've actually said initially I didn't want Jackson specifically because he was too much like Taylor, but having researched and looked him over, I've warmed up to him so that now he's my #3 or #4, since I'd also put Rosen up in the top 3, but I legitimately don't think he's on our radar, despite rumors otherwise. I swear to Christ, if Taylor isn't the topic of conversation, leave it to the obsessed anTy Taylor crowd to be sure to bring him in, somehow.
Foxx Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) On 2/26/2018 at 10:57 PM, transplantbillsfan said: I've said and said and said that my top choices are Mayfield and Darnold, period. I also like Rudolph. I've actually said initially I didn't want Jackson specifically because he was too much like Taylor, but having researched and looked him over, I've warmed up to him so that now he's my #3 or #4, since I'd also put Rosen up in the top 3, but I legitimately don't think he's on our radar, despite rumors otherwise. I swear to Christ, if Taylor isn't the topic of conversation, leave it to the obsessed anTy Taylor crowd to be sure to bring him in, somehow. Expand yep, my fault for bringing Tyrod up. pot, meet kettle.... Edited February 26, 2018 by Foxx
Fadingpain Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 On 2/26/2018 at 9:27 PM, joesixpack said: Yes, God forbid we try and get a QB, and a quality one at that. That would just be horrible. Expand Haven't you noticed? A lot of Bills fans around here love the idea of using mediocre to below-mediocre QBs. Every second thread is about giving some retread washout QB a second chance. Lots of supporters for giving Manziel a second chance, but suggest swinging for the fence with a top prospect and "the price is too high!" 1
billspro Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 Here is the audio http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/02/audio-mike-mayock-2018-pre-nfl-scouting-combine-media-conference-call/
transplantbillsfan Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 On 2/26/2018 at 10:59 PM, Foxx said: yep, my fault for bringing Tyrod up. pot, meet kettle.... Expand Did I? No one even brought his name up other than you. He wasn't part of the conversation. But paint me with your broad brush. Tribalism reigns supreme and blinds everyone here, after all.
26CornerBlitz Posted February 26, 2018 Author Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) On 2/26/2018 at 11:04 PM, billspro said: Here is the audio http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/02/audio-mike-mayock-2018-pre-nfl-scouting-combine-media-conference-call/ Expand Link for the transcript as well as the audio. Edited February 26, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz
BuffAlone Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 On 2/26/2018 at 9:32 PM, Commonsense said: Vander Esch seems to be gaining momentum already, seems like he would be a good fit with McD if they aren't moving up. Expand Meh...the kid looks fast, and thats it. Not what I hope for unless its 3rd round or later. And at that point, he's Preston Brown. We need an upgrade there
OldTimer1960 Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 On 2/26/2018 at 9:26 PM, whatdrought said: I can't think of a worse way to follow our surprisingly good season last year than by drafting a QB too early. Expand Every QB is drafted “too early”. Seriously, with recognition that different positions are more or less important - and QB is almost universally recognized as THE most important position, how can you question drafting a QB early? What does the “BIG BOARD” mean? How do draft analysts put together a top 50 (or 100 or ....)? How do you compare QBs, DEs, OTs, DTs, CBs, Safeties, etc? I don’t look at the “BIG BOARD” for draft value. Draft value is, at least partly determined by your team’s strengths and weaknesses. On 2/26/2018 at 9:27 PM, CuddyDark said: Pay attention Bills. Expand Why? Do you want them to trade for Foles? i would not give much to get Foles - tops this year’s 3rd.
whatdrought Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 12:33 AM, OldTimer1960 said: Every QB is drafted “too early”. Seriously, with recognition that different positions are more or less important - and QB is almost universally recognized as THE most important position, how can you question drafting a QB early? What does the “BIG BOARD” mean? How do draft analysts put together a top 50 (or 100 or ....)? How do you compare QBs, DEs, OTs, DTs, CBs, Safeties, etc? I don’t look at the “BIG BOARD” for draft value. Draft value is, at least partly determined by your team’s strengths and weaknesses. Why? Do you want them to trade for Foles? i would not give much to get Foles - tops this year’s 3rd. Expand Too early is taking a a QB who is a mid second round talent in the first round. I''m not saying that we shouldn't take a QB early. I personally am fine with them trading up even for a QB. I also would be very upset if one of the "big four" are sitting at 21 and we don't take one. With that being said, reaching for a guy has never ever ever worked. The bills already have two examples in 15 years, I don't want a third.
CuddyDark Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) On 2/27/2018 at 12:33 AM, OldTimer1960 said: Every QB is drafted “too early”. Seriously, with recognition that different positions are more or less important - and QB is almost universally recognized as THE most important position, how can you question drafting a QB early? What does the “BIG BOARD” mean? How do draft analysts put together a top 50 (or 100 or ....)? How do you compare QBs, DEs, OTs, DTs, CBs, Safeties, etc? I don’t look at the “BIG BOARD” for draft value. Draft value is, at least partly determined by your team’s strengths and weaknesses. Why? Do you want them to trade for Foles? i would not give much to get Foles - tops this year’s 3rd. Expand No I want them to draft 3 first round picks if they can't trade up for a top QB. Edited February 27, 2018 by CuddyDark
billspro Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 On 2/26/2018 at 11:22 PM, BuffAlone said: Meh...the kid looks fast, and thats it. Not what I hope for unless its 3rd round or later. And at that point, he's Preston Brown. We need an upgrade there Expand He will probably go round 1, especially with a good combine. He has rare movement skills for an LB his size.
OldTimer1960 Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 12:39 AM, whatdrought said: Too early is taking a a QB who is a mid second round talent in the first round. I''m not saying that we shouldn't take a QB early. I personally am fine with them trading up even for a QB. I also would be very upset if one of the "big four" are sitting at 21 and we don't take one. With that being said, reaching for a guy has never ever ever worked. The bills already have two examples in 15 years, I don't want a third. Expand Respectfully, what is a mid-second round talent? I get that it might be a player "ranked" 42- 53 or so. But what does that really mean? How do you compare a LT, DE, OLB, QB, RB, etc. and how would you rank order players that play positions of varying importance?
ndirish1978 Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 On 2/26/2018 at 11:03 PM, Fadingpain said: Haven't you noticed? A lot of Bills fans around here love the idea of using mediocre to below-mediocre QBs. Every second thread is about giving some retread washout QB a second chance. Lots of supporters for giving Manziel a second chance, but suggest swinging for the fence with a top prospect and "the price is too high!" Expand The fear is real on this board 2
JMF2006 Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 2:00 AM, ndirish1978 said: The fear is real on this board Expand Well my way of looking at it is you better hope you have a Straight Flush if your going all in on QB poker. The nice thing is FA is first so you can fill some needs and if you do that the gamble isn't that big.
whatdrought Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 1:56 AM, OldTimer1960 said: Respectfully, what is a mid-second round talent? I get that it might be a player "ranked" 42- 53 or so. But what does that really mean? How do you compare a LT, DE, OLB, QB, RB, etc. and how would you rank order players that play positions of varying importance? Expand The ranking has more to do with how you allot your resources. That's why people always say "best player available" because the idea is that you take a player who is worthy of the draft position in which you're picking. Most teams have enough holes or potential holes that they are able to accommodate this and still get a player in a place of need. The break down is when you draft a player whose personal talent level is not worth a first round pick. This happens all the time with QB's and rarely works because you're (unless that player far exceeds their "draft stock" which happens, but is rare) getting your moneys worth. This has nothing to do with comparing different position groups, but rather has to do with individual analysis of these specific players. So that when you rank all of the QB's (for instance) and you see 5 (As Mayock said) with a first round value, and all 5 are gone by pick 21, it is rare that reaching for the 6th guy with a 2nd round grade is going to make the situation better because you aren't getting good value. So what I am saying is that if Rudolph is not a 1st round QB (which most respected draft "experts" agree he is not) then taking him at 21 just because we have the need would be foolish. The best way I can think to illustrate this point is if you imagine the same situation but instead there are only 6 QB's in the entire draft and all of them except one have been drafted by 21, and that 1 is Nathan Peterman. Does the need justify spending a first rounder on him? I don't think that it does.
26CornerBlitz Posted February 27, 2018 Author Posted February 27, 2018 Peter King: Combine crash course with Mike MayockIt’s the most wonderful time of the year.For Mike Mayock, and for draftniks. Starting Friday at 9 a.m., NFL Network will show about 36 hours of live on-field combine coverage over four days from Indianapolis. ESPN will be on the air from Indy for big chunks of the weekend too.I caught up with Mayock over the weekend as he took a break from tape study. He educated poor, pitiful me as I played catchup on the college names and the 2018 draft. I’m probably not the only one who has never seen a snap of Leighton Vander Esch, so step into the combine classroom. Professor Mayock is at the podium.
Jamie Muellers Ghost Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 On 2/26/2018 at 11:22 PM, BuffAlone said: Meh...the kid looks fast, and thats it. Not what I hope for unless its 3rd round or later. And at that point, he's Preston Brown. We need an upgrade there Expand Watch his highlights, length, explosiveness, coverage, and speed. Its 2018 not 1985. Mike really likes Lamar Jackson eeh ?
BuffAlone Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 7:34 AM, Jamie Muellers Ghost said: Watch his highlights, length, explosiveness, coverage, and speed. Its 2018 not 1985. Mike really likes Lamar Jackson eeh ? Expand Yeah, I've watched some highlights. I agree he's fast, but thats all I see at this point.Im not sold on his instincts or football IQ. Maybe Im wrong...wouldn't be the first time lol
OldTimer1960 Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 2:08 AM, whatdrought said: The ranking has more to do with how you allot your resources. That's why people always say "best player available" because the idea is that you take a player who is worthy of the draft position in which you're picking. Most teams have enough holes or potential holes that they are able to accommodate this and still get a player in a place of need. The break down is when you draft a player whose personal talent level is not worth a first round pick. This happens all the time with QB's and rarely works because you're (unless that player far exceeds their "draft stock" which happens, but is rare) getting your moneys worth. This has nothing to do with comparing different position groups, but rather has to do with individual analysis of these specific players. So that when you rank all of the QB's (for instance) and you see 5 (As Mayock said) with a first round value, and all 5 are gone by pick 21, it is rare that reaching for the 6th guy with a 2nd round grade is going to make the situation better because you aren't getting good value. So what I am saying is that if Rudolph is not a 1st round QB (which most respected draft "experts" agree he is not) then taking him at 21 just because we have the need would be foolish. The best way I can think to illustrate this point is if you imagine the same situation but instead there are only 6 QB's in the entire draft and all of them except one have been drafted by 21, and that 1 is Nathan Peterman. Does the need justify spending a first rounder on him? I don't think that it does. Expand I'm with you, but I also think supply and demand has some effect on the draft value of a player. I think I can agree that Rudolph is probably a bit less talented physically than Rosen, Darnold, Allen and Jackson. I also can agree that Mayfield might have better leadership traits. However, I think it still comes down to: If the Bills feel that Mason Rudolph can become a good long-term starter for them, I would think that makes him worth pick 21 or 22. Waiting and taking the chance that they can get him in round 2 wouldn't make sense, unless they also felt that there was another one or two QBs also left that they think are as good as Rudolph (Mike White, Kyle Lauletta, for example). 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 On 2/26/2018 at 9:20 PM, 26CornerBlitz said: NFL DRAFT5 Prospect Takeaways from Mayock Mike Mayock fielded questions from around the league on this year's top draft prospects and the 2018 Scouting Combine. See what he had to say about this year's QBs, player comps and Johnny Manziel. Expand Isn't Josh Jackson a freshman? I had no idea he was entering the draft. On 2/26/2018 at 9:29 PM, whatdrought said: My meaning was regarding taking Rudolph in the first round. Not sure if you were mocking that idea, or if you misunderstood. I want you to be well informed in your mockery. Expand Historically, if a team wants to draft a QB in the first 3 rounds and waits until they fall to exactly where they're slotted, they go home empty. QB always get over-drafted.
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