Blame Dennison if You Want, But it's Not the System

[Maine-iac]

Every Roman offense  has been better at scoring points than just about any offense Dennison has put on the field.  Roman had one bad year.  Every year other than that he's put up point totals that beat Dennison and it's net even close really and he did it with less talent.  In a best case scenario Dennison will get us to 22 or 23 ppg game but given he could barely do that with Peyton Manning I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Spiderweb]

With Dennison calling the offensive shots and the line play we get under Castillo... Bad things man, bad things (and not in a good way obviously). 

[ColoradoBills]

5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It doesn’t matter what system it is if defenses keep Taylor in the pocket.

 

This is why you can't compare last year's offense to this years.

Defenses have figured out how to stop TT.

 

The countermeasure to this is to throw the ball down field.

TT just won't do it enough.

[Happy]

10 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

With Dennison calling the offensive shots and the line play we get under Castillo... Bad things man, bad things (and not in a good way obviously). 

Exactly.  Everyone is rightfully piling on Dennison.  What isn't getting enough attention is the poor job Castillo is doing with the OL and run game, and Shady is paying the price.

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Exactly.  Everyone is rightfully piling on Dennison.  What isn't getting enough attention is the poor job Castillo is doing with the OL and run game, and Shady is paying the price.

 

Both need to go this offseason. And frankly, if we're serious about developing a young QB, David Cully should be replaced too.

[Happy]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Both need to go this offseason. And frankly, if we're serious about developing a young QB, David Cully should be replaced too.

I don't know enough about him, but I'll take your word for it.

[DrDawkinstein]

16 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I don't know enough about him, but I'll take your word for it.

 

All I know is he's been basically a lifelong WR coach. So that gives us a Defensive-based HC, Dennison a TE player and lifelong running game OC, and a WR coach pretending to be QB coach.

 

Compared to the environments guys like Dak Prescott and Carson Wentz went to. Where their HCs, OCs, and QB coaches were ALL former NFL QBs.

 

I get that it doesnt HAVE to be like that. Bill O'Brien is known as a QB guy and he was a LB, but he has also learned from the best (Belichick/Brady).

 

I just want the Bills franchise to finally focus on the QB position, and help put whatever young QB we have in a position to succeed.

 

Maybe bring in Frank Reich as OC/AsstHC? He's done well in Philly.

[Happy]

16 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Maybe bring in Frank Reich as OC/AsstHC? He's done well in Philly.

I see what you're getting at, thanks for the reply...it makes sense.

 

Frank Reich has a good history here and maybe open to it; only problem is he is not a McDermott guy.  But he has to be better than Dennison.  Or Peyton Manning, that would be good.  One can dream 

[YoloinOhio]

On 11/12/2017 at 7:39 PM, H2o said:

The offense has struggled, but I don't believe it's Dennison or the system's fault. His system has been successful in multiple places. He learned under Shanahan and Kubiak spending time with Denver, Houston, a stop in Baltimore as a QB coach, and then back to Denver before coming here. 

 

The OL on the right side was never fixed. They blow up that side of the line every time. Then, because of the right side, they key on the left putting an extra defender or two. The holes for McCoy are nonexistent. The rushing game is not clicking because they can't block anyone in front of them. Terrible OL play. 

 

We have all seen Tyrod. Most of us knew what he was while others pounded the table for him. He is not the guy. He still exhibits the same deficiencies that he has the last two years. He's a good guy, a hard worker, by all accounts a great teammate, and a decent game manager. He will never be a guy who carries a team with his arm. Peterman should at least be given the month of December to show what he's got. If he looks good then so be it. If not, we HAVE to identify our QB in the draft then make our move. 

 

The WR talent is now there with Matthews, Benjamin, Jones, Thompson, Holmes, and Clay (when healthy). We have guys who have and can be productive. This again falls on the QB and the OL. The OL has to give the QB time to throw and the QB has to be able to read a defense then deliver an on time ball to the right guy. 

 

Dennison's system is mainly short to intermediate timing routes with some deep passes mixed in off of play action. The emphasis is on an accurate QB who gets the ball out on time. A lot of times that QB is having to throw the ball to an opening where his guy will be, not waiting until your guy is open to throw it. None of these are strengths for Taylor. If the holes get filled the system will work. 

 

We all got our hopes up when we won a few. Now everyone is looking for a place to lay the blame. Blame who you want, but I don't see this as Dennison's failure. He does what he can to try to cover up Tyrod's weaknesses, but with 3 years of tape it's damn near impossible. 

You called it - it just happened a couple weeks early 

[dave mcbride]

I don't care what Dennison's pedigree is; he doesn't call a good game. I also suspect that he has more than little of Curtis Modkins (central/mountain zone edition) in him. Those weren't his offenses in Houston and Denver.

[Real McClappy]

Now over the next few weeks we will see what the deal is.

[H2o]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

You called it - it just happened a couple weeks early 

Hopefully we can all see how the system is supposed to run now. A QB who can read a defense, get a ball out quickly, and pick a defense apart will help the OL as well as the run game. I am expecting good things tbh. Hopefully Peterman shows well and we can address other obvious needs with our draft picks in 2018.  

[JM57]

6 minutes ago, H2o said:

Hopefully we can all see how the system is supposed to run now. A QB who can read a defense, get a ball out quickly, and pick a defense apart will help the OL as well as the run game. I am expecting good things tbh. Hopefully Peterman shows well and we can address other obvious needs with our draft picks in 2018.  

Why would you expect good things? When was the last time this offense, the Kubiak/Dennison offense, was any good? 

 

It was 2012, the year before Matt Schaub fell off a cliff and forgot how to throw to his own team. The scheme is dated. The coordinator is unqualified. It will never be anything more than average IF they get a very good QB to put into it. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by JM57

[H2o]

16 minutes ago, JM57 said:

Why would you expect good things? When was the last time this offense, the Kubiak/Dennison offense, was any good? 

 

It was 2012, the year before Matt Schaub fell off a cliff and forgot how to throw to his own team. The scheme is dated. The coordinator is unqualified. It will never be anything more than average IF they get a very good QB to put into it. 

The younger Shanahan, who runs the same system, seems to do fairly well with it.  There are many who run the same offense in principle. There may be variations and tweaks according to the coordinator, but it's still just as successful today when executed properly. The problem is the level of QB's in this league being produced by the college ranks. Watch Peterman the next 7 weeks and you will accurately be able to judge whether it is Dennison or if it was Tyrod. 

[JM57]

7 minutes ago, H2o said:

The younger Shanahan, who runs the same system, seems to do fairly well with it.  There are many who run the same offense in principle. There may be variations and tweaks according to the coordinator, but it's still just as successful today when executed properly. The problem is the level of QB's in this league being produced by the college ranks. Watch Peterman the next 7 weeks and you will accurately be able to judge whether it is Dennison or if it was Tyrod. 

Kyle runs his dad's offense with about 100 wrinkles added in. That is part of the reason it is so effective. It's not stale, it's complex and ever-changing. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/02/01/kyle-shanahans-offense-borrows-from-his-mentors-but-is-entirely-his-own/

 

Dennison has what seems to be a much more rudimentary form of the offense. Very little shotgun. Very little, if any, RPO concepts or pistol formation. Despite it being something that would have helped Tyrod, he did not roll or bootleg him out very frequently. Kyle Shanahan is playing 4D chess and Offensive Jauron is playing checkers. You will have a tough time convincing me that someone who has been coaching in the league for TWENTY years without ever being a play caller on his own has any idea what he's doing.

Edited November 16, 2017 by JM57

[H2o]

Just now, JM57 said:

Kyle runs his dad's offense with about 100 wrinkles added in. That is part of the reason it is so effective. It's.Not stale, it's complex and ever-changing. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/02/01/kyle-shanahans-offense-borrows-from-his-mentors-but-is-entirely-his-own/

 

Dennison has what seems to be a much more rudimentary form of the offense. Very little shotgun. Very little, if any, RPO concepts or pistol formation. Despite it being something that would have helped Tyrod, he did not roll or bootleg him out very frequently. Kyle Shanahan is playing 4D chess and Offensive Jauron is playing checkers. 

You do realize that he has been dumbing down the offense for Tyrod, right? When you have a mentally limited QB then you can't expand things the way you want. Tyrod doesn't throw guys open, he doesn't anticipate, I would bet the farm a lot his check downs should have been thrown elsewhere, he still struggles reading defenses, and none of us truly know who is the primary target on each play. Rolling him out or bootlegs take away half if the field to begin with, but it still doesn't fix his eyes or his timing. You will see over the next 7 weeks. 

[JM57]

3 minutes ago, H2o said:

You do realize that he has been dumbing down the offense for Tyrod, right? When you have a mentally limited QB then you can't expand things the way you want. Tyrod doesn't throw guys open, he doesn't anticipate, I would bet the farm a lot his check downs should have been thrown elsewhere, he still struggles reading defenses, and none of us truly know who is the primary target on each play. Rolling him out or bootlegs take away half if the field to begin with, but it still doesn't fix his eyes or his timing. You will see over the next 7 weeks. 

Ok, let's say he was dumbing it down for Tyrod. What was his excuse for the years of poor performance in Denver? Were he and Kubiak dumbing it down for Peyton Manning too? The scheme has one function: ball control. That alone cannot win you games in the NFL in 2017.

 

Peterman might make more quicker throws and deliver more consistency. We might see less three and outs. But this scheme and this coordinator are completely underwhelming. It will never be good, let alone great. It will be average, at very best.

[H2o]

16 minutes ago, JM57 said:

Ok, let's say he was dumbing it down for Tyrod. What was his excuse for the years of poor performance in Denver? Were he and Kubiak dumbing it down for Peyton Manning too? The scheme has one function: ball control. That alone cannot win you games in the NFL in 2017.

 

Peterman might make more quicker throws and deliver more consistency. We might see less three and outs. But this scheme and this coordinator are completely underwhelming. It will never be good, let alone great. It will be average, at very best.

Peyton's shelf life had expired and we all see what Osweiller is. They had success in Denver with Jake Plummer and Jay Cutler while under Shanahan. Like I said before, Schaub was playing like a Pro Bowl QB before he became color blind and forgot who his team was. You give him an accurate QB, who can read a defense then deliver an on time ball, to the right guy, and you will see the system or the play calling was not the problem. It was the person executing the play call. 

[JM57]

14 minutes ago, H2o said:

Peyton's shelf life had expired and we all see what Osweiller is. They had success in Denver with Jake Plummer and Jay Cutler while under Shanahan. Like I said before, Schaub was playing like a Pro Bowl QB before he became color blind and forgot who his team was. You give him an accurate QB, who can read a defense then deliver an on time ball, to the right guy, and you will see the system or the play calling was not the problem. It was the person executing the play call. 

You are talking about offenses 6 years ago or more. You cannot run the same thing with no changes to it for that long and expect it to be successful. There has to be new concepts added. The game is always changing. This offense is STALE, boring and predictable. I keep saying it. It CAN be average, but that's all it can be. Dennison doesn't have the chops to run a scheme like Kyle Shanahan. He just keeps running what he knows. 

[H2o]

1 hour ago, JM57 said:

You are talking about offenses 6 years ago or more. You cannot run the same thing with no changes to it for that long and expect it to be successful. There has to be new concepts added. The game is always changing. This offense is STALE, boring and predictable. I keep saying it. It CAN be average, but that's all it can be. Dennison doesn't have the chops to run a scheme like Kyle Shanahan. He just keeps running what he knows. 

And again, I will say what you have been seeing is an offense run with an extremely limited (mentally) QB. Tyrod is a gifted athlete, but not the QB that some people try to make him out to be. Stats don't tell the whole story. Just because of all of this QB Rating and QBR bs, or because of him not throwing many INT's, some fans and analysts puff him up to be something he's not. You see it every week. He leaves plays all over the field in the passing game. Give me a guy who makes those anticipatory throws and THEN we can see what the offense truly looks like. Until then it's like trying to critique a one legged man in a a** kicking contest.