Royale with Cheese Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: That was pretty much the kind of thing that was said all the time in the first 4-5 years of Smith's career. He's developed into enough of a downfield passer at this point in his career that it's not said now, but the fan is right on. And bear in mind he is playing for Andy Reid, who has tailored the offense to him. This is why I am not thrilled with the notion of acquiring Smith. Smith is obviously not a long term answer but if we draft a QB in the first this year, Smith at least allows you to remain competitive in the playoff race and not taking a step back with a rookie. He's a better stop gap than Taylor IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said: Difference is you’re upset about losing your playoff game knowing you basically will have to go with a rookie QB next year and hope it works. Where Bills fans know this team overachieved after stripping it and it’s only gonna get better, not only that but to replace Tyrod with an Alex Smith or Case Keenum etc we are sitting nice. You are looking at KC and spotlighting one individual for your playoff loss and comparing it to Tyrod and Buffalo. But Buffalo wasn’t even supposed to win but 4 games this year and we made it. It’s apples and oranges, most fans will be more than happy to take Alex Smith off your hands. Cause KCs problem is more than Alex. Of course we have problems more than Alex. We have Alex and lost at home to the Titans after leading by 18 at halftime. Our defense is pretty slow and old at key places, not to mention our cap issues causing a lack of decent roster depth. That said...we have plenty enough talent to go farther if not limited at the QB spot. Wanting to move on from Smith to Mahomes isn't the same as choosing to go back to being 2-14 again....Smith only gets you so far...for the reasons I have explained above. He isn't a bad player..his quite good..but that's it...good. See the videos I posted here...this is TYPICAL. You can win a lot of games with Smith at QB...he just isn't quite equal to big moments and you can tell he plays with his main priority being not to make a mistake....it's a detriment for a player with his talent...because again...as I said, when he actually stays in a pocket, makes a read..sets and throws..Smith has NFL talent...he can and does throw a beautiful NFL pass. The problem is that he bails if you so much as fart in his direction when he's back there...he's got to have a spacious pocket that he can stand in and see all the rushers to his front. He will be a WONDERFUL bridge player for whoever gets him....I am just telling you fine Bills fans, that is all he is. He is missing the pocket pressence that would put him up there with a Brees, brady, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: I think the first thing that sticks out to me is KC's defense seems to have regressed every year since 2014. They used to be elite. I don't watch KC much so I really can't go any deeper than that. The loss of Berry, while not the only thing, really seemed to effect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Smith is obviously not a long term answer but if we draft a QB in the first this year, Smith at least allows you to remain competitive in the playoff race and not taking a step back with a rookie. He's a better stop gap than Taylor IMO. He is a better QB than Taylor, no question. The problem is, if we trade for Smith, are we using the picks that would help us draft the QB we want? Or upgrade at other positions? I'm concerned it's a case of either-or, not both. Edit: as Whitewalker points out, it's also not a case of paying Smith $17M vs Taylor $16M. It's paying Smith $17M plus TT's $8.64M dead money hit. 50 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: Of course we have problems more than Alex. We have Alex and lost at home to the Titans after leading by 18 at halftime. Our defense is pretty slow and old at key places, not to mention our cap issues causing a lack of decent roster depth. That said...we have plenty enough talent to go farther if not limited at the QB spot. Wanting to move on from Smith to Mahomes isn't the same as choosing to go back to being 2-14 again....Smith only gets you so far...for the reasons I have explained above. He isn't a bad player..his quite good..but that's it...good. See the videos I posted here...this is TYPICAL. You can win a lot of games with Smith at QB...he just isn't quite equal to big moments and you can tell he plays with his main priority being not to make a mistake....it's a detriment for a player with his talent...because again...as I said, when he actually stays in a pocket, makes a read..sets and throws..Smith has NFL talent...he can and does throw a beautiful NFL pass. The problem is that he bails if you so much as fart in his direction when he's back there...he's got to have a spacious pocket that he can stand in and see all the rushers to his front. He will be a WONDERFUL bridge player for whoever gets him....I am just telling you fine Bills fans, that is all he is. He is missing the pocket pressence that would put him up there with a Brees, brady, etc. Tell me about your WR and how Smith uses them. From here, the game seemed to fall apart as soon as Kelce went out. Edited January 9, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said: The loss of Berry, while not the only thing, really seemed to effect them. Loss of Berry and I think they also took a step back in rushing the passer too right? Houston and Hali were a great combo but now Hali is getting old and has been battling injuries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeginnersMind Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) I'm fine if they sign Smith but keep in mind Smith had: - one of the best WRs in the league - the best TE in the league - one of the best RBs in the league - one of the best offensive game planners coaching him - a pass first offense In Buffalo, Smith will have - a decent #1 WR if they resign KB (I assume they will let Matthews go) - a decent TE - a great RB - a journeyman OC Smith will be an upgrade over Taylor for sure. Worth a 4th rounder. Maybe a third but not more than that. Interesting article on recent QB trades here. Looking at history, probably will need a second to make the deal happen. Not sure if that's worth it. Edited January 9, 2018 by BeginnersMind 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEN-CAL17 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Again. I repeat now yet again: Do people understand the cost of bringing in Smith and dumping Taylor? Financial cost. Asset cost. Because it is impossible under the rules to simply swap one for the other without consequences. As for the bolded points: One, it was that USA today shill who predicted four wins. Few in national media have looked dumb by picking on the Bills the last decade. Even if we beat expectations by numerous wins, they could always fall back and say "Well, they didn't make the playoffs, did they?' Two: Again, I ask you what are Kansas City's problems other than Alex Smith. I will again reference you to a list of greater or equal NFL starters. Tell me what they are (other than the obvious Andy Reid problem). I'm waiting. McDermott is what got this team to 9 wins. He created a locker room that fought hard as Under dogs every week. Tyrods minimal 100 yd games weren’t the difference maker. Bills were the only team with zero completions over 50 yards. KC has jerkoffs like Marcus Peters, seems like a me guy. Bills don’t have that. When KC was up big last week why didn’t the pound the Ball? That was an issue. If you couldn’t, then that is an issue. Eric Berry out, Revis is a joke... there’s tons of reasons it seems to be KCs problem other than Smith. As far as Finances... Tyrod is set to make $18M next year with a $6M roster bonus March 1. Ain’t gonna happen. I’d give Smith $18M per for the next 3 years any day! Edited January 9, 2018 by 1ZAYDAY1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) We need a vet because any rookie we draft will probably not be ready for game 1. I like the idea of Smith as our vet. Smith requires a trade and not sure how much we shoudl give up... I wouldn't give up anythign in the 1st rd of course.. Maybe late 2nd if we believe he can get us back to the playoffs. If he can than its worth our late 2nd as long as we can still draft a QB and shore up the OL DL and LB positions to boot Edited January 9, 2018 by ddaryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: He is a better QB than Taylor, no question. The problem is, if we trade for Smith, are we using the picks that would help us draft the QB we want? Or upgrade at other positions? I'm concerned it's a case of either-or, not both. Tell me about your WR and how Smith uses them. From here, the game seemed to fall apart as soon as Kelce went out. Do you think we could get Smith for a 3rd? I don't think we package a monster deal. I think it could be a KC situation like last year from 27 to 10. It was a 1st and 3rd rounder. I think that's what we do if we see someone we really like at around 8-12. Is there anyone that's going to be there worth taking? Outside of Rosen and Darnold....I don't know if there's a QB worth trading up for. Maybe Mayfield is there at 21? I'm not even sure McDermott would want that personality in the locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEN-CAL17 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ddaryl said: We need a vet because a rookie we draft will be ready for game 1 more than likely. I like the idea of Smith Smith requires a trade and not sure how much we shoudl give up... I wouldn't give up anythign in the 1st rd of course.. Maybe late 2nd if we believe he can get us back to the playoffs. If he can than its worth our late 2nd as long as we can still draft a QB and shore up the OL DL and LB positions to boot Probably a 2018 2nd and a 2019 3rd..... But Maybe ‘18&’19 2nd rd picks at worst. Honestly I think a 2nd and a 5th this year Smith could be had.... Alex Smith has value for sure. KC might try for a first and no one is gonna give a team a 1st for a 34 yr old QB. Our late 2nd and 5th could do it, or be super enticing. Edited January 9, 2018 by 1ZAYDAY1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: He is a better QB than Taylor, no question. The problem is, if we trade for Smith, are we using the picks that would help us draft the QB we want? Or upgrade at other positions? I'm concerned it's a case of either-or, not both. Tell me about your WR and how Smith uses them. From here, the game seemed to fall apart as soon as Kelce went out. Two years ago, the Cheifs didn't have a WR catch a TD pass for the entire season. Granted we didn't have any particulary good WR, but that's hard to do in a leauge set up to encouarage passing. ....Now, also understand we have had Tyreek Hill for two seasons. Hill makes Smith look pretty good in that in the past when Smith has attempted to go downfield, he almost always overthrew the target....putting the ball where either the WR will get it or no one will...and no one usually did....Hill is damn near impossible to overthrow..incredible speed. Smith's been able to hit him on some long throws because he is open downfield. Otherwise, Smith/Andy Reid love the WR bubble screen....run that play several times a game...most of the WR completions are that play or otherwise very short stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said: As far as Finances... Tyrod is set to make $18M next year with a $6M roster bonus March 1. Ain’t gonna happen. I’d give Smith $18M per for the next 3 years any day! Tyrod's 2018 cap hit is $16M per spotrac. Trading for Smith would involve the loss of a draft pick, likely a day 2 pick. Based on Smith's contract, we would owe him $17M this year plus we'd have $8.64M Dead cap from Tyrod. 2018 also appears to be the last year on Smith's current deal, so if he didn't want to be here he could play the year and leave and our 2018 QB cap hit would be over $25M. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) “Doesn’t make a key play when it matters most” ??♂️??♂️??♂️ Edited January 9, 2018 by Teddy KGB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said: McDermott is what got this team to 9 wins. He created a locker room that fought hard as Under dogs every week. Tyrods minimal 100 yd games weren’t the difference maker. Bills were the only team with zero completions over 50 yards. KC has jerkoffs like Marcus Peters, seems like a me guy. Bills don’t have that. When KC was up big last week why didn’t the pound the Ball? That was an issue. If you couldn’t, then that is an issue. Eric Berry out, Revis is a joke... there’s tons of reasons it seems to be KCs problem other than Smith. As far as Finances... Tyrod is set to make $18M next year with a $6M roster bonus March 1. Ain’t gonna happen. I’d give Smith $18M per for the next 3 years any day! Oh god no! Having a diva Pro Bowl CB, the lack of a safety they haven't had most of the year and still won of the division and a coach who's entire hallmark is not running the ball when he should? Lol, you are ridiculous. and it's not JUST the Taylor money, it's paying Smith AND the money for dumping Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: Two years ago, the Cheifs didn't have a WR catch a TD pass for the entire season. Granted we didn't have any particulary good WR, but that's hard to do in a leauge set up to encouarage passing. ....Now, also understand we have had Tyreek Hill for two seasons. Hill makes Smith look pretty good in that in the past when Smith has attempted to go downfield, he almost always overthrew the target....putting the ball where either the WR will get it or no one will...and no one usually did....Hill is damn near impossible to overthrow..incredible speed. Smith's been able to hit him on some long throws because he is open downfield. Otherwise, Smith/Andy Reid love the WR bubble screen....run that play several times a game...most of the WR completions are that play or otherwise very short stuff. That jibs with my memory, thanks. We had the same problem with TT this year: we had some incredibly fast guys who could run under anything TT threw, and we let them walk/traded them. Stubbornly, our OC seems to refuse to pull the screen and play action TT excels at out of his playbook and put them in his game plan. These factors both concern me that if we bring in Smith, who I agree is a much better QB than TT at this point in his career, we won't get the most out of him. We don't have a burner WR with steady hands or a reliably healthy big TE target, and we appear to have a WCO OC who refuses to suit his game plan to his personnel. Edited January 9, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racketmaster Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 If smith was available for a 6th or 7th, I would consider it. He is a bridge qb and nothing more. I don’t want to give up any serious assets for that. If Bills did get him, fans will be complaining how conservative he is and how he rarely throws the ball downfield. Also, be careful of comparing this year’s stats to Tyrod. Smith had Hill, Kelce and Hunt. Young talent and exposive players. Tyrod had McCoy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: “Won’t” make plays ? ??♂️??♂️??♂️ You do realize that from 3 years of film, I could pull some similar moments on TT. You do realize that, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: “Won’t” make plays ? ??♂️??♂️??♂️ Again...not trying to tell you he' awful....this pass IS the pinaccle of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEN-CAL17 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Tyrod's 2018 cap hit is $16M per spotrac. Trading for Smith would involve the loss of a draft pick, likely a day 2 pick. Based on Smith's contract, we would owe him $17M this year plus we'd have $8.64M Dead cap from Tyrod. 2018 also appears to be the last year on Smith's current deal, so if he didn't want to be here he could play the year and leave and our 2018 QB cap hit would be over $25M. Is that Dead cap after March 1... or just if we don’t resign him? either way no way Tyrod is on this team. I love my Bills but I’ll sit back and wait til he’s gone, cause he just can’t do it. I still take Smith for 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Zerovotlz said: Again...not trying to tell you he' awful....this pass IS the pinaccle of his career. He won the nfl title game the following week then lost 34-31 in the sb. If kelce didnt get smoked and Reid went Reid again idk if this talk is happening. I get your point, but I’m not buying all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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