transplantbillsfan Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) For the record, I understand your argument, I just think it's over simplistic, revisionist and just not satisfactory. 2016 Teams with head coaches with offensive backgrounds had 35.8 pass attempts. Teams with head coaches with defensive backgrounds had 32.9 pass attempts. Why do you assume a conservative, run-first offense is what McDermott wants? It doesn't occur to you that he knows a run-first offense is his only choice right now considering the limitations of the quarterback? Because historically that's what defensive coaches want, see the last 2 years as examples of that trend Edited November 2, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 2016 Teams with head coaches with offensive backgrounds had 35.8 pass attempts. Teams with head coaches with defensive backgrounds had 32.9 pass attempts. Because historically that's what defensive coaches want, see the last 2 years as examples of that trend That pesky causality again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 2016 Teams with head coaches with offensive backgrounds had 35.8 pass attempts. Teams with head coaches with defensive backgrounds had 32.9 pass attempts. Because historically that's what defensive coaches want, see the last 2 years as examples of that trend I really cant believe youre trying to make this point as though its just that simple. Youre a guy that loves context and yet youre taking a simple number and blindly trying to come to a conclusion as if you can speak for all the defensive HCs in the league. Youre better than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I really cant believe youre trying to make this point as though its just that simple. Youre a guy that loves context and yet youre taking a simple number and blindly trying to come to a conclusion as if you can speak for all the defensive HCs in the league. Youre better than this. Is it any more reasonable to look at Tyrods pass attempts and make a conclusion about how our coaches feel about him based on that? How I see it is transplant is taking that logic (or lack thereof) and looking at it from another perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Is it any more reasonable to look at Tyrods pass attempts and make a conclusion about how our coaches feel about him based on that? How I see it is transplant is taking that logic (or lack thereof) and looking at it from another perspective. No, hes just being stubborn and foolish. Its reasonable to speculate whether our low pass attempts is because of Tyrods limitations as a passer. Its foolish to try and say definitively that all defensive head coaches think a specific way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Because historically that's what defensive coaches want, see the last 2 years as examples of that trend While I agree that is certainly a trend and not a fluke I slightly question the link you are making on reasoning. I'd suggest HCs with defensive backgrounds usually field defensively superior teams. Those couple of extra throws a game can easily be put down to a team chasing a game because their D sucks as opposed to an idealistic aversion from defensive minded HCs not to throw. That isn't to say it undermines your general point - defensive minded HCs throw less.... but I think you have to ask the real reasons why that is and there are a multitude of factors beyond just "they don't want to." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 No, hes just being stubborn and foolish. Its reasonable to speculate whether our low pass attempts is because of Tyrods limitations as a passer. Its foolish to try and say definitively that all defensive head coaches think a specific way. So its okay to wonder if pass attempts have something to do with the QBs ability, but not if they have something to do with the coachs philosophy? That makes no sense. The whole pass attempts thing is so dumb. We have Shady McCoy, a mobile QB, a defensive HC, and we play in a city known for bad weather. If we had an elite QB sure wed pass the ball a lot but we also wouldnt be paying Shady if we had an elite QB so the point is moot. You cant separate one factor from the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 So its okay to wonder if pass attempts have something to do with the QBs ability, but not if they have something to do with the coachs philosophy? That makes no sense. Thats not what I said so if it doesnt make sense then its on you. Transplant is trying to definitively say what all the defensive HCs think and want which was what I was pointing out. The whole pass attempts thing is so dumb. We have Shady McCoy, a mobile QB, a defensive HC, and we play in a city known for bad weather. If we had an elite QB sure wed pass the ball a lot but we also wouldnt be paying Shady if we had an elite QB so the point is moot. You cant separate one factor from the other. Are you just arguing a point that I never made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grb Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) No, hes just being stubborn and foolish. Its reasonable to speculate whether our low pass attempts is because of Tyrods limitations as a passer. Its foolish to try and say definitively that all defensive head coaches think a specific way. On the other hand, it's historical to say the Bills were committed to a heavy-run low-volume passing attack before Taylor ever signed - and as a camp body not expected to compete as a starter (to continue the history lesson). If you're claiming the team's run-first philosophy consistent over these past years is because of Taylor's limitations, I'd think it relevant and reasonable to note the Bills incessantly talked about just such a offensive scheme while TT was still living two states away. With our history, a story : Over at Rumbling there's a hard-core hater with the moniker BD-something-or-another. I swear Tyrod must have stole his woman, keyed his car, and kicked his dog for all the venom he's spewed on the QB. Well one day this guy announces (with his usual seething rage) that he plans to quantitatively prove how bad Taylor is when forced to pass - when TT has to put up big numbers of attempts. His next appearance was strangely muted because - it seems - the numbers said the exact opposite. Bless his heart - he's a grouchy curmudgeon but an honest one. There has never been any evidence Taylor can't perform equally well with 20, 25, 30, 35 attempts. People assume there must be but ..... sorry ..... there just isn't Edited November 2, 2017 by grb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 5 teams in the top 10 in pass attempts this year have HCs with defensive backgrounds. For the record, I dont think its as simple as youre saying. Just saying. Be gentile. No, 3. You're talking pass attempts per game, right? https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/pass-attempts-per-game Only NE at 4, Seattle at 8 and Denver at 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 No, 3. You're talking pass attempts per game, right? https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/pass-attempts-per-game Only NE at 4, Seattle at 8 and Denver at 10 No, Im taking about total pass attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 No, Im taking about total pass attempts. So you want to penalize teams that have had a bye versus teams that haven't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 No, Im taking about total pass attempts. Well that's a misleading stat considering some teams have played 7 games and some have played 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 On the other hand, it's historical to say the Bills were committed to a heavy-run low-volume passing attack before Taylor ever signed - and as a camp body not expected to compete as a starter (to continue the history lesson). If you're claiming the team's run-first philosophy consistent over these past years is because of Taylor's limitations, I'd think it relevant and reasonable to note the Bills incessantly talked about just such a offensive scheme while TT was still living two states away. With our history, a story : Over at Rumbling there's a hard-core hater with the moniker BD-something-or-another. I swear Tyrod must have stole his woman, keyed his car, and kicked his dog for all the venom he's spewed on the QB. Well one day this guy announces (with his usual seething rage) that he plans to quantitatively prove how bad Taylor is when forced to pass - when TT has to put up big numbers of attempts. His next appearance was strangely muted because - it seems - the numbers said the exact opposite. Bless his heart - he's a grouchy curmudgeon but an honest one. There has never been any evidence Taylor can't perform equally well with 20, 25, 30, 35 attempts. People assume there must be but ..... sorry ..... there just isn't I won't dispute that they wanted to be a run first team the last 3 years because of McCoy. It's logical. However, the passing volume or lack thereof since Taylor has been QB is stark to put it mildly. 2010: 19th in pass attempt per game 2011:10th 2012: 23rd 2013: 24th 2014: 13th Not a pass-heavy unit by any means, but nothing off the charts outside the realm of average. For whatever reason. Then, post-Taylor... 2015: 31st 2016: 32nd 2017: 32nd I'm of the opinion it has as much if not more to do with McCoy than Taylor, but to pretend that our passing game isn't limited by Taylor's particular skillset isn't reality. I'm not saying he can't or won't improve to the point where we'd be approaching the mean as far as production goes, although I think it's unlikely at this point. And it may not matter, because if they can continue to win with low production out of the passing game nobody (least of all me) will care. I just doubt you can, season to season, consistently field the most competitive team possible with such a glaringly underutilized passing attack. I guess we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Im sorry but how does averages per game change significantly based on the number of games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Im sorry but how does averages per game change significantly based on the number of games? People can't math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugashane69 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Yes...TT is a better than average QB. Give him weapons. That's all to be said! 👏👏👏 Get him weapons and some defense help to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Jax Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 TO answer the OP: No, the Bills will be better off with a real QB. Anybody with eyesight who watches the games would surely have to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts