Bills clueless about Tyrod Taylor article

[Billsfan1972]

46 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

POINT. SET. MATCH.  You absolutely nailed it ...  as did the original article.  

 

As for Peterman, it seems to me that he was set up to fail, too.   In addition to the limited prep time he had, the game plan he was asked to execute simply wasn't what a sensible HC/OC would provide for a rookie making his first start.  Instead of a simplified plan emphasizing lots of running, max protections, and limited, safe passes to protect the rookie as much as they could, they had Peterman slinging it behind an OL that has been and is playing poorly ... against Joey Bosa and Company ... way too much.  Are they that stupid or did they have another agenda?

 

I am not a conspiracy theory believer by nature.  In fact, I tend to be just the opposite.  However, the Bills have made so many bizarre moves since they put the McDermott-Beane regime in place, that I'm convinced that winning football games -- now, in the immediate future, or ten years down the road -- is simply not on their agenda.  I don't know what their agenda is but obviously it's not winning. 

 

I have no doubt that the Bills -- FO and coaching staff -- have done their best to sabotage Taylor, and I think that throwing Peterman to the wolves in LA on Sunday was part and parcel of it.  They wanted him to throw downfield more than any first time starter should be asked to throw in order to "prove" that the Bills conservative offense in previous games was all Taylor's fault.  It blew up in their faces, and I'm glad of that ... but I'm sorry that Nate Peterman, Tyrod Taylor, and all the rest of the Bills players suffered such humiliation because of the asshats in charge.  I am also beyond angry that the Bills organization has shown such disdain for Bills fans and their loyalty over the years as to not even TRY to win games in a year when making the playoffs in the AFC with a 9-7 record is entirely possible ... and with the Bills even holding some tie-breakers.

 

And for you cretins who want to B word that the rest of the Bills players ought to have played better, understand that most of them simply can't.  They don't have the talent.  Most of the younger talented Bills players from the last couple of years -- "Whaley's mistakes" as you cretins call them -- are scattered around the league playing on playoff bound teams.  The Bills in their infinite wisdom gleaned from seventeen, soon to be eighteen, straight years of avoiding the playoffs, replaced them with scrubs and rookies.

 

It's not reprehensible for a football player to lack talent.  It's the way it is.  It is reprehensible, however, for a football team to not even try to win a game when they are seeded for a playoff slot.

 

 

You get it!!!!  You can not play Peterman this week.  But who knows with these idiots.  The spread right now is KC +9.5.....  I bet it jumps to 12+ if Peterman is named the starter.

[xxxxxxxx]

8 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

POINT. SET. MATCH.  You absolutely nailed it ...  as did the original article.  

 

As for Peterman, it seems to me that he was set up to fail, too.   In addition to the limited prep time he had, the game plan he was asked to execute simply wasn't what a sensible HC/OC would provide for a rookie making his first start.  Instead of a simplified plan emphasizing lots of running, max protections, and limited, safe passes to protect the rookie as much as they could, they had Peterman slinging it behind an OL that has been and is playing poorly ... against Joey Bosa and Company ... way too much.  Are they that stupid or did they have another agenda?

 

I am not a conspiracy theory believer by nature.  In fact, I tend to be just the opposite.  However, the Bills have made so many bizarre moves since they put the McDermott-Beane regime in place, that I'm convinced that winning football games -- now, in the immediate future, or ten years down the road -- is simply not on their agenda.  I don't know what their agenda is but obviously it's not winning. 

 

I have no doubt that the Bills -- FO and coaching staff -- have done their best to sabotage Taylor, and I think that throwing Peterman to the wolves in LA on Sunday was part and parcel of it.  They wanted him to throw downfield more than any first time starter should be asked to throw in order to "prove" that the Bills conservative offense in previous games was all Taylor's fault.  It blew up in their faces, and I'm glad of that ... but I'm sorry that Nate Peterman, Tyrod Taylor, and all the rest of the Bills players suffered such humiliation because of the asshats in charge.  I am also beyond angry that the Bills organization has shown such disdain for Bills fans and their loyalty over the years as to not even TRY to win games in a year when making the playoffs in the AFC with a 9-7 record is entirely possible ... and with the Bills even holding some tie-breakers.

 

And for you cretins who want to B word that the rest of the Bills players ought to have played better, understand that most of them simply can't.  They don't have the talent.  Most of the younger talented Bills players from the last couple of years -- "Whaley's mistakes" as you cretins call them -- are scattered around the league playing on playoff bound teams.  The Bills in their infinite wisdom gleaned from seventeen, soon to be eighteen, straight years of avoiding the playoffs, replaced them with scrubs and rookies.

 

It's not reprehensible for a football player to lack talent.  It's the way it is.  It is reprehensible, however, for a football team to not even try to win a game when they are seeded for a playoff slot.

 

 

The only reasonable explanation that I can muster behind the decision is that they don't think they can beat New England until Bill and Tom retire,  and they feel that the QB position is overvalued from a cap perspective.  More likely than not,  Mcdermott and Beane feel that a fair market contract for an average QB will take up too much cap space so they want someone younger and cheaper. They would rather win the division in 2-3 years than be one and done in the playoffs because doing so would offer both of them more job security. 

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by MURPHD6

[BananaB]

Every week when we get behind the announcers comment on how this team can’t play from behind with Taylor because of his passing ability. 

 

Our D was getting torched the past few weeks and Sunday Rivers moved the ball with ease. Didn’t matter where the drive started it ended in points.  Taylor would not of won this game. I could care less about what happened to Peterman, sure will see him again when we are 5-7. Oline sure the !@#$ didn’t help him. Kid wasn’t sitting in the pocket looking for WRs. He made quick decisions and tried to get the ball out but our line couldn’t hold off the pass rush. 

 

We have beat teams that aren’t very good this season. We thought we were better then we are because of what these teams have done in the past. We won these games on the shoulders of our defense. When McDermot said we are better then 5-4, he was right. We should of started 7-0 the way the D was playing early in the season, but our O was !@#$ing terrible against the Panthers and Bengals.  Our O has been struggling all season. All those turnovers and our MVP on O during that stretch was Hauska. 

 

It wasn’t a bad decision to put Peterman in, it was a bad decision to put him in against the Chargers pass rush.  

Edited November 22, 2017 by BananaB

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, MURPHD6 said:

The only reasonable explanation that I can muster behind the decision is that they don't think they can beat New England until Bill and Tom retire,  and they feel that the QB position is overvalued from a cap perspective.  More likely than not,  Mcdermott and Beane feel that a fair market contract for an average QB will take up too much cap space so they want someone younger and cheaper. They would rather win the division in 2-3 years than be one and done in the playoffs because doing so would offer both of them more job security. 

 

 

If the players come to believe that McDermott is not playing to win games this season, then he'll lose the locker room if he hasn't already lost it.  Those weren't just losses, they were butt-whippings, each worse than the last.

 

[Comebackkid]

I could be wrong here. ... (disclaimer)  but sitting here thinking about things, it seems beane and mcD have a clear idea of what they want and don't want.  Looking at the trades made,  what we got in return vs what was given foe them. I thing if you don't fit in the box they have created,  you have no real value to them.    I'd put Taylor outside their box, they just don't have an option at the moment. 

[xxxxxxxx]

12 hours ago, Comebackkid said:

I could be wrong here. ... (disclaimer)  but sitting here thinking about things, it seems beane and mcD have a clear idea of what they want and don't want.  Looking at the trades made,  what we got in return vs what was given foe them. I thing if you don't fit in the box they have created,  you have no real value to them.    I'd put Taylor outside their box, they just don't have an option at the moment. 

Absolutely. They have said as much. Reminds my of the cockiness that McDaniels displayed when he took over Denver, and the tire fire that resulted. People complain about passing yards and missed throws, but he more than over compensates for that by protecting the ball, running effectively, and escaping trouble. Clearly, they don't care about the later--and would prefer a guy who hangs in the pocket and tries to make throws. He's not outside their box because they don't like black people , he's outside their box because black quarterbacks who excel at running don't always get credit for how their ability to run helps a team. This is a subtle distinction that most people miss, disregard, or refuse to acknowledge because they think Sean is such a nice guy, and couldn't possibly be racist. But its not an issue of him being a racist, at all, its the metrics that he is using, and the broader history that informs them.

Edited November 23, 2017 by MURPHD6

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, MURPHD6 said:

Absolutely. They have said as much. Reminds my of the cockiness that McDaniels displayed when he took over Denver, and the tire fire that resulted. People complain about passing yards and missed throws, but he more than over compensates for that by protecting the ball, running effectively, and escaping trouble. Clearly, they don't care about the later--and would prefer a guy who hangs in the pocket and tries to make throws. He's not outside their box because they don't like black people , he's outside their box because black quarterbacks who excel at running don't always get credit for how their ability to run helps a team. This is a subtle distinction that most people miss, disregard, or refuse to acknowledge because they think Sean is such a nice guy, and couldn't possibly be racist. But its not an issue of him being a racist, at all, its the metrics that he is using, and the broader history that informs them.

When we need to pass he can’t. That’s all it comes down too. Unless our D is playing lights out every game we lose, with the exception of a few where we lose when they are playing lights out (Panthers and Bengals). If we are in a close game and we need to score at the end we lose.... It really doesn’t matter how close you are at the end of the game if you still can’t win. It’s about making changes and finding something that consistently gets you Ws. Taylor isn’t that guy and he isn’t changing, he is who he is. Peterman definitely didn’t look like that guy Sunday but I wouldn’t judge a guy off one bad game. Especially his first

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, BananaB said:

When we need to pass he can’t. That’s all it comes down too. Unless our D is playing lights out every game we lose, with the exception of a few where we lose when they are playing lights out (Panthers and Bengals). If we are in a close game and we need to score at the end we lose.... It really doesn’t matter how close you are at the end of the game if you still can’t win. It’s about making changes and finding something that consistently gets you Ws. Taylor isn’t that guy and he isn’t changing, he is who he is. Peterman definitely didn’t look like that guy Sunday but I wouldn’t judge a guy off one bad game. Especially his first

 

See the Tampa Bay Game this year. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

When we need to pass he can’t. That’s all it comes down too. Unless our D is playing lights out every game we lose, with the exception of a few where we lose when they are playing lights out (Panthers and Bengals). If we are in a close game and we need to score at the end we lose.... It really doesn’t matter how close you are at the end of the game if you still can’t win. It’s about making changes and finding something that consistently gets you Ws. Taylor isn’t that guy and he isn’t changing, he is who he is. Peterman definitely didn’t look like that guy Sunday but I wouldn’t judge a guy off one bad game. Especially his first

 

As 26SB said.........wasn't the case versus Tampa.

 

This year the offense has been gutted of playmaking WR's......and even what should be complementary targets like Clay and Matthews have been unavailable often...........people act like picking up scrap heap Deonte Thompson after he was cut was supposed to give Tyrod an elite deep threat.   His opposite WR corps versusTampa featured Mike Evans and Deshawn Jackson.

 

And last year........in losses where Tyrod started the Bills defense gave up an average of 31 points.....despite almost never having to face short fields because Tyrod didn't turn the ball over..........that's not lights out defense......it's AWFUL defense.

[BananaB]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

As 26SB said.........wasn't the case versus Tampa.

 

This year the offense has been gutted of playmaking WR's......and even what should be complementary targets like Clay and Matthews have been unavailable often...........people act like picking up scrap heap Deonte Thompson after he was cut was supposed to give Tyrod an elite deep threat.   His opposite WR corps versusTampa featured Mike Evans and Deshawn Jackson.

 

And last year........in losses where Tyrod started the Bills defense gave up an average of 31 points.....despite almost never having to face short fields because Tyrod didn't turn the ball over..........that's not lights out defense......it's AWFUL defense.

 

They also gave up on average 17 in games we won with multiple turnovers in all. 

 

And our O has scored 12.5 points per game our losses when Tyrod started. That includes garbage time points against Jets and Saints. 

 

Our D is bad and our O is bad. Both very inconsistent this year but the D is what really helped us win games. 

 

We have one of the worst passing offences in the league, this year and last. Sure there is multiple reasons for this and Taylor is a part of the problem. He may be the best QB we had since Kelly (debatable with Bledsoe)  but it still isn’t enough. 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, BananaB said:

 

They also gave up on average 17 in games we won with multiple turnovers in all. 

 

And our O has scored 12.5 points per game our losses when Tyrod started. That includes garbage time points against Jets and Saints. 

 

Our D is bad and our O is bad. Both very inconsistent this year but the D is what really helped us win games. 

 

We have one of the worst passing offences in the league, this year and last. Sure there is multiple reasons for this and Taylor is a part of the problem. He may be the best QB we had since Kelly (debatable with Bledsoe)  but it still isn’t enough. 

 

 

Last season they were 7th in the NFL in scoring and had the fewest turnovers by an NFL team thru 15 games since the merger........and scored 28 points on average in wins......a very healthy margin of victory......not narrow defensive victories.

 

There have been MANY factors relating to their offensive woes this year and Tyrod is the least of them.

 

Poor coaching on many levels......poor offensive design.......poor play calls.......game-tighteningly conservative calls in numerous games.....and then major matchup issues outside the hashes......no depth at RB.......woeful pass protection. 

 

 

 

[Comebackkid]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Last season they were 7th in the NFL in scoring and had the fewest turnovers by an NFL team thru 15 games since the merger........and scored 28 points on average in wins......a very healthy margin of victory......not narrow defensive victories.

 

There have been MANY factors relating to their offensive woes this year and Tyrod is the least of them.

 

Poor coaching on many levels......poor offensive design.......poor play calls.......game-tighteningly conservative calls in numerous games.....and then major matchup issues outside the hashes......no depth at RB.......woeful pass protection. 

 

im not sure how much it factors in, in Dennisons mind...but I wonder if he has kept the offense vanilla due to the huge turnover this year when it comes to the receivers. what ever the reason Dennison would have hard time schemeing his way out of a paper bag this year.   Regardless of the short comings of the offense...Dennison is doing very little to make it any easier on them.  

 

 

[xxxxxxxx]

23 hours ago, BananaB said:

When we need to pass he can’t. That’s all it comes down too. Unless our D is playing lights out every game we lose, with the exception of a few where we lose when they are playing lights out (Panthers and Bengals). If we are in a close game and we need to score at the end we lose.... It really doesn’t matter how close you are at the end of the game if you still can’t win. It’s about making changes and finding something that consistently gets you Ws. Taylor isn’t that guy and he isn’t changing, he is who he is. Peterman definitely didn’t look like that guy Sunday but I wouldn’t judge a guy off one bad game. Especially his first

Aaron Rodgers 1-36 when trailing by 1 point to a team with a winning record in the 4th quarter. When Green Bay needs to pass he can't. That's all it comes down too. Unless the Green Bay D is playing lights out every game Green Bay looses. It really doesn't matter how close you are at the end of the game if you still can't win. Its about making changes and finding something that consistently gets you W's. Rodgers isn't that guy and he isn't changing, he is who he is. Peterman definitely didn't look like that guy on Sunday but I wouldn't judge that guy off one bad game. Especially his first.

 

Makes Sense! Let's offer Peterman to Green Bay for Rodgers Straight up.  

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by MURPHD6

[SoTier]

23 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

See the Tampa Bay Game this year. 

 

Don't confuse the haters with facts FCOL!

[Billsfan1972]

14 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

Aaron Rodgers 1-36 when trailing by 1 point to a team with a winning record in the 4th quarter. When Green Bay needs to pass he can't. That's all it comes down too. Unless the Green Bay D is playing lights out every game Green Bay looses. It really doesn't matter how close you are at the end of the game if you still can't win. Its about making changes and finding something that consistently gets you W's. Rodgers isn't that guy and he isn't changing, he is who he is. Peterman definitely didn't look like that guy on Sunday but I wouldn't judge that guy off one bad game. Especially his first.

 

Makes Sense! Let's offer Peterman to Green Bay for Rodgers Straight up.  

 

 

 

But does Rodgers fit the OC's philosophy and is he a McDermott guy?  Remember it is all about their character and playing their system!!!!

[transplantbillsfan]

Lost in this thread and all of the criticism of the writing itself is the fact that it contains a whole lot of truths about Taylor:

 

- There are coaches who adamantly prefer system over player and there are coaches have a lot more flexibility and creativity who design schemes around those players that they already have. Goff, Watson, Smith and Wentz are used as examples. Our current coaches are clearly the former rather than the latter.

 

-  Tyrod does miss open receivers. But so does every other QB in the NFL. But "number of open receivers missed per game" still is not a statistic that they track as far, as I know. So a lot of the talk about Taylor missing "too many" open receivers just seems like a stab in the dark unless you're comparing him with some kind of NFL norm.

 

- All of the arguments that Taylor always throws too short of the sticks in comparison to other NFL QBs seems to be shot down as Next Gen Stats notes he's right in the middle of the pack in terms of air yards to the sticks.

 

- In fact, since 2015 Taylor's 3rd down passes have traveled an average of 10.1 yards through the air which is 3rd best in the league.

 

- The Bills are so awful on 1st and 2nd down that the 3rd worst team in the NFL in terms of distance to go on 3rd down.

 

- Despite that, somehow Taylor still has the 9th best 3rd down conversion % on 3rd down plays.

 

 

I can also add that Taylor's improved in varying degrees on things people really criticized him for in his first couple years. Throwing in that intermediate middle range (10-20 yards) of the football field is really not a big issue or even topic of discussion anymore because he's throwing there more and throwing there effectively. 

 

He still has work to do in the pocket, but he's also really improved there.

 

 

 I don't know that it's really fair to say that the Bills are clueless about Taylor yet because the rest of the season has yet to unfold and it will be interesting to see what happens in the off-season. I understand wanting to see Peterman to see if he could be better, although it's a little disturbing that the coaches  legitimately thought he might be better after watching and then practice for this whole time. Then again, it seems to go back to one of those things in the first bullet point having to do with scheming for your players. Dennison obviously doesn't like to do that. 

 

One thing's for sure though. There seems to be a lot of clueless Bills fans.

Edited November 25, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Tampa or the Titans?  The Titans game was was won by TT all alone 

 

Tenny was a team that had 3 wins that season IIRC and Buffalo squeaked  out a win 

[Comebackkid]

25 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Lost in this thread and all of the criticism of the writing itself is the fact that it contains a whole lot of truths about Taylor:

 

- There are coaches who adamantly prefer system over player and there are coaches have a lot more flexibility and creativity who design schemes around those players that they already have. Goff, Watson, Smith and Wentz are used as examples. Our current coaches are clearly the former rather than the latter.

 

-  Tyrod does miss open receivers. But so does every other QB in the NFL. But "number of open receivers missed per game" still is not a statistic that they track as far, as I know. So a lot of the talk about Taylor missing "too many" open receivers just seems like a stab in the dark unless you're comparing him with some kind of NFL norm.

 

- All of the arguments that Taylor always throws too short of the sticks in comparison to other NFL QBs seems to be shot down as Next Gen Stats notes he's right in the middle of the pack in terms of air yards to the sticks.

 

- In fact, since 2015 Taylor's 3rd down passes have traveled an average of 10.1 yards through the air which is 3rd best in the league.

 

- The Bills are so awful on 1st and 2nd down that the 3rd worst team in the NFL in terms of distance to go on 3rd down.

 

- Despite that, somehow Taylor still has the 9th best 3rd down conversion % on 3rd down plays.

 

 

I can also add that Taylor's improved in varying degrees on things people really criticized him for in his first couple years. Throwing in that intermediate middle range (10-20 yards) of the football field is really not a big issue or even topic of discussion anymore because he's throwing there more and throwing there effectively. 

 

He still has work to do in the pocket, but he's also really improved there.

 

 

 I don't know that it's really fair to say that the Bills are clueless about Taylor yet because the rest of the season has yet to unfold and it will be interesting to see what happens in the off-season. I understand wanting to see Peterman to see if he could be better, although it's a little disturbing that the coaches  legitimately thought he might be better after watching and then practice for this whole time. Then again, it seems to go back to one of those things in the first bullet point having to do with scheming for your players. Dennison obviously doesn't like to do that. 

 

One thing's for sure though. There seems to be a lot of clueless Bills fans.

good post and well said.   the problem is that someone says something...either on here or some media talking head and then someone repeats it and then suddenly its gospel truth...  Then these supposed truths which were never truths to begin with randomly get thrown out with no foresight to it actually being a valid statement.   

 

Tyrod sux.

 Tyrod doenst throw to the middle of the field

Tyrod is bad under pressure

Tyrod is just a back up qb

Tyrod is one of the worst qbs in the league

Tyrod has horrible acuracy

 

just a few of the myths that get tossed around as fact 

 

As far as the Bills being clueless about Tyrod...  you could take as the Bills being clueless on how to actually use him or my preference would be that the

Bills are clueless about his actual value as a qb...which in part reverts back to the first option.

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Comebackkid

[transplantbillsfan]

On 11/21/2017 at 10:44 AM, Billsfan1972 said:

Because he's not ready, was a 5th round pick and needs a lot more coaching.  Fifth round rookies do not start for NFL teams in a playoff position or when the starter is healthy........

 

Never ever happened until the Bills genius coach did it!!!!!!

 

And you wonder why the national media was laughing before the 5 ints!!!!!!

 

Funny because by most accounts that's the entire reason Peterman was such a steal in the 5th round and why some projected him in the first few rounds:

 

He was the most NFL ready QB, remember?

[transplantbillsfan]

On 11/21/2017 at 3:46 PM, ScottLaw said:

I've said it since last year.

 

Ill never understand the Tyrod hate. He's solid. He had one **** game against the Saints and the pitch forks were out. 

 

Keep him until you have something better.

 

Yep, one **** game against the Saints, he gets benched for it, and karma comes back and really bites the guy who benched him in the butt

[transplantbillsfan]

On 11/21/2017 at 10:19 PM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah. There were some good points but also a number of misreadings of what's going on that seemed almost bizarre.

 

He claims that they're not behind Tyrod as shown by the fact that they're not changing their system in ways that would most help a guy with a style like his. And then further down he says that McDermott seems to be a system over personnel kind of guy. Exactly.

 

McDermott wants a guy who will play in his system. He gave Tyrod a chance to do that. He said from his first press conferences that a QB in his system must be able to throw successfully from the pocket. And now people are complaining that McDermott won't run tons of plays that go to Tyrod's strengths by putting him outside the pocket.

 

The problem isn't that they're not behind Tyrod. It's that as they've made clear, they're looking for a certain kind of QB, and Tyrod this year when given a chance to show he is that kind of a QB hasn't done so.

 

Ummm... what??? A misreading?

 

Anyone who still thinks the Bills were correct to bench Tyrod Taylor for the Nathan Peterman Turnover Loop yesterday need only look around the league. Jared Goff, Deshaun Watson, Carson Wentz, Alex Smith: all have either benefitted or improved this season because they play in offenses tailored to their strengths as quick-read or dual-threat quarterbacks.*

 

 

 

Read-options, run-pass options, zone-reads, play-action, pre-snap motion—these are the tools smart coaches are using to overcome the traditional deficiencies that have crept into the NFL because of the proliferation of spread offenses at the game’s lower levels. Then there is the paleozoic stubbornness of Bills head coach Sean McDermott and offensive coordinator Rick Dennison, who have insisted on making Taylor something he’s not, only to fault Taylor the moment things began to go south after a surprising 5-2 start.

 

 

Not a misreading. In the very beginning it's pointing out an approach by McDermott and Dennison that the article views as "palezoic stubbornness."

 

Love the phrasing because that's pretty much what it is.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

QB pergatory 

[Teddy KGB]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Yep, one **** game against the Saints, he gets benched for it, and karma comes back and really bites the guy who benched him in the butt

 

Only how many bad games ?   There's a 3 year sample size if you're scoring at home 

 

??‍♂️

 

Lets stop peddling false narratives, it's definitely deeper than "just one game"

 

.Karma got McDermott because he was forced to bench a guy who passed for 59 yards ? 

 

Karma vs Tooth Fairy.     Who wins ? 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Air it out Fitzy

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

 

Only how many bad games ?   There's a 3 year sample size if you're scoring at home 

 

??‍♂️

 

Lets stop peddling false narratives, it's definitely deeper than "just one game"

 

.Karma got McDermott because he was forced to bench a guy who passed for 59 yards ? 

 

Karma vs Tooth Fairy.     Who wins ? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He wasn't forced to do anything.

 

His defense didn't force a punt for almost two consecutive games...........that was 95% of the problem........the offensive issues were also not solely Tyrod's........as the Peterphiles found out in the first 2 quarters Sunday.

 

McD has now earned himself a NATIONAL reputation for making dumb decisions..........that could hurt him down the line........Pegula's are very sensitive to "dumpster fire" talk.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

 

59 yards is 59 yards.     Throw some risky jump balls like Cousins, Wilson and others do.   

 

 

He doesn't have nearly the leash that those guys have.

 

I'd like to see him throw the ball downfield and take more chances.......but I understand completely why he does not.

 

This is a guy who had a great game in a make or break playoff contest against the rival Dolphins after having to play with marginal NFL player Brandon Tate as one of his top 2 WR for much of the season.........and two days later he's on the bench and essentially being given 0% chance of returning to the team even though they have NOBODY behind him.

 

Takes a big contract adjustment to come back.........then the team undermines him to the point that he enters the season with ONLY Brandon Tate back in his WR corps from last year.

[Thurman#1]

23 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

His defense didn't force a punt for almost two consecutive games...........that was 95% of the problem........the offensive issues were also not solely Tyrod's........as the Peterphiles found out in the first 2 quarters Sunday.

 

McD has now earned himself a NATIONAL reputation for making dumb decisions..........that could hurt him down the line........Pegula's are very sensitive to "dumpster fire" talk.

 

 

 

Oh, please. Nobody - absolutely nobody - has been saying that our offensive issues are totally Tyrod's problems. As usual people with weak arguments imagine arguments that nobody has made and then knock down those completely imaginary arguments. Everyone's aware of our issues at RT, concerns at RG, and it goes on.

 

But yeah, Tyrod's problems are a large part of the problem.

 

And this decision by McDermott will be a molehill by the time he leaves here, whether he's been successful or not.

 

 

On 11/25/2017 at 4:06 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Ummm... what??? A misreading?

 

Anyone who still thinks the Bills were correct to bench Tyrod Taylor for the Nathan Peterman Turnover Loop yesterday need only look around the league. Jared Goff, Deshaun Watson, Carson Wentz, Alex Smith: all have either benefitted or improved this season because they play in offenses tailored to their strengths as quick-read or dual-threat quarterbacks.*

 

 

 

Read-options, run-pass options, zone-reads, play-action, pre-snap motion—these are the tools smart coaches are using to overcome the traditional deficiencies that have crept into the NFL because of the proliferation of spread offenses at the game’s lower levels. Then there is the paleozoic stubbornness of Bills head coach Sean McDermott and offensive coordinator Rick Dennison, who have insisted on making Taylor something he’s not, only to fault Taylor the moment things began to go south after a surprising 5-2 start.

 

 

Not a misreading. In the very beginning it's pointing out an approach by McDermott and Dennison that the article views as "palezoic stubbornness."

 

Love the phrasing because that's pretty much what it is.

 

 

 

Look again, I didn't say "a misreading," I said, "misreadings." And for good reason. That article is packed with them. Not to mention consistently contradicting in one part of the article what he says in another. It was a very bizarre article, shooting at around 12 targets and not really hitting anything because of it.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Thurman#1

[transplantbillsfan]

4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Oh, please. Nobody - absolutely nobody - has been saying that our offensive issues are totally Tyrod's problems. As usual people with weak arguments imagine arguments that nobody has made and then knock down those completely imaginary arguments. Everyone's aware of our issues at RT, concerns at RG, and it goes on.

 

But yeah, Tyrod's problems are a large part of the problem.

 

And this decision by McDermott will be a molehill by the time he leaves here, whether he's been successful or not.

 

Look again, I didn't say "a misreading," I said, "misreadings." And for good reason. That article is packed with them. Not to mention consistently contradicting in one article what he says in another. It was a very bizarre article, shooting at around 12 targets and not really hitting anything because of it.

 

Whatever you say Thurm.

 

Typical approach by you.

 

Avoid actual discussion by sticking with weird semantics.

 

 

Ready to talk yet about how improved Taylor is over the intermediate middle portion of the field yet?

[Thurman#1]

9 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Whatever you say Thurm.

 

Typical approach by you.

 

Avoid actual discussion by sticking with weird semantics.

 

 

Ready to talk yet about how improved Taylor is over the intermediate middle portion of the field yet?

 

 

That's a very untypical post by you. Completely and absolutely avoiding any substance whatsoever. Nice Job of saying absolutely nothing. Unusual as you usually bring up some irrelevant statistic and lead the argument off into left field. Didn't even bother with that this time.

 

As for the "intermediate middle portion", nope, I'm ready to talk - as always - about the deep and intermediate middle third. The area he throws less often to. I get that you generally don't want to talk about this exact thing. And I get why. With you it's always part of it or an area near it or whatever. But that's the area where Tyrod has always had issues. 

 

It was good to see Tyrod throwing  to the deep middle, by the way, last week. Threw there two times, bringing his numbers up to three attempts there in the whole season. And zero completions. 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

On 11/25/2017 at 4:06 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Ummm... what??? A misreading?

 

Anyone who still thinks the Bills were correct to bench Tyrod Taylor for the Nathan Peterman Turnover Loop yesterday need only look around the league. Jared Goff, Deshaun Watson, Carson Wentz, Alex Smith: all have either benefitted or improved this season because they play in offenses tailored to their strengths as quick-read or dual-threat quarterbacks.*

 

 

 

Read-options, run-pass options, zone-reads, play-action, pre-snap motion—these are the tools smart coaches are using to overcome the traditional deficiencies that have crept into the NFL because of the proliferation of spread offenses at the game’s lower levels. Then there is the paleozoic stubbornness of Bills head coach Sean McDermott and offensive coordinator Rick Dennison, who have insisted on making Taylor something he’s not, only to fault Taylor the moment things began to go south after a surprising 5-2 start.

 

 

Not a misreading. In the very beginning it's pointing out an approach by McDermott and Dennison that the article views as "palezoic stubbornness."

 

Love the phrasing because that's pretty much what it is.

 

 

Oh, wait, the paleozoic stubbornness you love so much is exactly one of those contradictions. 

 

In one place in the article it claims not changing the offense to maximize Tyrod shows he's not behind Tyrod. And in another it's paleozoic stubbornness. Exactly. Shooting at a million targets and not hitting anything. Thanks for the great example.

 

From the beginning they've said they needed a guy to be successful from the pocket. Tyrod knew this when he re-signed here. And Tyrod's boyband-fanlike fanboys should have known it too. McD gave him a chance to be the guy they want and he hasn't succeeded. 

 

As for those other QBs, of course they're building around Wentz. He's the QB this regime brought in. He likely fitted their own coaching ideas. Same with Watson. This regime drafted him. Andy Reid brought in Alex Smith. Of course those coaches had schemes that were friendly for that QB. They're the coaches who brought in that QB. The one exception of your examples is Goff, and McVay was brought in specifically to build around Goff and make him effective.

 

The Pegulas didn't bring McD in saying, "Build around Tyrod." I'm sure you and yours would have loved that but that's not even close to what they said. They just wanted the Carolina boys to build a winner down the line. 

 

Expecting them to treat Tyrod the way those three first round guys - one rookie and two second-year guys - and one guy (Smith) with a lot of playoff experience were treated shows a misunderstanding by you and by the article of what McDermott has said from the beginning. Again, he said to play for him a QB had to be successful from the pocket. Expecting him then to scheme around Tyrod misses the point and their direction.

 

 

On 11/24/2017 at 6:01 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Last season they were 7th in the NFL in scoring and had the fewest turnovers by an NFL team thru 15 games since the merger........and scored 28 points on average in wins......a very healthy margin of victory......not narrow defensive victories.

 

There have been MANY factors relating to their offensive woes this year and Tyrod is the least of them.

 

Poor coaching on many levels......poor offensive design.......poor play calls.......game-tighteningly conservative calls in numerous games.....and then major matchup issues outside the hashes......no depth at RB.......woeful pass protection. 

 

 

 

 

 

He hasn't been the least of them. He has been a major factor.

 

And last year they were the 16th ranked offense. Yeah, the Bills ranked higher than that in scoring but scoring is a team stat. Yeah the offense counts for the highest portion, but scoring is done by defense and STs as well, and field positions is huge in terms of how likely the offense is to score. The defense last year put the offense in really good field position a lot (10th best average offensive drive start). While the defense was put in bad field position by the offense a lot (23rd best defensive). 

 

And in spite of that, the run game last year was really terrific, but the pass game was poor, just like this year.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Thurman#1

[transplantbillsfan]

14 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That's a very untypical post by you. Completely and absolutely avoiding any substance whatsoever. Nice Job of saying absolutely nothing. Unusual as you usually bring up some irrelevant statistic and lead the argument off into left field. Didn't even bother with that this time.

 

As for the "intermediate middle portion", nope, I'm ready to talk - as always - about the deep and intermediate middle third. The area he throws less often to. I get that you generally don't want to talk about this exact thing. And I get why. With you it's always part of it or an area near it or whatever. But that's the area where Tyrod has always had issues. 

 

It was good to see Tyrod throwing  to the deep middle, by the way, last week. Threw there two times, bringing his numbers up to three attempts there in the whole season. And zero completions. 

 

 

 

I didn't respond to everything because why bother if you're just playing a rhetorical game rather than actually talking football?

 

As for deep and intermediate, why do you still lump the 2 together?

 

Honestly, it's a weird stubborn obsession you have doing that.

 

Intermediate middle is no longer a problem. 

 

And that was the biggest legitimate worry because the vaaAAAaaaassst majority of NFL throws are less than 20 yards and the chain moving money maker throws are those 10-20 yard throws. And the most difficult ones are that middle portion less than 20 yards where you're dealing with all the traffic.

 

He has a passer rating above 143 throwing there (league average is low 80s) and he's thrown almost 20 passes, 2 TDs and zero interceptions to the intermediate middle portion of the field.

 

That's A LOT more than the last couple years.

 

He improved from 2015 to 2016 but his leap from 2016 to 2017 is noticeable and significant.

 

As for the deep middle. It still doesn't matter, but 

 

Taylor's thrown 1.1% of his passes there.

 

Russell Wilson's thrown 2.1% of his passes there.

 

Whoopdy doooo

 

 

 

[Dablitzkrieg]

Hopefully Tyrod shuts us all up in about 10 hours and leads this team to a win

[Gigs]

Tbh, the Bills hired Ned Flanders to coach. Ned is a man of God and God doesn’t take risks; neither does he.

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I didn't respond to everything because why bother if you're just playing a rhetorical game rather than actually talking football?

 

As for deep and intermediate, why do you still lump the 2 together?

 

Honestly, it's a weird stubborn obsession you have doing that.

 

Intermediate middle is no longer a problem. 

 

And that was the biggest legitimate worry because the vaaAAAaaaassst majority of NFL throws are less than 20 yards and the chain moving money maker throws are those 10-20 yard throws. And the most difficult ones are that middle portion less than 20 yards where you're dealing with all the traffic.

 

He has a passer rating above 143 throwing there (league average is low 80s) and he's thrown almost 20 passes, 2 TDs and zero interceptions to the intermediate middle portion of the field.

 

That's A LOT more than the last couple years.

 

He improved from 2015 to 2016 but his leap from 2016 to 2017 is noticeable and significant.

 

As for the deep middle. It still doesn't matter, but 

 

Taylor's thrown 1.1% of his passes there.

 

Russell Wilson's thrown 2.1% of his passes there.

 

Whoopdy doooo

 

 

 

 

 

The whoopdy doo is that Wilson is also one of the lowest QBs in the league at throwing there and he still throws there nearly twice as often as Tyrod does. And by the way, has Wilson got any completions there? Or is he 0 for 3 like Tyrod is? Through three games, Tyrod had thrown one pass there, incomplete. Never threw another till last week when he threw two, both incomplete. Most of the rest of the league are weil above than and it's very likely that there isn't another starter in the league who's thrown there as low a number of times or as low a percentage of times. Even safer to say that about completions there, what with Tyrod having zero.

 

Pretty funny to compare Wilson to Tyrod in that zone, and funny that you used passer rating to talk about the intermediate zone but not the deep one. Wonder why that is? Oh, possibly it's because while he was throwing there twice as often Wilson came up with a 100.3 passer rating while Tyrod had a 39.6. Wait, is it possible to get a passer rating lower than that? Passer ratings are pretty random on small samples like this? Yeah, exactly my point. Especially if the samples are, you know, smaller than the rest of the league.

 

And thinking that 1.1% is the key number is flat-out dumb. Deep throws are extremely important. They get chunk plays far more often than short, intermediate or behind the line throws. Yeah, the majority of all throws are within ten yards or behind the line. Doesn't mean the longer balls aren't important. They are. They back safeties up which helps with the short pass game and the run game as well. Give a defense a tendency that obvious - that they don't have to worry about a very large segment of the field, and they'll use it. They'll edge guys in the deep middle up to fight the run game and over to help on the sidelines. The important number is how many of his deep balls are to the deep middle. Tyrod probably is the single most predictable QB in this, and that gives the defense an advantage.

 

As for why I still link the deep and intermediate middle third together, I get that you seem to feel this is like rocket science. But it ain't. I link them together because he has a history of not throwing often to either.  Again, makes him easier to predict and the Bills easier to defense.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Billsfan1972]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Oh, wait, the paleozoic stubbornness you love so much is exactly one of those contradictions. 

 

In one place in the article it claims not changing the offense to maximize Tyrod shows he's not behind Tyrod. And in another it's paleozoic stubbornness. Exactly. Shooting at a million targets and not hitting anything. Thanks for the great example.

 

From the beginning they've said they needed a guy to be successful from the pocket. Tyrod knew this when he re-signed here. And Tyrod's boyband-fanlike fanboys should have known it too. McD gave him a chance to be the guy they want and he hasn't succeeded. 

 

As for those other QBs, of course they're building around Wentz. He's the QB this regime brought in. He likely fitted their own coaching ideas. Same with Watson. This regime drafted him. Andy Reid brought in Alex Smith. Of course those coaches had schemes that were friendly for that QB. They're the coaches who brought in that QB. The one exception of your examples is Goff, and McVay was brought in specifically to build around Goff and make him effective.

 

The Pegulas didn't bring McD in saying, "Build around Tyrod." I'm sure you and yours would have loved that but that's not even close to what they said. They just wanted the Carolina boys to build a winner down the line. 

 

Expecting them to treat Tyrod the way those three first round guys - one rookie and two second-year guys - and one guy (Smith) with a lot of playoff experience were treated shows a misunderstanding by you and by the article of what McDermott has said from the beginning. Again, he said to play for him a QB had to be successful from the pocket. Expecting him then to scheme around Tyrod misses the point and their direction.

 

 

 

 

He hasn't been the least of them. He has been a major factor.

 

And last year they were the 16th ranked offense. Yeah, the Bills ranked higher than that in scoring but scoring is a team stat. Yeah the offense counts for the highest portion, but scoring is done by defense and STs as well, and field positions is huge in terms of how likely the offense is to score. The defense last year put the offense in really good field position a lot (10th best average offensive drive start). While the defense was put in bad field position by the offense a lot (23rd best defensive). 

 

And in spite of that, the run game last year was really terrific, but the pass game was poor, just like this year.

You adapt to the players strengths, not your antiquated schemes.  Did the Offense try and make Shady a power RB, Matthews a speed wr to stretch the field?  No, but Tyrod a pocket passer.....   This coaching staff is a joke the way they treated the offense (and now too the defense).  Watch Goff and if you look close, you'll see right now a good (not great qb) who is succeeding due to great offensive playcalling.  Wentz just has a great team behind him and looks outstanding and Watson is a great leader & athletic.  

 

We saw that great Offense that Dennison implemented with his QB vs. LAC get embarrassed last week. The egg on the coaching staffs' faces was well deserved.

 

There is from what I can tell almost no Tyrod Fanboys (as opposed to Petermaniacs who wanted him named the starter out of training camp).  There are many however who want to see Tyrod given the weapons and playcalling to se if he can throw for 300 and score 30+ points.

 

I seemed quite obvious vs. LAC that the coaching staff were going out of their way to prove just how smart they were and calling plays that would have had Peterman throwing for 300 yards and 30+ points and being vindicated.......  

 

How did that work out????

Edited November 26, 2017 by Billsfan1972

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The whoopdy doo is that Wilson is also one of the lowest QBs in the league at throwing there and he still throws there nearly twice as often as Tyrod does. And by the way, has Wilson got any completions there? Or is he 0 for 3 like Tyrod is? Through three games, Tyrod had thrown one pass there, incomplete. Never threw another till last week when he threw two, both incomplete. Most of the rest of the league are weil above than and it's very likely that there isn't another starter in the league who's thrown there as low a number of times or as low a percentage of times. Even safer to say that about completions there, what with Tyrod having zero.

 

Pretty funny to compare Wilson to Tyrod in that zone, and funny that you used passer rating to talk about the intermediate zone but not the deep one. Wonder why that is? Oh, possibly it's because while he was throwing there twice as often Wilson came up with a 100.3 passer rating while Tyrod had a 39.6. Wait, is it possible to get a passer rating lower than that? Passer ratings are pretty random on small samples like this? Yeah, exactly my point. Especially if the samples are, you know, smaller than the rest of the league.

 

And thinking that 1.1% is the key number is flat-out dumb. Deep throws are extremely important. They get chunk plays far more often than short, intermediate or behind the line throws. Yeah, the majority of all throws are within ten yards or behind the line. Doesn't mean the longer balls aren't important. They are. They back safeties up which helps with the short pass game and the run game as well. Give a defense a tendency that obvious - that they don't have to worry about a very large segment of the field, and they'll use it. They'll edge guys in the deep middle up to fight the run game and over to help on the sidelines. The important number is how many of his deep balls are to the deep middle. Tyrod probably is the single most predictable QB in this, and that gives the defense an advantage.

 

As for why I still link the deep and intermediate middle third together, I get that you seem to feel this is like rocket science. But it ain't. I link them together because he has a history of not throwing often to either.  Again, makes him easier to predict and the Bills easier to defense.

 

It's too bad you just keep on shifting your argument Thurm. It's like you're chasing your own tail or something.

 

We've had this conversation enough where it's pretty easy to remember that it was always about frequency throwing to the deep middle. It was frequency that you stressed. And suddenly  as you see that Taylor is comparable to one of the better NFL QBs (and question, what are the numbers of all of the other NFL QBs to the deep middle if you're saying Wilson throws there less than most? Have you done the work? Can't wait to read it!) you suddenly bring in how ineffective he is.

 

And you say you lump the two together because Taylor has a history of both. Well as far as the intermediate middle goes, he's been improving on it since his first year as a starter and is significantly improved right now. And he throws their relatively frequently and incredibly effectively.

 

So you talk your bubbles about the deep middle, leave the poor now innocent intermediate middle out of it