Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Boyst62 said: Legally all this is a mess. But that's why it will be settled. He will get 6 figures and blow it all on something foolish. I know. I think, if I just hit the weights a little harder I’d have the chance to blow it all on something foolish.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: No u. I question your intelligence hahaha. More than half the thread blames Kolby. Ever played college ball? it's hardly education. and nutcases like this coach make it worse. But sure, the NCAA is well known as a very reputable organization. I don't really give a crap about your other points, you don't understand phrases of speech. Example: "but hey let's invest in BitCoin". This is making fun of BitCoin investors, not the entire world population. "hey let's jump on tables": you interpret that as a claim that you jump on tables lol. Go talk to your lawyers, see what they think. I gotchu ODB. I'm highly intelligent. And I opted not to play football and ran track d1. Chose it to preserve my body and knowing I enjoyed running more. Quit after first year. Just fell out of love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg1029 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Boyst62 said: this thread brings you out. which is that self righteous white knight you we have all known to love. at least, those who pay attention remember you. you just generalized an entire fan base jumping through tables without the common sense to realize most bills fans don't do that and it's less than 10% even at the highest bullshitting estimate then you talk about playing a game for free - he wasn't. he was getting a free education. if anything, he was the beneficiary of the relationship between football and school. then you take it to a personal level saying that he's not a lawyer, well, would you know? are you? would you like me to tag some lawyers here and we can have them hash this out (don't worry, i know you couldn't keep up so i won't). the above quote i made of yours exhibits exactly what you said: ignorance, self involvement, delusional and not funny or creative. but, if i need someone to actually construct a completely worthless post, i'll consider giving you a call.. gtfo here. If you think most D1 football players are really getting an education, then you're rather naive. They go to school to play football. Their classwork is as minimal as can be, because it interferes with what they are really there for-football. That's not to say that there aren't people who do get something out of the scholarship, but they are definitely few and far between. The fact of the matter is that the coach holds all the power in the relationship. He controls scholarships and he controls playing time. If the coach says jump, you have no choice but to say "how high?" unless you want to get on the coach's bad side and risk losing playing time or your scholarship. If he says "play the game despite your injury", you play the game. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, HardyBoy said: Pretty sure you lost this one...pretty sure you know it too. No, he just wasn't worth replying to. I'd spank him. 1 hour ago, Ol Dirty B said: Where did I shift the field goal posts? That wasn't relevant? You accused him of giving into peer pressure, and defended the current structure of college athletics. I responded, and you came up with a cop out because your positions, especially in this thread, are largely indefensible. Next time you want to call me out, remember this. When you ha e to bring economics and all of that mumbo jumbo you've lost the argument. You lost focus of your argument. Etc. Sorry, your attempt was terrible. 2 minutes ago, berg1029 said: If you think most D1 football players are really getting an education, then you're rather naive. They go to school to play football. Their classwork is as minimal as can be, because it interferes with what they are really there for-football. That's not to say that there aren't people who do get something out of the scholarship, but they are definitely few and far between. The fact of the matter is that the coach holds all the power in the relationship. He controls scholarships and he controls playing time. If the coach says jump, you have no choice but to say "how high?" unless you want to get on the coach's bad side and risk losing playing time or your scholarship. If he says "play the game despite your injury", you play the game. Again, I played d1 sports. I know the reality of this. It's on the student to live up to their potential Y'all kids arguing the NCAA is responsible for letting idiots stay idiots because they're too stupid to understand their ball game won't last forever. But, sure. I'm an internet attorney tough guy calling these dancing kids pansies and snowflakes and you know better because you read Forbes, sports illustrated, saw Concussion and played JV soccer 2 yrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Boyst62 said: No, he just wasn't worth replying to. I'd spank him. When you ha e to bring economics and all of that mumbo jumbo you've lost the argument. You lost focus of your argument. Etc. Sorry, your attempt was terrible. Again, I played d1 sports. I know the reality of this. It's on the student to live up to their potential Y'all kids arguing the NCAA is responsible for letting idiots stay idiots because they're too stupid to understand their ball game won't last forever. But, sure. I'm an internet attorney tough guy calling these dancing kids pansies and snowflakes and you know better because you read Forbes, sports illustrated, saw Concussion and played JV soccer 2 yrs. What are you talking about? Mumbo jumbo and economics? I didn't think my opinion of your intelligence could dip any lower but it has. You can't refute any of what I said, that's what's going on here. You realized that if you want to continue this discussion, with actual logic and reasoning, that I'd make you look like the unintelligent fool you are. Again, remember this next time you attempt to have a conversation with me on real life **** rather than who's the better qb. Remember this thread, think about it, then just don't respond to me. You're old, out of touch, and now really talking about stuff you don't know about. The resume card, whenever someone's pulls that out. You know they lost. You ran d1 track, congrat u !@#$ing lations. When did you run d1 track? The 70's? and it's track, I'm not downplaying it because it's track, but because that's usually not a money making program. So yes, people like you should be grateful that your sport was subsidized. You lived in the section 8 of sports. You don't know the first thing you're talking about. I could come out here and trot my resume, but I won't, because I know what I'm talking about. A hell of a lot more than a guy who ran d1 track in the 70s or some ****. What a joke. My economics and mumbo jumbo and this ass hat wants to trot out his 1 year d1 track career. And he chose track to preserve his body. Do you have any self awareness to look at yourself and how stupid you sound? It's irritating. Edited February 2, 2018 by Ol Dirty B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I'll only add this as one caveat since the only thing that matters to this guy is personal experience. I played with a kid, 19, sophomore, showed up out of shape at the beginning of the season. He couldn't perform, coach pulls his scholarship. Had a little trouble with grades, but never got in serious trouble. He was a good kid, but a bit immature. No more immature than most of us who actually played. He was a starter his freshman year. He was recruited from Jamaica. He went and stayed with some family in NYC and ends up being deported before the spring semester. His visa required him attending school, and at that point when he lost his scholarship he didn't have really any recourse for him to pay for school. He's gone. Does he deserve some of the blame, of course. But he was recruited to come here, and then he was gone because he pissed off a coach showing up out of shape. So listening to some ass hat talk about his d1 track as if that makes him qualified at all, when I've seen kids lose scholarships, seen coaches threatened to be fired or get fired, and said ass is making jokes like it's just peer pressure and stuff. You don't know at all what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 all i see is a former bills scouting staff who blew it on their e v a l of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Damn, there is so much salt in this thread that I needed a glass of water before finishing up lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 10 hours ago, Steptide said: I'm willing to bet with the "me too" movement and all the sexual abuse that's been in the media lately, that this kinda story about listen bee will start to come out more and more from different schools and sports. Despite its apparent connection to JBoyst, I fail to see the relation between sexual abuse and athletic programs such as football. Considering some of his past descriptions of sacking the quarterback, perhaps there is one after all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 So I'm curious. Are his injuries still preventing him from making an NFL roster now, or is he healthy and teams are just not willing to give him an opportunity? I would think that with his speed, if he was healthy, he would still have a chance. That being said, if he wins his lawsuit, will he give the Bills back any of the money he took from them while mis-representing how bad his injuries really were? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 13 hours ago, Boyst62 said: Kolby, no one forced you to do anything. GTFO And here's your song, pansy Edit:. Just for kicks he needs to add #metoo to his story. I hope he wins just so you can get super pissed off about it and go off and sulk about it, and then wipe your tears with your white hood. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Boyst62 said: No, he just wasn't worth replying to. I'd spank him. When you ha e to bring economics and all of that mumbo jumbo you've lost the argument. You lost focus of your argument. Etc. Sorry, your attempt was terrible. Again, I played d1 sports. I know the reality of this. It's on the student to live up to their potential Y'all kids arguing the NCAA is responsible for letting idiots stay idiots because they're too stupid to understand their ball game won't last forever. But, sure. I'm an internet attorney tough guy calling these dancing kids pansies and snowflakes and you know better because you read Forbes, sports illustrated, saw Concussion and played JV soccer 2 yrs. Boyst, I don't want to get into the room o' insult slinging between you guys, but I do think you're being naive here. Or disingenuous. Or both. Where did you play D1 and when? I'm glad you had a good experience, "lived up to your potential" and hopefully graduated. But this notion of "free" education for college athletes is today, something scattered around your fields and I don't mean daisies. If a company offered you a herd of "free" Charolais at the cost of you spending 40-50 hrs a week performing activities specified and directed by that company for no pay and you lose the cows if you don't comply with everything they ask you to do, do you really want to claim it's a logical argument that herd is free? Hmmmmm? It may still be a good opportunity for you, but you're by-damn paying for it. Bottom line up front: with big TV revenue on the line and coaches who are paid millions to put a winning product on the field and preserve that revenue stream, college ball has become a cash mill fed with the grist of student athletes who are expected to be athletes first, and many of whom are ill-equipped to be students. Yes, they get a chance at a "free" education, that they are asked to pay for with hours that exceed a full-time job of training and playing, and if the education and training conflict: sacrifice the education. I totally believe kids are pressured to accept treatment that is long-term detrimental to injuries, so they can short-term keep playing, that they are threatened with losing scholarships and having the coach shitcan any chance of an NFL career if they don't comply. Without a knowledgeable family network behind them, the kids see no option. This is why I believe that: Friend who went to school on a D1 scholarship in a sport with no limelight, no TV revenue, relatively low-paid coach. Graduated summa cum laude with a degree in engineering and is now playing that sport professionally in Europe. Took the team high in the NCAA tourney Senior year - quarters I think. She got a free education in a tech field, the team got great value from her. Great story right? Shows what D1 athletics can give to student athletes Yes but. She was injured her sophomore year after being pushed to overtax her shoulder with insufficient recovery during practices and tournaments, and pressured by the coach, trainer, and AD to have twice weekly cortisone injections and keep playing or lose her scholarship. Her family had the means to bring her home for a second opinion. Faced with a nationally known specialist's written diagnosis and treatment plan, including limiting cortisone injections, the coach, trainer, and AD backed down. She rehabbed like crazy off season and came back stronger than ever her last two years, but she was still 1) pressured to train AMA (against medical advice) even though her fitness for the sport was top notch 2) humiliated and belittled by the coach for sticking to her training plan 3) threatened by the coach and AD with dismissal and loss of her scholarship for taking a REQUIRED PREREQUISITE COURSE in her major (the major the coach had agreed to when she signed) that conflicted with an extra weight training session, even though she offered to complete the training at a time without conflicts, and the trainer agreed to supervise her lifts at that time. The coach took the position she should change majors (halfway through her Jr year). Her parents involved the Dean and the NCAA and the coach and AD and coach backed down again. She was humiliated and belittled by the coach all through the process, and I'm sure taking a stand for her health and her education only intensified that. Summary: small money sport, no TV revenue in question, smart girl who keeps her nose clean and trains like a demon, and she's still pressured as a scholarship athlete to play injured, accept treatment known to have serious detrimental side effects, sacrifice her education and abandon her major needlessly for training, humiliated belittled and threatened with loss of scholarship several times. And that's a good case with a great ending. Switch to a high-revenue high-sport and a coach "given much, from whom much is expected" and it has to get more intense. If she didn't have the support network she did, it could easily have ended with her not graduating or graduating with a degree in basketweaving, and with permanent damage to her shoulder cartilage that would preclude her current professional career. And for thousands of these D1 athletes, that is how it ends: no professional career, no degree ('cuz they didn't have the time management skills to play and study, or the academic background to benefit from college), or a not-useful degree, or loss of scholarship and dismissal. PS for a guy from upstate NY, "snowflake" has to be dumbest insult ever. What can shut down the city for days? What can roar down a mountain burying buildings and smashing them? Bunch o' snowflakes that's what. Edited February 2, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 11 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said: But hey let's jump through tables and then rip on a guy who was receiving three steroid injections to play a single game for free. Today, in every city in America, patients will be getting steroids injected into various joints just so they can get through a day at a job where they aren't paid millions to toss or catch a ball on an adult playground field while millions of their fans watch them on TV. 10 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said: Wow. If Listenbee's allegations are accurate, then TCU is exposed to serious liability. For those wondering why it took so long, maybe he didn't realize the extent of the damage until now. It also takes time to build a case before you file. His attorney(s) may have been working on this for the last few years. I'll reserve judgement, but I don't find it at all unlikely that some Neanderthal throwback coach would bully an injured athlete onto the field. What is their liability? The guy was healthy enough (at least he told everyone he was) when he left college to be drafting into and play in the NFL and has appeared on 3 rosters. He's going to wash out of the NFL like many players before him have and NOW he wants to claim it was because of an injury he had to "play through" a few years ago in college. It doesn't take this long to "build a case"--he knew all he knows now when he finished his college career. If he was making big money now, he wouldn't be suing. 9 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said: I hope he wins just so you can get super pissed off about it and go off and sulk about it, and then wipe your tears with your white hood. Oh no you di'in't....!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: Today, in every city in America, patients will be getting steroids injected into various joints just so they can get through a day at a job where they aren't paid millions to toss or catch a ball on an adult playground field while millions of their fans watch them on TV. That is true, WEO, but the difference is that reputable doctors limit corticosteroid injections to one every 6 weeks, and 3-4 a year because they know very well that more frequent injections can damage the supportive tissue in the joint. They also place patients on "work restrictions" that limit the tasks they can be asked to perform while the injury heals. Industries that have strong worker protection follow those. Industries which can hire and fire workers at will in states with weak worker's comp are another story, which is why patients turn to pain relief medication (still another story) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptide Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Despite its apparent connection to JBoyst, I fail to see the relation between sexual abuse and athletic programs such as football. Considering some of his past descriptions of sacking the quarterback, perhaps there is one after all? I didn't mean sexual harassment stories would come out of sports. I meant stories like bullying, forcing players to play injured and that kinda thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Just now, Steptide said: I didn't mean sexual harassment stories would come out of sports. I meant stories like bullying, forcing players to play injured and that kinda thing I agree with you on the latter. For one thing, the line between "coaching" and "bullying" can be very thin. For another, I think it's inevitable under a system where coaches are paid millions with the chance of more millions if they deliver, and delivering depends on student athletes who have very few checks and balances supporting them. No one penalizes the coach if his athletes don't graduate or come out of his program debilitated. It's an accepted part of the scene. I just didn't see the connection to #metoo. I guess, now that I think about it, there is a connection: the same market forces that favor abusive coaches pushing athletes to play hurt, also favor coaches doing whatever it takes to keep those athletes eligible to play - including sketchy academic practices, and covering up or influencing investigation into athlete misbehavior or crimes. #metoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: That is true, WEO, but the difference is that reputable doctors limit corticosteroid injections to one every 6 weeks, and 3-4 a year because they know very well that more frequent injections can damage the supportive tissue in the joint. They also place patients on "work restrictions" that limit the tasks they can be asked to perform while the injury heals. Industries that have strong worker protection follow those. Industries which can hire and fire workers at will in states with weak worker's comp are another story, which is why patients turn to pain relief medication (still another story) This player was cleared to return by an "off campus" doctor as well as the team physician. How would a coaching staff over-ride that clearance? Or why would they? The people I was referring to have chronic pain and receive injections (often mixed with local anesthetic) indefinitely. It's how they are able to do their regular work duties without significant restrictions. Look, I feel bad that this kid's career didn't work out as he had hoped. But he was clearly misrepresenting himself to the Bills and the NFL when he came out of college regarding his injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 41 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said: I hope he wins just so you can get super pissed off about it and go off and sulk about it, and then wipe your tears with your white hood. I wouldn't give a **** if he wins. He won't. He will settle, disirregardless. And I don't use my white hood for the tears. I use my maxipad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Waaaaaaaaa he is a snowflake!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: This player was cleared to return by an "off campus" doctor as well as the team physician. How would a coaching staff over-ride that clearance? Or why would they? The people I was referring to have chronic pain and receive injections (often mixed with local anesthetic) indefinitely. It's how they are able to do their regular work duties without significant restrictions. Look, I feel bad that this kid's career didn't work out as he had hoped. But he was clearly misrepresenting himself to the Bills and the NFL when he came out of college regarding his injury. I agree with the last point. Listenbee rooked the Bills and the NFL regarding the severity and scope of his injury. I also think there's a good bit of hindsight - knowing some student athletes, chances are Listenbee wanted to raise his draft stock by playing in pain, or was at least recognized he would reap some benefit by going along with the coach's plan. On the former point, the experience of my friend is that "local" doctors and team physicians aren't impartial medical professionals - in a small town, the only orthopedic specialist likely has some connection to the team as well. They tend toward treatments and clearances that benefit the team by keeping the athlete playing, not the long-term health of the athlete. The "check and balance" is the same the NFL players bargained into the CBA: the right to be seen by a physician of the athlete's choice, with no connection to the school. But that's out of reach for many student athletes. Can we agree that it's generally accepted "best practice" to limit the frequency of corticosteroid injections, with the usual guidelines being every six weeks and 4/yr? I do know people afraid to lose their job if they bring in medical restrictions, who take pain meds and have regular toradol injections to keep going (and know of others who became addicts that route). Edited February 2, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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