QB Film Room: Mason Rudolph

[K-9]

2 hours ago, kdiggz said:

it would have been nice to see him under center vs the other competition.  the only opportunity they will have now is the combine and if they host him on a visit and even then they are only throwing vs air.  this was their one shot to see him live and in action

Sure it would have been nice, but it’s not nearly the disaster you seem to think it is, either. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING these players do on the field the field this week is going to amount to more or less than what they’ve put on video over the course of their college careers. Rudolph has been seen in person by the scouting community numerous times. They will get a close up sense of how the ball comes out when he is asked to workout by various teams over the next couple of months, too. 

 

It is only a disappointment for fans who want to see him perform, but not the teams on hand at the Senior Bowl. Rudolph is making an impression on them,  regardless.

[KDIGGZ]

I don't agree at all. They will put them into situations out of their comfort zone and see what things they can and can't do outside of what they have seen on tape. That is especially important for a player like Rudolph who was in a gimmicky offense that does not translate to the NFL. This is a big deal whether you believe it or not

 

I might even go as far as to say he will not be selected in the 1st round now and this will be a factor as to why.  It's true that it only takes 1 team to like you but teams might view him as more of a risk now than if they saw him doing the things they think he can't do this week.  We will see come draft time but don't be surprised if he is there at 21 and we pass.

[K-9]

15 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

I don't agree at all. They will put them into situations out of their comfort zone and see what things they can and can't do outside of what they have seen on tape. That is especially important for a player like Rudolph who was in a gimmicky offense that does not translate to the NFL. This is a big deal whether you believe it or not

 

I might even go as far as to say he will not be selected in the 1st round now and this will be a factor as to why.  It's true that it only takes 1 team to like you but teams might view him as more of a risk now than if they saw him doing the things they think he can't do this week.  We will see come draft time but don't be surprised if he is there at 21 and we pass.

But it's just not in the eyes of the scouts and other personnel people that are there. It would have been preferable, a way to add some pluses in the plus column if he participated, but that's not the same thing as attaching any red flags because he isn't. Next week I'll be privy to a little info and I won't be shocked to learn that he did very well in his interviews this week. I think we'll learn he actually checked a couple of boxes in that plus column. 

 

I think you and other fans may be projecting their own disappointment because they needed to see him in action this week. I'm disappointed, too. 

[thebandit27]

On 1/24/2018 at 3:21 PM, K-9 said:

Sure it would have been nice, but it’s not nearly the disaster you seem to think it is, either. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING these players do on the field the field this week is going to amount to more or less than what they’ve put on video over the course of their college careers. Rudolph has been seen in person by the scouting community numerous times. They will get a close up sense of how the ball comes out when he is asked to workout by various teams over the next couple of months, too. 

 

It is only a disappointment for fans who want to see him perform, but not the teams on hand at the Senior Bowl. Rudolph is making an impression on them,  regardless.

 

Indeed...about the most you can learn on the field this week is how well a guy is able to take instruction in practice and incorporate the coaching points into his practice routine.

 

Everything else is just a confirmation of what you see on game tape, or--in some rare cases--a red flag that makes you go back to the tape to see if you can catch any additional tendencies.

[LabattBlue]

In the last hour, I heard Sal's guest on WGR(some draftnik by the name of Marino) compare Rudolph to Chad Henne and another mediocre QB from the past whose name escapes me).  

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

In the last hour, I heard Sal's guest on WGR(some draftnik by the name of Marino) compare Rudolph to Chad Henne and another mediocre QB from the past whose name escapes me).  

 

At this point it's all projection...

 

Rudolph has good physical attributes and looks the part...

 

but you you need to project how his skills and  talents will play out on an NFL field instead of the Big12

 

Not many spread QBs have succeeded long term besides Brees and Newton. Tannehill if you want to add him

 

Nobody wants to back the kid 100% because it's a crapshoot whether he ever picks up the NFL game 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

27 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

At this point it's all projection...

 

Rudolph has good physical attributes and looks the part...

 

but you you need to project how his skills and  talents will play out on an NFL field instead of the Big12

 

Not many spread QBs have succeeded long term besides Brees and Newton. Tannehill if you want to add him

 

Nobody wants to back the kid 100% because it's a crapshoot whether he ever picks up the NFL game 

.,,,is Culley the right guy to train and develop him as well as Peterman or do you want a more seasoned QB Coach versus a WR Coach?....sure as hell hope Daboll has some input here..........

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

.,,,is Culley the right guy to train and develop him as well as Peterman or do you want a more seasoned QB Coach versus a WR Coach?....sure as hell hope Daboll has some input here..........

 

He is not my favorite BUT I don't put as much stock in the whole he's more of a WR coach than QB coach than most.

 

Hes a football coach and it's not like his specialty is defense.

 

He probably gives some really good insight on the QB position from a different perspective. 

 

I have been asked to coach WRs and I never played WR in my life. But as a Student of football and a technique sound DB I brought a different perspective to the WR room. How to break down a CB to run more nuanced routes etc

 

But to get back I would not personally want him to develop our future franchise QB. Since we are going college route with Dabol I wouldn't mind getting a bright young QB guru from those ranks 

 

One name I like, Chris Weinke, the ex heisman winner. He is a full time QB coach at IMG Academy in Florida 

 

He has worked with really good QBs already like Tannehill, Newton, Cousins, Ponder, Russell Wilson

 

That would be an innovative hire

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

He is not my favorite BUT I don't put as much stock in the whole he's more of a WR coach than QB coach than most.

 

Hes a football coach and it's not like his specialty is defense.

 

He probably gives some really good insight on the QB position from a different perspective. 

 

I have been asked to coach WRs and I never played WR in my life. But as a Student of football and a technique sound DB I brought a different perspective to the WR room. How to break down a CB to run more nuanced routes etc

 

But to get back I would not personally want him to develop our future franchise QB. Since we are going college route with Dabol I wouldn't mind getting a bright young QB guru from those ranks 

 

One name I like, Chris Weinke, the ex heisman winner. He is a full time QB coach at IMG Academy in Florida 

 

He has worked with really good QBs already like Tannehill, Newton, Cousins, Ponder, Russell Wilson

 

That would be an innovative hire

...thanks bud.....interesting how collegiate QB's like Dorsey or Weinke never made their mark at the NFL level but are now notables in coaching circles..........

[Buffalo716]

Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...thanks bud.....interesting how collegiate QB's like Dorsey or Weinke never made their mark at the NFL level but are now notables in coaching circles..........

 

I take that back it looks like Weinke was with Alabama last year and now with Tennessee 

 

It really doesn't surprise me that much...

 

Weinke is obviously very talented, he won the heisman, but he just wasnt talented enough To be a high caliber NFL player.

 

He has good smarts and was a coachable player. He seems like the perfect offensive coach in waiting. Whether its QB, offensive assistant or Coordinator 

[thebandit27]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

At this point it's all projection...

 

Rudolph has good physical attributes and looks the part...

 

but you you need to project how his skills and  talents will play out on an NFL field instead of the Big12

 

Not many spread QBs have succeeded long term besides Brees and Newton. Tannehill if you want to add him

 

Nobody wants to back the kid 100% because it's a crapshoot whether he ever picks up the NFL game 

 

I would include Alex Smith in the group of successes, which is quite the rarity considering he came from Urban's spread option scheme.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I would include Alex Smith in the group of successes, which is quite the rarity considering he came from Urban's spread option scheme.

 

100% I can't  believe I forgot Alex Smith in Urbans spread option 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

At this point it's all projection...

 

Rudolph has good physical attributes and looks the part...

 

but you you need to project how his skills and  talents will play out on an NFL field instead of the Big12

 

Not many spread QBs have succeeded long term besides Brees and Newton. Tannehill if you want to add him

 

Nobody wants to back the kid 100% because it's a crapshoot whether he ever picks up the NFL game 

 

Didn't Dak Prescott play in a spread offense?

 

Edit: what about Goff?

 

Caveat: this is just what I read in, for example this article

Edited January 27, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Buffalo716]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

Didn't Dak Prescott play in a spread offense?

 

I said succeeded long term

 

Dak isn't exactly a 7-10 year vet 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

I said succeeded long term

 

Dak isn't exactly a 7-10 year vet 

 

Gotcha, so that would apply to Goff too. 

 

But wouldn't that just give them more props? 

 

Smith took maybe 6 years to start looking like a decent pro QB, Brees maybe 4 to start looking like "all that" - if Goff and Prescott came from spread offenses and picked up the NFL right away, that would be a good sign for spread offense success?

 

Caveat again: I've read Prescott claims Mississippi State ran a pro-style offense just not from under center.  I don't know a thing about what Cal really runs

[LABILLBACKER]

On 1/23/2018 at 2:00 AM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Not my favorite, but I could deal with it (as long as he produces  )

 

 

 

 maybe he figured he'd drop to the third round if he played poorly.

 

 

There's no way he drops to the 3rd round but he could still be there for our first 2nd rounder. I like this kid and i know McD likes him too. Him not playing today with his hand size might just make him fall to us. He will take developing. 

[Buffalo716]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Gotcha, so that would apply to Goff too. 

 

But wouldn't that just give them more props? 

 

Smith took maybe 6 years to start looking like a decent pro QB, Brees maybe 4 to start looking like "all that" - if Goff and Prescott came from spread offenses and picked up the NFL right away, that would be a good sign for spread offense success?

 

Caveat again: I've read Prescott claims Mississippi State ran a pro-style offense just not from under center.  I don't know a thing about what Cal really runs

 

Cal runs a complete air raid and yes it bodes well for Goff that he's looking good so soon

 

I think he is a much better QB than Prescott though and think he'll have a much better career 

[GunnerBill]

I think it is worth saying as well that there is an increasing divergence in concepts between college offenses and pro offenses. People get very caught up in formation - is the QB in the gun; is it a single back or empty set; are the receivers set wide; where does the tight end line up; how wide are the lineman and what stance are the adopting... all those things remain different in a lot of college offenses vs NFL offenses but the concepts of how the plays are designed to attack defenses are definitely diverging. I am not just talking about RPO either which everyone has been talking about this year, though that has definitely been part of it. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Cal runs a complete air raid and yes it bodes well for Goff that he's looking good so soon

I think he is a much better QB than Prescott though and think he'll have a much better career 

 

From what I've seen, I concur.  Prescott seems to need a great run game to build off of.

 

So if it's not imposing by needing too much answer, what would you look for as a scout as clues that an "air raid" offense QB might transition readily to the pros as Goff (or Prescott) seem to have done?

Edited January 28, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[K-9]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think it is worth saying as well that there is an increasing divergence in concepts between college offenses and pro offenses. People get very caught up in formation - is the QB in the gun; is it a single back or empty set; are the receivers set wide; where does the tight end line up; how wide are the lineman and what stance are the adopting... all those things remain different in a lot of college offenses vs NFL offenses but the concepts of how the plays are designed to attack defenses are definitely diverging. I am not just talking about RPO either which everyone has been talking about this year, though that has definitely been part of it. 

It’s not the lack of pro style offenses these college QBs run so much as it’s the lack of variety in the defenses they see on a week to week basis that makes them utterly incapable of readily being able to recognize and beat the array of pro defenses they see in the NFL. When a spread QB sees little more than quarters coverage every week, he’s just not gonna hit the ground running in the pro. 

 

And that’s before taking into considersation the sheer superiority of the athletes on the defenses they face in the NFL.