ProcessTheTrust Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I understand the fears of trading away the farm to get our QB when we have so many other immediate needs. However, watching the Rams and Eagles this year, I can't help but remember how almost everyone laughed at them in 2016 when they paid the following to go get their QBs for the next decade or so: Rams - Gave: 2016 1st, 2 2nds, 3rd, 2017 1st, 3rd Received: 2016 1st overall pick, 4th, 6th Eagles - Gave: 2016 1st, 3rd, 4th, 2017 1st, 2018 2nd Received: 2016 2nd overall pick and a 2017 4th I'm not saying we should make such a dramatic move just because it worked for both the Rams and Eagles so quickly. I'm asking - if Darnold and Rosen come out of the combine with projections of being "the guy" worthy, how much would you be willing to give away to go get them? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 It's irrelevant at this point until we can get a gauge on what the team will do in FA. If they do not make the FA acquisitions at certain positions there's just no way we can do that. The team has way too many holes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 IMO you don't need the combine to determine if they are worth it. Game tape tells the tale.. Any team who draft a player based upon combine numbers could be drafting a Maybin type of player. as for the Bills if they have that much faith in a QB to move up you make the move because a franchise QB is THE game changer in this league 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTheTrust Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, NewEraBills said: It's irrelevant at this point until we can get a gauge on what the team will do in FA. If they do not make the FA acquisitions at certain positions there's just no way we can do that. The team has way too many holes. I get that, 100%. I wish I could remember how far way both the Eagle and Rams seemed from being complete teams as well. I mean, I know how the Rams filled their WR holes, haha! Seriously though, I'm just curious what we think our price would be....in this bizzaro world where we would make this move. 1 minute ago, ddaryl said: IMO you don't need the combine to determine if they are worth it. Game tape tells the tale.. Any team who draft a player based upon combine numbers could be drafting a Maybin type of player. as for the Bills if they have that much faith in a QB to move up you make the move because a franchise QB is THE game changer in this league True, I don't personally put that much stock in the combine, but I've given in to the fact that it plays a role in the overall evaluation. Agreed, the real story is already on tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) Broncos and Browns the target in the top 5. Both 2018 1st's 1 of our 2018 2nd's 2019 1st Tyrod Taylor Edited January 15, 2018 by TheTruthHurts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 The Eagles WR unit needed to be upgraded, so did the Rams but that was about it. The Eagles were set at OL, TE, DL, LB, Safety, maybe needed some CB help but they drafted Sydney Jones and then made the trade for Darby. Their HB's were not bad but they could have upgraded the position and they did this year with Blount and a trade for Ajiyi. So their roster was actually pretty set in a lot of areas. The Rams were similar. They had good pieces on defense, they had Gurley, the TE position was set, for the most part the OL was set. They needed WR's though. So to me teams that do that they don't necessarily have holes but more of we can upgrade this position. We have holes until we know what the FA moves will be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM57 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, ddaryl said: IMO you don't need the combine to determine if they are worth it. Game tape tells the tale.. Any team who draft a player based upon combine numbers could be drafting a Maybin type of player. as for the Bills if they have that much faith in a QB to move up you make the move because a franchise QB is THE game changer in this league I don't think the combine physical testing really moves anyone in the eyes of teams anymore. The media might move guys based on numbers but the teams ready know what they think of the guys physically. It's the interviews that can change where a player stands. For example, if say, Josh Allen gets interviewed and can't read defensive keys to save his life, he's not getting picked high. But if he has a good interview and shows he has high football IQ, it's going to solidify his standing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTheTrust Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, TheTruthHurts said: Broncos and Browns the target in the top 5. Both 2018 1st's 1 of our 2018 2nd's 2019 1st Tyrod Taylor What about the Colts at #3? Obviously we miss out on Darnold and Rosen top 2, but if we really have our sights set on Mayfield or Allen, I'm guessing the Colts would love a basket of picks to re-tool? 2 minutes ago, NewEraBills said: The Eagles WR unit needed to be upgraded, so did the Rams but that was about it. The Eagles were set at OL, TE, DL, LB, Safety, maybe needed some CB help but they drafted Sydney Jones and then made the trade for Darby. Their HB's were not bad but they could have upgraded the position and they did this year with Blount and a trade for Ajiyi. So their roster was actually pretty set in a lot of areas. The Rams were similar. They had good pieces on defense, they had Gurley, the TE position was set, for the most part the OL was set. They needed WR's though. So to me teams that do that they don't necessarily have holes but more of we can upgrade this position. We have holes until we know what the FA moves will be. I hear ya, there's no telling exactly who will be out there, but maybe I'm being naïve - I just assume every FA year you will have a bunch of guys out there and you're lucky if you snag your top choices...and then your scouting team proves their worth as you find some unexpected gems to play big roles. It wouldn't detract from the idea that if you want your guy, and you believe you can get him, what's the price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadonkadonk Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Worked great for Washington getting RG3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTheTrust Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, Dadonkadonk said: Worked great for Washington getting RG3 True. That's fair. 7 years ago is recent enough to count, but I'm blinded by the 2/2 HRs 2 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, ProcessTheTrust said: What about the Colts at #3? Obviously we miss out on Darnold and Rosen top 2, but if we really have our sights set on Mayfield or Allen, I'm guessing the Colts would love a basket of picks to re-tool? I hear ya, there's no telling exactly who will be out there, but maybe I'm being naïve - I just assume every FA year you will have a bunch of guys out there and you're lucky if you snag your top choices...and then your scouting team proves their worth as you find some unexpected gems to play big roles. It wouldn't detract from the idea that if you want your guy, and you believe you can get him, what's the price? I think #1 could be in play. Browns may go Allen at 4. Bills draft Sam Darnold #1 overall. You heard it here first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 14 minutes ago, ProcessTheTrust said: I understand the fears of trading away the farm to get our QB when we have so many other immediate needs. However, watching the Rams and Eagles this year, I can't help but remember how almost everyone laughed at them in 2016 when they paid the following to go get their QBs for the next decade or so: Rams - Gave: 2016 1st, 2 2nds, 3rd, 2017 1st, 3rd Received: 2016 1st overall pick, 4th, 6th Eagles - Gave: 2016 1st, 3rd, 4th, 2017 1st, 2018 2nd Received: 2016 2nd overall pick and a 2017 4th I'm not saying we should make such a dramatic move just because it worked for both the Rams and Eagles so quickly. I'm asking - if Darnold and Rosen come out of the combine with projections of being "the guy" worthy, how much would you be willing to give away to go get them? You left out a lot of information here. It's not just the round but where the pick is. That is huge, especially considering where we are trying to trade up from. Those teams started a lot higher than we are starting. It will take even more in my opinion. Maybe 2018 1,1,2,3 and 2019 1,2,4. You must consider all of the other QB needy teams that will want to try to move up too. We will see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, ProcessTheTrust said: What about the Colts at #3? Obviously we miss out on Darnold and Rosen top 2, but if we really have our sights set on Mayfield or Allen, I'm guessing the Colts would love a basket of picks to re-tool? I hear ya, there's no telling exactly who will be out there, but maybe I'm being naïve - I just assume every FA year you will have a bunch of guys out there and you're lucky if you snag your top choices...and then your scouting team proves their worth as you find some unexpected gems to play big roles. It wouldn't detract from the idea that if you want your guy, and you believe you can get him, what's the price? To me, it kinda does actually because if you sign a FA QB, who then becomes your guy? Are you swinging for the fences or are you content with grooming someone? So to me, there is a direct connection to what the Bills do via FA and what they'll do in the draft. Secondly, the issue is WHO is that guy? And who is willing to trade with us? Just because we have capital doesn't mean a team like the Giants, Broncos, Colts want to trade. Hell, the guy we covet might be their guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, TheTruthHurts said: I think #1 could be in play. Browns may go Allen at 4. Bills draft Sam Darnold #1 overall. You heard it here first. Josh Allen may not make it past 3 if the Colts trade out. That'd be a risky move by the Browns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dadonkadonk said: Worked great for Washington getting RG3 It did actually, for a year anyways. They screwed him up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTheTrust Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, TheTruthHurts said: I think #1 could be in play. Browns may go Allen at 4. Bills draft Sam Darnold #1 overall. You heard it here first. I'm not 100% sold they will move up that high, but I'm very sure that if they feel they know they have their guy, and it's someone they fear won't make it past the top 10-15, they will move up and get him. Hearing Beane talk about a QB being the priority, and having us make the playoffs essentially a year earlier than expected - they have the "grace" if you will to make a bold move to bring home our guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I believe Darnold and Rosen will be selected at 1 and 2 by the Browns and Giants who both need Franchise Signal Callers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, Buffalo30 said: Josh Allen may not make it past 3 if the Colts trade out. That'd be a risky move by the Browns Yeah , the draft is a game. 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: I believe Darnold and Rosen will be selected at 1 and 2 by the Browns and Giants who both need Franchise Signal Callers. Allen will be in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: I believe Darnold and Rosen will be selected at 1 and 2 by the Browns and Giants who both need Franchise Signal Callers. And after those two I'm not willing to move up into the top 5 for the rest. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTheTrust Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, NewEraBills said: To me, it kinda does actually because if you sign a FA QB, who then becomes your guy? Are you swinging for the fences or are you content with grooming someone? So to me, there is a direct connection to what the Bills do via FA and what they'll do in the draft. Secondly, the issue is WHO is that guy? And who is willing to trade with us? Just because we have capital doesn't mean a team like the Giants, Broncos, Colts want to trade. Hell, the guy we covet might be their guy. Let's look at the examples in question. How did they use as their "bridge" guys? Eagles planned on Bradford. Obviously we know what happened. Minny was desperate, and Wentz proved he was a day 1 ready guy. Nice way to get some picks back! Rams went with Keenum. Didn't work out but it gave Goff a chance to get in earlier than expected, take his lumps, and come out with that valuable experience to step in as the guy year 2. So who is our guy? TT? Bradford? Some other random back up journeyman? Sure...whatever...as long as you know that you know that you know you have your QB of the future in the oven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 18 minutes ago, ddaryl said: IMO you don't need the combine to determine if they are worth it. Game tape tells the tale.. Any team who draft a player based upon combine numbers could be drafting a Maybin type of player. as for the Bills if they have that much faith in a QB to move up you make the move because a franchise QB is THE game changer in this league Agree, If every GM went by Brady's combine numbers he never would've been drafted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTheTrust Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, billsbackto81 said: Agree, If every GM went by Brady's combine numbers he never would've been drafted. We all know Brady "broke" all our rules on this stuff but unfortunately, he's not an example we can follow. He's just not human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Been hearing that the Giants may not draft a QB at #2 because the new regime is OK with Manning for now. If that is the case, and if OBD likes a guy bound to be there, then they should move whatever has to be moved to get there and draft him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 16 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: Broncos and Browns the target in the top 5. Both 2018 1st's 1 of our 2018 2nd's 2019 1st Tyrod Taylor I think broncos get a QB for sure. I think Browns at 4 may be the spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, JohnBonhamRocks said: Been hearing that the Giants may not draft a QB at #2 because the new regime is OK with Manning for now. If that is the case, and if OBD likes a guy bound to be there, then they should move whatever has to be moved to get there and draft him. Yeah but are they OK with Manning as a bridge or just OK with Manning as their guy? I see the Giants as, New GM, New Coaching Regime, they are getting their new QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTheTrust Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, JohnBonhamRocks said: Been hearing that the Giants may not draft a QB at #2 because the new regime is OK with Manning for now. If that is the case, and if OBD likes a guy bound to be there, then they should move whatever has to be moved to get there and draft him. I was wondering about that. We all assumed Eli was history after that benching nonsense but with a new coach, OBJ coming back, maybe they see the value in trading out for a ton of picks to go for a SB run again with Eli. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, JohnBonhamRocks said: Been hearing that the Giants may not draft a QB at #2 because the new regime is OK with Manning for now. If that is the case, and if OBD likes a guy bound to be there, then they should move whatever has to be moved to get there and draft him. Yeah, they may hold off on a franchise guy, draft a 2nd or 3rd round project. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, billsfan11 said: I think broncos get a QB for sure. I think Browns at 4 may be the spot It depends on who the Browns covet. If they take a QB at 1 and covet Sequon Barkely or Minkah Fitzpatrick, they are taking that guy at 4. They won't trade the pick. Too many variables on who teams might covet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTheTrust Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, NewEraBills said: Yeah but are they OK with Manning as a bridge or just OK with Manning as their guy? I see the Giants as, New GM, New Coaching Regime, they are getting their new QB. This would be a great year to make that move. However, much like us, maybe they see all their holes, know they still have a franchise QB for another year or 2, and make the move to plug the holes, maybe swing on a 2nd round QB, or just wait till next year altogether? It's gonna be a fun offseason! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I suppose the first question is who is our guy? And then subsequently, where do you believe we will need to get to in order to select him? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTheTrust Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said: I suppose the first question is who is our guy? And then subsequently, where do you believe we will need to get to in order to select him? Exactly. I don't have those answers. I'm just sparking the convo, mostly a reminder for those who maybe forgot exactly how much the Rams and Eagles paid to move up to the top 2 just 2 years ago. I'm seeing many/most fans just dismissing the idea of trading up altogether. Maybe. I just don't see Beane as the type to be afraid to make the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, ProcessTheTrust said: Let's look at the examples in question. How did they use as their "bridge" guys? Eagles planned on Bradford. Obviously we know what happened. Minny was desperate, and Wentz proved he was a day 1 ready guy. Nice way to get some picks back! Rams went with Keenum. Didn't work out but it gave Goff a chance to get in earlier than expected, take his lumps, and come out with that valuable experience to step in as the guy year 2. So who is our guy? TT? Bradford? Some other random back up journeyman? Sure...whatever...as long as you know that you know that you know you have your QB of the future in the oven. Here is the thing about that year though. The Browns were in a rebuild mode so they would sell the #1 pick to whoever was offering the most. The Titans already had their QB and were trying to also bolster the roster. So those teams were willing to sell because they were trying to put a roster together. You would think the Browns with their need for a Franchise QB would have taken one, but they didn't. They wanted to build the roster knowing that they will probably be in this situation again and they were but with more picks. You have to have teams in the right position. I'm contending that this is not the case for us. The teams at the top are this go around are taking the QB's. We are on the outside looking in and most likely will not have a trade partner for Rosen or Darnald and after those two I just wouldn't even think about moving up for the other guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acattack15 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Gotta see where Cousins signs.... Thats a big domino that needs to fall before you have any clarity on the draft. It would eliminate a team from QB lottery in draft , potentially a top 5 team and also make them a prime trade partner (my guess is Denver pulls trigger on Cousins to a big multi year deal). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, NewEraBills said: It depends on who the Browns covet. If they take a QB at 1 and covet Sequon Barkely or Minkah Fitzpatrick, they are taking that guy at 4. They won't trade the pick. Too many variables on who teams might covet. Ya makes sense. I am just predicting the Browns will take a QB at 1, and will trade the 4 pick for a ton. I believe a team will over pay big time because of the prime spot they sit at 4, combined with it being a deep class at QB. Who knows though, like you said there are lots of variables Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, ProcessTheTrust said: This would be a great year to make that move. However, much like us, maybe they see all their holes, know they still have a franchise QB for another year or 2, and make the move to plug the holes, maybe swing on a 2nd round QB, or just wait till next year altogether? It's gonna be a fun offseason! Outside of OL, what holes do they really have? They are set at WR, TE. The defense is set except for linebacker and they can take an OL or LB in round 2/3 or vice versa. They are taking the QB man. Just now, Acattack15 said: Gotta see where Cousins signs.... Thats a big domino that needs to fall before you have any clarity on the draft. It would eliminate a team from QB lottery in draft , potentially a top 5 team and also make them a prime trade partner (my guess is Denver pulls trigger on Cousins to a big multi year deal). This is important for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, NewEraBills said: Yeah but are they OK with Manning as a bridge or just OK with Manning as their guy? I see the Giants as, New GM, New Coaching Regime, they are getting their new QB. Obviously nothing set in stone, but I just remember seeing or hearing a report saying they like Manning enough that they'll likely look to fill other holes this year. No link or anything, just from my memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTheTrust Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, NewEraBills said: Here is the thing about that year though. The Browns were in a rebuild mode so they would sell the #1 pick to whoever was offering the most. The Titans already had their QB and were trying to also bolster the roster. So those teams were willing to sell because they were trying to put a roster together. You would think the Browns with their need for a Franchise QB would have taken one, but they didn't. They wanted to build the roster knowing that they will probably be in this situation again and they were but with more picks. You have to have teams in the right position. I'm contending that this is not the case for us. The teams at the top are this go around are taking the QB's. We are on the outside looking in and most likely will not have a trade partner for Rosen or Darnald and after those two I just wouldn't even think about moving up for the other guys. I agree that the Browns are not gonna budge. Someone else here proposed they might like Allen enough to trade back and take him but I think they are going all in with Darnold. However, I'm not convinced the Giants are done with Eli...not as much as I thought before McAdoo was canned. Yes, this would be the perfect year to get his replacement, but that depends on what the new regime really wants to do. They may see the value in trading out to pick up a ton of picks to equip them for another SB run with Eli and wait on the QB. And then there's the Colts at #3. All depends on if another QB emerges to be worth a pick that high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, billsfan11 said: Ya makes sense. I am just predicting the Browns will take a QB at 1, and will trade the 4 pick for a ton. I believe a team will over pay big time because of the prime spot they sit at 4, combined with it being a deep class at QB. Who knows though, like you said there are lots of variables Here's the way I see the Browns. They get a QB, a CB and another HB and they are in prime position to finally make their stand in the North. The Ravens are stuck in the middle of the road. The Bengals are underachievers. The Browns get their QB and a workhouse HB and they are all of a sudden in prime position to do damage in the AFC North. If you are the Browns are you trading picks? I wouldn't. It's my time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTheTrust Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, NewEraBills said: Outside of OL, what holes do they really have? They are set at WR, TE. The defense is set except for linebacker and they can take an OL or LB in round 2/3 or vice versa. They are taking the QB man. This is important for sure. I concede to your knowledge on this one, I only watched a couple NYG games. I assumed based on their position they had some significant needs. If they are sold on Rosen for their future, then sure, it's all set. But I guess I would apply the same logic you use waiting for the FA moves to finalize any projections to apply to waiting for their new regime to assess what they really want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 14 minutes ago, ProcessTheTrust said: I was wondering about that. We all assumed Eli was history after that benching nonsense but with a new coach, OBJ coming back, maybe they see the value in trading out for a ton of picks to go for a SB run again with Eli. 13 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: Yeah, they may hold off on a franchise guy, draft a 2nd or 3rd round project. I honestly forget where I heard or read it, but the long-and-short of it was that their new regime likes Manning and Webb for now enough to do just that. I sure hope so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts