Anyone concerned about the wr talent?

[Teddy KGB]

Watson would've doubled up  Tentative Taylors  stats no ? 

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

See the offensive play caller, Bill O'Brien, who designs the system along with DeAndre Hopkins as a #1 WR.  See the coaching staffs who design the offenses along with the targets for the Eagles and Rams respectively.  Same goes for any team with a good passing game.   So Nope!

 

[Marty McFly]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

OMG.   WHY?  Seriously?  

 

Who throws the ball to the WR's?   Themselves?  

Like 6pack said 

You can not judge talent of a WR when there is no one throwing the ball to them on a consistent basis.  

 

One last time - We have the talent on one side (WR) ergo I am not concerned about the WR positions.  

 

Really? We had a rookie QB throwing them balls on time and they still couldnt catch 

The Chargers defense makes more contested catches than we do

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Please do, Jones and Matthews are at 11.6 & 11.3 YPR, Goodwin at 19.3 YPR (highest in the league). Goodwin averages 9.67 yards per target. Zay averages 4.28 yards per target and Matthews 7.83 yards per target.

Keep asking yourself ... why?   sooner or later the answer will tap you on the nose.  

 

[Marty McFly]

The WR talent on this team needs serious upgrading. We need more speed on the field. We need players that can take it to the hole on any given play. We have no players on offense besides Shady that strike fear in the heart of defensive coordinators

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Why are you talking about Tyrod? He won’t be here next year!! Please stay on topic

It's funny about Taylor. There is no reason to ditch him next year and there is no reason to keep him. We could ha e 2 new QB's on the roster next year along with Peterman.  Two rookie QB's and Peterman.

I'd take Taylor over a 2nd rookie. Taylor would be a great backup. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, Marty McFly said:

 

Really? We had a rookie QB throwing them balls on time and they still couldnt catch 

The Chargers defense makes more contested catches than we do

you say that like it means something to me.   

 

When you have to throw a rookie QB into the fire on the road, things are bad.    Keep asking yourself ... why?   sooner or later the answer will tap you on the nose.  

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So you don’t value DVOA or points? 

I don't like DVOA myself, but you do realize that FootballOutsiders breaks down offensive DVOA by category...in 2015 when we were 8th overall by offensive DVOA our passing attack was ranked 12th and rushing attack ranked 2nd. Similar story in 2016 when our offensive DVOA was ranked 9th overall with passing 18th and rushing 1st. There's very little room to credit the WRs or passing attack for DVOA over the past two and a half seasons IMO.

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

Watson would've doubled up  Tentative Taylors  stats no ? 

 

I have no idea what he would have done with this group of receivers with Dennison as his OC who'd be designing the offense and calling plays.

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

If he is what he is why do you need to exaggerate to make your point?

He is a 3000 yard passer in 14 games with Watkins, Woods, and Hogan

He is a 3000 yard passer in 15 games with Woods, Goodwin, and Watkins for 7 games

 

Anyway, this is about our WRs, not QB, as Kirby suggested multiple times.

Plain and simple, the Bills WRs this season are not NFL caliber.  Aside from Benjamin who has played 1 game plus 1 series of another game, none of them would be starters on any other NFL team ... if they even made the team.  Holmes is a career STer.  Thompson was a street FA when signed by the Bills.

 

 

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, Marty McFly said:

The WR talent on this team needs serious upgrading. We need more speed on the field. We need players that can take it to the hole on any given play. We have no players on offense besides Shady that strike fear in the heart of defensive coordinators

You could put the best WR's and TE's in the league on this team.  It wouldn't matter.  

2 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

It's funny about Taylor. There is no reason to ditch him next year and there is no reason to keep him. We could ha e 2 new QB's on the roster next year along with Peterman.  Two rookie QB's and Peterman.

I'd take Taylor over a 2nd rookie. Taylor would be a great backup. 

there will always be the looking over the shoulder at TT riding the pine.     Go with  your 2 rookies and 1 sophomore.  

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't like DVOA myself, but you do realize that FootballOutsiders breaks down offensive DVOA by category...in 2015 when we were 8th overall by offensive DVOA our passing attack was ranked 12th and rushing attack ranked 2nd. Similar story in 2016 when our offensive DVOA was ranked 9th overall with passing 18th and rushing 1st. There's very little room to credit the WRs or passing attack for DVOA over the past two and a half seasons IMO.

 

 

I don't pay attention to these things like DVOA.  When you "break down" stats then you are cherry picking. 

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

8 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

You forgot the Packers since AR's injury.  

You see this is why STATS are virtually meaningless.    A guy can pass for 76 net yards and get a win, a guy can pass for 500 yards and lose. 

It's not the size (passing yards) that matters but what you do with it.  

Prescott is good, Mariota (sp?) is good, Dalton IS good (except for playoffs), Bears  lol.   Is it true the coaches only gave him 5 pass plays the other week? 

Make Tyrod a QB. (2 straight seasons)     Do they say that for any of those you listed?   

Yes yes, you constantly complain about stats because they typically shed light on the BS portions of your terrible takes. I'm sure it's very frustrating.

 

I'm not the one who claimed "In Buffalo and Buffalo alone we have a QB that does not throw the ball a lot." I gave you 4 teams that throw the ball less. Buffalo alone, huh? Take the L and find another hill to die on.

 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

 

To be clear: i think we have QB AND OC issues.

 

It doesn't have to be one or the other.

What I don't think we have is a WR issue.

 

 

What if wr's are not getting open?

[THEHARDTRUTH]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

was there any added value to this post?   

No more than the 6,675,432 posts about how good or bad tyrod is. Somebody starts a thread about how his neighbors dog took a dump in his front yard for the fifth time this week and it turns into a debate about tyrod. For those who havent figured it out yet, the pro tyrod people arent changing their mind and the anti Tyrod people arent changing theirs. Its like listening to and argument between the Manson Family and a group of scientologists. Both sides are certifiable.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Yes yes, you constantly complain about stats because they typically shed light on the BS portions of your terrible takes. I'm sure it's very frustrating.

 

I'm not the one who claimed "In Buffalo and Buffalo alone we have a QB that does not throw the ball a lot." I gave you 4 teams that throw the ball less. Buffalo alone, huh? Take the L and find another hill to die on.

 

My terrible takes?  You are better than that 13.     We can disagree without posting jabs.  

 

Chicago is a freaking joke.  So in Cincy for the most part but Andy Dalton is a very good QB.  Prescott is still a sophomore no?  Mariota 2nd or 3 year?  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

the Champions (aka Crusaders) for Taylor need to stop blaming the universe for TT's shortcomings. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, ShadyBillsFan said:

My terrible takes?  You are better than that 13.     We can disagree without posting jabs.  

 

Chicago is a freaking joke.  So in Cincy for the most part but Andy Dalton is a very good QB.  Prescott is still a sophomore no?  Mariota 2nd or 3 year?  

So why aren't they throwing more? Cincy has Dalton and AJ Green. Mariota was the #2 Overall Pick. Prescott was OROY last year. Why not throw more than the Bills who "alone have a QB that does not throw the ball a lot".

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, Marty McFly said:

 

 

bro im bout to tap your mom on the nose with my 1987 delorean D!

 

get the fck outta here. that rookie QB start at LA was fckin STOOOOOPID

 

If you wanna tank then yeah start the kid but, theres vets on the team that wanna win, Tyrod is the best we have on the roster this season.

 

Theres no way around it. As soon as Tyrod signs to another team ill make an avi bet he puts up better numbers than here.

 

Well DUH.   Why?  Because TT and the talent they brought it were not producing.  He needed to try something.  He just picked a very bad scenario. 

 

Unfortunately  "The best" is not enough.   

[Big Gun]

3 minutes ago, Marty McFly said:

 

 

bro im bout to tap your mom on the nose with my 1987 delorean D!

 

get the fck outta here. that rookie QB start at LA was fckin STOOOOOPID

 

If you wanna tank then yeah start the kid but, theres vets on the team that wanna win, Tyrod is the best we have on the roster this season.

 

Theres no way around it. As soon as Tyrod signs to another team ill make an avi bet he puts up better numbers than here.

 

Could not disagree more.

[THEHARDTRUTH]

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

the Champions (aka Crusaders) for Taylor need to stop blaming the universe for TT's shortcomings. 

Well if you studied alt 22 youd realize that the oline gets pushed back 7.2386543 inches more on every drop than the top 5 qbs in the league causing taylor to have to create an arc on the ball that is 9.685432 degrees higher creating a decrease in speed of 3.75 mph per pass attempt give the defensive back exactly .056745 more seconds to defend the play leading to a 4.76529 decrease in completion percentage. A decrease in 1.673219 yards per pass attempt and a reduction in td passes of 295.78543145 percent. You clearly just dont understand the game. Or you simply have an agenda.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

So why aren't they throwing more? Cincy has Dalton and AJ Green. Mariota was the #2 Overall Pick. Prescott was OROY last year. Why not throw more than the Bills who "alone have a QB that does not throw the ball a lot".

1) Cincy has Dalton and AJ Green and they are called the Bungles for a reason.  

 

2) You are comparing a guy with 7 - 8 years of smarts to a bunch of kids still wet behind the ears. 

 

3) Prescott lost Zeke before they started "tanking"  

 

Q - how is the run game supplemented on these 3 or 4 teams?   I really haven't been watching a ton of football beyond the RZ channel and you don't get a full picture.  

 

[THEHARDTRUTH]

TYROD SUCKS. NO HE DOESNT. YES HE DOES. DOESNT. DOES. DOESNT. DOES.  And for those of you using dvoa to make a point your living in the 1800s. The stat to go with is xysdvoosa cubed. Get with the program.

[Marty McFly]

4 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

1) Cincy has Dalton and AJ Green and they are called the Bungles for a reason.  

 

2) You are comparing a guy with 7 - 8 years of smarts to a bunch of kids still wet behind the ears. 

 

3) Prescott lost Zeke before they started "tanking"  

 

Q - how is the run game supplemented on these 3 or 4 teams?   I really haven't been watching a ton of football beyond the RZ channel and you don't get a full picture.  

 

 

Without a running game Dallas cant win on the back of his arm. Theres not a lot of QBs that can win without a running game. Sometimes yall expect too much from the amount of talent we have on the field

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

1) Cincy has Dalton and AJ Green and they are called the Bungles for a reason.  

2) You are comparing a guy with 7 - 8 years of smarts to a bunch of kids still wet behind the ears. 

3) Prescott lost Zeke before they started "tanking"  

Q - how is the run game supplemented on these 3 or 4 teams?   I really haven't been watching a ton of football beyond the RZ channel and you don't get a full picture.  

Cincy's run game is awful. 30th in yards, T-27th in attempts, 30th in YPC.

Tennessee is 7th in yards (exactly 1 yard more than the Bills), 13th in attempts, and 7th in YPC

Dallas is 4th in yards, 5th in attempts, and 3rd in YPC

Chicago is T-12 in yards, T-15th in attempts, and 10th in YPC

Buffalo is 8th in yards, 6th in attempts, and 13th in YPC

 

But again, they aren't throwing. It isn't just a Buffalo thing. And when we had the #1 rushing offense in the league we "ran that much because our QB couldn't throw". In case you forgot.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Great segue.  Now we've gotten to the O Line that literally let Bosa run FREE and harass a rookie on their home turf in LA. 

 

Does the O Line improve and digress weekly?  (the answer is probably yes,  but based on the numerous discussions on  Vladimir Ducasse, Ryan Groy, John Miller,  Jordan Mills, Cordy Glenn).

 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Does that mean that the Titans, Cowboys, Bengals, and Bears have QBs that don't throw at all? Those 4 have less called pass plays per game than the Bills.

Are you talking about attempts? Because I think only the Bears and Bengals have less attempts. And in terms of the QBs, Trubisky's only played 8 games.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

But again, they aren't throwing. It isn't just a Buffalo thing. And when we had the #1 rushing offense in the league we "ran that much because our QB couldn't throw". In case you forgot.

when they are passing,  are they effective? 

 

what you do with the pass that makes it efficient and effective.  

 

Do any of them have 2 games with a rating under 40? 

 

besides Chicago.  

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Are you talking about attempts? Because I think only the Bears and Bengals have less attempts. And in terms of the QBs, Trubisky's only played 8 games.

Called pass plays. Attempts + Sacks. Still flawed in that it doesn't account for scrambles or RPOs where run is the correct call, but it'll do. And that's a per game basis based on team, not broken down by QB. (Chicago went from 37 per game with Glennon to 26.8 per game with Trubisky, fwiw)

[Kirby Jackson]

32 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Keep asking yourself ... why?   sooner or later the answer will tap you on the nose.  

 

Why do we have a guy playing averaging less than 5 yards a target?!? I can almost guarantee that’s the lowest in the league. You don’t see that as a problem?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Why do we have a guy playing averaging less than 5 yards a target?!     

 

You don’t see that as a problem?

Checkdown passed?

 

Yes, I do.   Again Ask yourself WHY?  

 

You will learn young padawan  

 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Called pass plays. Attempts + Sacks. Still flawed in that it doesn't account for scrambles or RPOs where run is the correct call, but it'll do. And that's a per game basis based on team, not broken down by QB. (Chicago went from 37 per game with Glennon to 26.8 per game with Trubisky, fwiw)

Why do you include sacks? 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Checkdown passed?

 

Yes, I do.   Again Ask yourself WHY?  

 

You will learn young padawan  

 

 

Why do the rest of the Bills receivers have a much higher yards per target and catch percentage? They all play with the same QBs. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

28 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

What if wr's are not getting open?

 

People have said that about WRs over the entirety of Taylor's tenure.

 

So either we haven't had WRs who can't get open, or Taylor's not throwig them open. Take your pick.

 

[sleeby]

WR is a team in need of upgrades.  Tyrod and OC aside, Nathan p threw several fine passes (not all to WRs though) that were not caught.  

 

I say draft one and FA another if able.  Assuming a rookie qb next season pairing him with one rookie wr would be fine.  The best EJ ever looked was his first games when he and woods were having a rookie bond connection going.

[BuffaloHokie13]

5 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

when they are passing,  are they effective? 

what you do with the pass that makes it efficient and effective.  

Do any of them have 2 games with a rating under 40? 

besides Chicago.  

I thought stats were virtually meaningless, so whats with all the requests?

 

All of the teams are bottom half of the league in YPA.

Prescott has a game with a rating of 30.4 (worse than any of TT's games) 3 INTs, no TDs

Dalton has a game with a rating of 28.4. 4 INTs, no TDs

Mariota hasn't been quite that bad in a single game, but just bad every game. He has the same number of TDs as Tyrod and double the turnovers. His rating on the year is 80.4, compared to TT's 88.6

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Why do you include sacks? 

Because the statement was that Buffalo alone has a QB who doesn't pass much. Do you deny that a Sack results from a called pass play?

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Because the statement was that Buffalo alone has a QB who doesn't pass much. Do you deny that a Sack results from a called pass play?

Not at all. Do you deny that a QB who doesn't pass much gets sacked?

 

And Mariota has NOT been playing well at all, but I have to point out that he's been injured pretty much the entire season. 

[THEHARDTRUTH]

10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Why do the rest of the Bills receivers have a much higher yards per target and catch percentage? They all play with the same QBs. 

I got this one. He usally throw the ball less than 5 times a game so that one 40 yarder he hits dramatically inflates his yards per target and he normally doesnt throw it unless his receiver has at least 20 yards of separation making it much more likely that the catch will be made.

[BuffaloHokie13]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Not at all. Do you deny that a QB who doesn't pass much gets sacked?

 

And Mariota has NOT been playing well at all, but I have to point out that he's been injured pretty much the entire season. 

Well you need to be attempting a pass to get sacked. I assume you're actually interested in sack % vs sacks with this question though. Because Stafford has been sacked a lot, because he's being asked to pass. Regardless, Tyrod also isn't alone in sack % in the league so his point is still invalid. Tyrod's 8th. Brissett, Hundley, Cassel, Trubisky, and Bradford all worse. Surprised by Bradford, as Keenum behind the same line has the lowest sack % of starters at 2.44%.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Well you need to be attempting a pass to get sacked. I assume you're actually interested in sack % vs sacks with this question though. Because Stafford has been sacked a lot, because he's being asked to pass. Regardless, Tyrod also isn't alone in sack % in the league so his point is still invalid. Tyrod's 8th. Brissett, Hundley, Cassel, Trubisky, and Bradford all worse. Surprised by Bradford, as Keenum behind the same line has the lowest sack % of starters at 2.44%.

Correct. I guess I jumped in the conversation, but if the overall point is to try and deduce whether the low amount of attempts is related more to WR or QB quality (or lack thereof), adding sacks into attempts to get a higher number of pass plays doesn't account for whether or not that sack could have been avoided, and isn't an indicator of anything other than the result of the called pass play was a sack. I'm not sure I would credit a QB (or an offense) an attempt on a play that resulted in a sack.

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

The rushing offense was good. The passing offense was not good. Goodwin is the same guy he was here, he's just getting the ball now. Talent at WR is fine, for me.

 

Benjamin Matthews Thompson Jones = Watkins Woods Goodwin Hogan/whoever

You can't be serious????

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

You can't be serious????

 

About what? that the pass offense blew the previous two years as well. Yes, yes it did.

 

This offense WAS shady mccoy.