Shaw66 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 3 hours ago, Steptide said: It's going to get to a point where if you look at an attractive woman it's gonna be sexual harassment I'm reporting you for saying that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, dpberr said: You mean pedophile teachers, right? The ones who get with students, yes. Although I'm quite sure the male students don't have a problem with it most times. But teachers in general are freaks...I think it has to do with having so many rules in place they have to follow that in their personal lives they "let loose" almost as a way to counter balance it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Bolding mine. Again, this is an admission, as much as you might not like it to be, that your area of expertise is in enforcement. Your talking about offender behaviors. This is an exceptionally prejudicial lens to demand we view the discussion through. I'll stop short of being dismissive, because there is value there; but your discipline lends itself far more towards patholization than anything else. 3 Precisely my point. I am not talking about hitting on a woman for a date, or any other legitimate advances for sexual or other reasons that do not cross the line into inappropriate behaviors. And, if we really have to define what is appropriate or inappropriate, then I don't know what else to say.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 The weirdest part to me is that she alleges her office was in the men's bathroom. That is something easily proven false so I am guessing that part at least is true. And that's so incredibly bizarre I can't wrap my brain around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, billsfan1959 said: Precisely my point. I am not talking about hitting on a woman for a date, or any other legitimate advances for sexual or other reasons that do not cross the line into inappropriate behaviors. And, if we really have to define what is appropriate or inappropriate, then I don't know what else to say.... The problem is that apropriate or inappropriate all too often depends on how attractive a woman finds you. Thats the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, matter2003 said: But teachers in general are freaks...I think it has to do with having so many rules in place they have to follow that in their personal lives they "let loose" almost as a way to counter balance it. Really? And how many teachers do you know to make a sweeping judgment about what they are like "in general". 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: The weirdest part to me is that she alleges her office was in the men's bathroom. That is something easily proven false so I am guessing that part at least is true. And that's so incredibly bizarre I can't wrap my brain around it. And probably gives you a very clear indication that was a culture in the organisation that was unhealthy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bomb Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 14 minutes ago, PolishDave said: How can you possibly not understand basic human nature then? You must understand. Most people don't think for themselves when it comes to politics. They vote like mom or dad did - and very often fall victim to people telling them what they want to hear - in other words - manipulated. When you do decide for yourself who to vote for, you quickly realize there is no one to vote for... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) Just now, GunnerBill said: Really? And how many teachers do you know to make a sweeping judgment about what they are like "in general". I've dated quite a few of them and have heard numerous stories... Why do you think the people that keep getting caught in the Bills bathrooms at the stadium having sex are teachers? Edited December 12, 2017 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bomb Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 16 minutes ago, matter2003 said: When i used to date I used to LOVE when I found out a girl I just started talking to was a nurse...hahaha Problem with nurses is the majority of them are fat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, matter2003 said: I've dated quite a few of them and have heard numerous stories... Why do you think the people that keep getting caught in the Bills bathrooms at the stadium having sex are teachers? I am sorry if I don't accept your circumstantial anecdotes as proof of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, matter2003 said: The problem is that apropriate or inappropriate all too often depends on how attractive a woman finds you. Thats the problem. No, appropriate or inappropriate rests entirely on your behavior... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, billsfan1959 said: No, appropriate or inappropriate rests entirely on your behavior... Correct. This should not really be difficult to grasp. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: No, appropriate or inappropriate rests entirely on your behavior... Right...so if the women finds you attractive enough she'll be in the bathroom stall on her knees 5 minutes later, but if she thinks you are ugly then its sexual harrassment. Exactly how does that depend on my behavior? Ever watch those online videos that show a random woman's reaction to a guy walking up and saying the same thing to her---one an ugly guy and one a hot guy within a few minutes of each other? Or those onine dating studies where they post two separate profiles, one a hot guy and one an ugly guy and have them message the same sexually related first message to a woman and get a completely different response? I think maybe you should get some real-world experience and get out of text books and theories. Edited December 12, 2017 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 hour ago, joesixpack said: I have a sure-fire two-step method for avoiding this kind of situation: 1) Keep your hands to yourself at all times. 2) Be anti-social with all co-workers. No idle chit-chat, nothing. Someone says hi, say hi and keep walking. That keeps you above reproach and out of the clutches of feminist crazies. This will work, but man, what a dull work place this would be. Another step, and I've seen this done, is not to hire attractive women. This was an unofficial policy, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, Happy Gilmore said: This will work, but man, what a dull work place this would be. Another step, and I've seen this done, is not to hire attractive women. This was an unofficial policy, of course. Work isn't supposed to be exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Precisely my point. I am not talking about hitting on a woman for a date, or any other legitimate advances for sexual or other reasons that do not cross the line into inappropriate behaviors. And, if we really have to define what is appropriate or inappropriate, then I don't know what else to say.... We absolutely do have to define what is appropriate and what is inappropriate, because that's what the issue is about. And you don't get to make fiat declarations for the entire species about that those actually are. There is a discussion which needs to be had about exactly this, and the discussion needs to be inclusive of either the established legitimacy or illegitimacy of sexuality as transactional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, matter2003 said: Right...so if the women finds you attractive enough she'll be in the bathroom stall on her knees 5 minutes later, but if she thinks you are ugly then its sexual harrassment. Exactly how does that depend on my behavior? I think this post provides all the insight one needs into your thought processes. Not particularly what we might call a "higher level of consciousness." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, TakeYouToTasker said: We absolutely do have to define what is appropriate and what is inappropriate, because that's what the issue is about. And you don't get to make fiat declarations for the entire species about that those actually are. There is a discussion which needs to be had about exactly this, and the discussion needs to be inclusive of either the established legitimacy or illegitimacy of sexuality as transactional. I actually agree that what is appropriate and what is inappropriate is not an absolute. As I alluded to earlier - there is a level of flirting and sexual "banter" short of unwanted physical contact that I would consider appropriate in a bar or (to use the example above) on a dating app that I would consider entirely inappropriate in a work environment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, billsfan1959 said: I think this post provides all the insight one needs into your thought processes. Not particularly what we might call a "higher level of consciousness." I think your actual interactions with women in real life are what need to be called into question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasovon Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 The way i see it any sexual behaviour is inappropriate in a work environment unless you work in the sex industry. You are not paid to pick up women. Also consent is king, women are not robots and can make their own choices. There are some opinions in this thread that are truly worrying, we are not animals we are intelligent enough to rise above "animal urges" it's why we have a crime against killing someone to take their stuff. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, Jasovon said: The way i see it any sexual behaviour is inappropriate in a work environment unless you work in the sex industry. You are not paid to pick up women. Also consent is king, women are not robots and can make their own choices. There are some opinions in this thread that are truly worrying, we are not animals we are intelligent enough to rise above "animal urges" it's why we have a crime against killing someone to take their stuff. Except the problem lies in a woman can consent in the moment and then wish she hadn't a week later due to regret, etc and then now it becomes a whole new situation if she goes to the police...how many times have we seen this play out? Or nowadays, 15 or 20 years later. Edited December 12, 2017 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: We absolutely do have to define what is appropriate and what is inappropriate, because that's what the issue is about. And you don't get to make fiat declarations for the entire species about that those actually are. There is a discussion which needs to be had about exactly this, and the discussion needs to be inclusive of either the established legitimacy or illegitimacy of sexuality as transactional. That is not what the issue is about - that is what you want the issue to be about. You can talk all you want about the biological imperatives of male sexual behavior. What separates you from animals is the ability to reason - to understand what is appropriate or inappropriate in any give situation - and moderate your own behaviors accordingly 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jasovon said: The way i see it any sexual behaviour is inappropriate in a work environment unless you work in the sex industry. You are not paid to pick up women. This. x1000. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasovon Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, matter2003 said: Except the problem lies in a woman can consent in the moment and then wish she hadn't a week later due to regret, etc and then now it becomes a whole new situation if she goes to the police...how many times have we seen this play out? I don't know but i do know it is a tiny number compared to how many times two people get it on and neither side presses charges. The problem with anecdotal evidence is that it is not representative of the whole picture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: That is not what the issue is about - that is what you want the issue to be about. You can talk all you want about the biological imperatives of male sexual behavior. What separates you from animals is the ability to reason - to understand what is appropriate or inappropriate in any give situation - and moderate your own behaviors accordingly True to an extent but I think you fail to realize just how strongly hormones can exert their will over what your "thoughts" are at any given time and to a large extent your logic and reasoning. Edited December 12, 2017 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, Jasovon said: I don't know but i do know it is a tiny number compared to how many times two people get it on and neither side presses charges. The problem with anecdotal evidence is that it is not representative of the whole picture. It seems we are in the anecdote > evidence age sadly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, matter2003 said: I think your actual interactions with women in real life are what need to be called into question. None of which have ever involved inappropriate sexual behavior, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: I actually agree that what is appropriate and what is inappropriate is not an absolute. As I alluded to earlier - there is a level of flirting and sexual "banter" short of unwanted physical contact that I would consider appropriate in a bar or (to use the example above) on a dating app that I would consider entirely inappropriate in a work environment. We spend more time socializing at work than we do anywhere else, and spend more time with our co-workers. Normal human interaction doesn't go away. Workplace behavioral standards are in place because in order to legally absolve businesses, not for any other reason. There is nothing wrong with sexually pursuing someone at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, GunnerBill said: It seems we are in the anecdote > evidence age sadly enough. Starting with unsubstantiated claims from 20 years ago against guys that are being treated as fact. Just now, billsfan1959 said: None of which have ever involved inappropriate sexual behavior, thank you. I've fixed that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasovon Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, billsfan1959 said: None of which have ever involved inappropriate sexual behavior, thank you. Which if i'm following the argument is because of your low testosterone level. Apparently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuelTime Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: No, appropriate or inappropriate rests entirely on your behavior... No, appropriate or inappropriate behavior is a matter of perspective. This is why women must sign a non-disclosure agreement before they can party with Shady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, TakeYouToTasker said: We spend more time socializing at work than we do anywhere else, and spend more time with our co-workers. Normal human interaction doesn't go away. Workplace behavioral standards are in place because in order to legally absolve businesses, not for any other reason. There is nothing wrong with sexually pursuing someone at work. I am sorry I totally, totally disagree. I am a professional. When I am at work I act professional. I don't curse, I don't "sexually pursue" (horrible phrase) people, I don't drink alcohol..... I don't do any number of things that are not appropriate in the work place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I am sorry I totally, totally disagree. I am a professional. When I am at work I act professional. I don't curse, I don't "sexually pursue" (horrible phrase) people, I don't drink alcohol..... I don't do any number of things that are not appropriate in the work place. Which is likely why you've never seen a woman act in the way I talked about earlier around you at the workplace...just saying. There is nothing wrong with that, but others tend to not display certain behaviors around certain people, so to speak. Edited December 12, 2017 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, matter2003 said: I've fixed that for you. Very impressive. Did you do that all on your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, matter2003 said: Which is likely why you've never seen a woman act in the way I talked about earlier around you at the workplace...just saying. Which is exactly how it should be! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) I think part of the problem is that individual women are given the power to decide what is and what isn't appropriate. There's no clear-cut standard. Which, again, is why i have a policy of total non-engagement with female coworkers. I am HIGHLY hesitant to allow a woman to make judgements about my behavior, so better to avoid the situation altogether. Edited December 12, 2017 by joesixpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, matter2003 said: how many times have we seen this play out? You tell me. What's a good example of that happening like you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, joesixpack said: I think part of the problem is that individual women are given the power to decide what is and what isn't appropriate. There's no clear-cut standard. Which, again, is why i have a policy of total non-engagement with female coworkers. I am HIGHLY hesitant to allow a woman to make judgements about my behavior. These days that is a recipe for jail time and financial ruin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, GunnerBill said: Which is exactly how it should be! Novel concept, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: That is not what the issue is about - that is what you want the issue to be about. You can talk all you want about the biological imperatives of male sexual behavior. What separates you from animals is the ability to reason - to understand what is appropriate or inappropriate in any give situation - and moderate your own behaviors accordingly Wrong. You aren't talking about the ability to reason. You're actually eschewing the ability to reason. Reasoning would encompass not seeking to build social institutions that run afoul of normal human behavior; seeking to prop up those institutions which would severely disadvantage half the population to the benefit of the other half is not reasonable. The fact that you're unwilling to have a conversation about what is normal behavior, instead seeking to impose your own viewpoint about appropriateness based on your studies of the pathology of criminals by fiat declaration lends itself towards my argument, not yours. Edited December 12, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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