This offseason Quarterback options

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I still love Brees (most underrated player of this generation).

as do I

but I won't let my love for him fool me. I'd go for a 1 year deal or 2 year deal if he was willing to go with a run first scheme

[JohnC]

Yes, John selecting a QB that turned out good is always a good idea. Carr had 3 QBs go ahead of him and Dak had 7 before him. You can always cherry pick a successful QB and say that we should have taken that guy. That is, and continues to be, an incredibly weak argument based entirely with the benefit of hindsight. You cant just pick the best guy out of a group and say, we could have had him. We could have had Kessler, Cook or Hackenberg too.

 

Thats why a good QB class is important. Its a numbers game. If the class is deeper, in theory, the gap between the 3rd and 4th QB is much smaller than the gap from Dak to Sackenberg. The 2018 class was thought to have up to 7 QBs in round 1!! Thats not like the EJ draft. It may not end up as good as originally thought but the level of talent is still higher than most. The odds (very important word there) are better of hitting when the talent is deeper. Its all a crap shoot. We dont know how a guy will play until he plays so we have to use the information that we have prior to him playing to anticipate.

Watson and Mahomes were available for a team that hasn't had a franchise qb in a long time. The three teams that took the top three qbs all made deals to move up to get qbs. We traded down to get another first round pick from a team whose pick will be near the bottom of the round. You are now making an assumption that in the next draft that the Bills are going to use a high pick on a qb. I'm strongly for it but not fully confident that this organization will do so.

 

I'm not a believer that any one qb, except a generational type qb, is going to lead a team to the promised land. So waiting for that perfect scenario is a wishful thought that will rarely materialize. I'm a believer that a good franchise qb with a well rounded roster is the right approach to take.

 

You keep pointing out that I am cherry picking in hindsight. No, I'm not. What I have been consistently saying is that when a franchise has not had a franchise qb for a quarter century it can't take a passive approach toward that position. If you miss on your selection then try again. You act as if the franchise is going to be crippled for a generation by making a selection that doesn't work out. To that timid and cautionary approach I say it will not. Just get back to it and do it again. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not we have had our opportunities, yet passed.

 

When Whaley was asked in an interview after he was fired what he would have done differently he without hesitation said that he wished he would have been more aggressive on addressing the qb position. Duh!!!

[mjt328]

Too many variables to consider at this point.

 

The largest being... Where are the Bills going to be drafting and which QBs might be available at that spot?

 

I definitely think Quarterback should be our biggest priority. But if the Bills win 10-11 games with Tyrod Taylor, end up with two picks in the mid/late 20s, and some of the better prospects decide not to declare eligible... then I would have a really tough time swapping all of those picks to move up. In that case, I would probably be more willing to trade down and get bargaining chips for 2019 or just use the picks on other positions.

 

Even if the Bills re-sign Jordan Matthews, WR is going to be a big need position next year. Then you have to consider that LeSean McCoy is getting up there in age and could take a step back at any time. We probably need to upgrade 1-2 spots along the O-Line, unless Dion Dawkins flashes some strong potential. Maybe Kyle Williams retires and Marcel Dareus is cut, making two giant holes on the D-Line. We need help at pretty much every Linebacker position really bad. And we could always use more depth at Cornerback, especially if EJ Gaines is not re-signed.

[SoTier]

To your credit Gunner you banged the table for Watson. He looks like a stud. At the same time, Trubisky looks lost, Kizer is worse and Mahomes hasn't taken a snap so we have no idea on him. From the sound of it the Bills are disappointed in Peterman.

 

My point is it has to be the guy not a guy. If the class is deeper the chances of the guy are greater. The depth of this class, still, IMO is greater. That holds especially true if guys come out.

Brees was old, Bridgewater bad and Jimmy G unproven

 

This is what so many posters just don't get. Drafting the wrong QB in the first round has serious long term negative consequences, most notably, missing out when "the guy" comes along. It's a lot more serious than passing on Joe Flacco or Andy Dalton. Maybe if the Bills hadn't drafted Manuel in 2013, they would have found a way to trade up to get Carson Wentz as Philly did.

[GunnerBill]

 

This is what so many posters just don't get. Drafting the wrong QB in the first round has serious long term negative consequences, most notably, missing out when "the guy" comes along. It's a lot more serious than passing on Joe Flacco or Andy Dalton. Maybe if the Bills hadn't drafted Manuel in 2013, they would have found a way to trade up to get Carson Wentz as Philly did.

 

And constantly waiting and giving guys like Losman, Edwards, Fitz, EJ even Tyrod 3 years a time to prove it while taking no shots has serious long term negative consequences too. SEVENTEEN freaking years of them.

[JaCrispy]

I actually think Peterman could totally become our Frank Reich

Totally agree....I think for the first time in a long time we finally have a solid backup

[JaCrispy]

I hear Drew Brees, Teddy Bridgewater and Jimmy Garoppolo are FA's next spring.

 

just to name a few

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/quarterback/

Luv me some Jimmy G...I wanted the bills to draft him

 

This is what so many posters just don't get. Drafting the wrong QB in the first round has serious long term negative consequences, most notably, missing out when "the guy" comes along. It's a lot more serious than passing on Joe Flacco or Andy Dalton. Maybe if the Bills hadn't drafted Manuel in 2013, they would have found a way to trade up to get Carson Wentz as Philly did.

I kind of have to disagree here...drafting the wrong QB only has long term negative consequences if the team allows it to imo...meaning, nothing held Doug Whaley back from drafting another QB after EJ except Whaley's own ego.

 

The Bills could draft a QB in the bottom half of the 1st round and if they feel, after a few years it might not have been the right choice, draft another...it really shouldn't be that big of a deal imo because teams miss on picks all the time.

Edited October 27, 2017 by JaCrispy

[26CornerBlitz]

Luv me some Jimmy G...I wanted the bills to draft him

I kind of have to disagree here...drafting the wrong QB only has long term negative consequences if the team allows it to imo...meaning, nothing held Doug Whaley back from drafting another QB after EJ except Whaley's own ego.

 

The Bills could draft a QB in the bottom half of the 1st round and if they feel, after a few years it might not have been the right choice, draft another...it really shouldn't be that big of a deal imo because teams miss on picks all the time.

 

Buddy Nix says "Hello".

[Dorkington]

Stick with Tyrod for now, draft another mid round guy. Let him develop/battle it out with Peterman, and revisit the position the following season. If either of the young guys have 'it', awesome. If not, take a QB in the first.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Dorkington

[Dragonborn10]

QB is far from the biggest need for this team going into 2018. Best case Dareus continues to play well and coaches keep him.

That allows them to address WR, RT(still unclear if Dawkins is the RT of the future), DB(Gaines will be a FA), OLB(Lorax will be gone after this year), and depth needed at S, LB, WR, and DL

We should feel lucky TT is playing so well given the lack of talent at other spots and pending FAs

[JaCrispy]

 

Buddy Nix says "Hello".

Which should have made it even easier for Whaley to move on imo...and I wasn't trying to insinuate that Whaley drafted EJ, if that is what you were alluding to- only that Whaley stuck with EJ when he didn't have to. Edited October 27, 2017 by JaCrispy

[Kelly the Dog]

There is no good way to do it and no sure way to do it. Teams that have franchise quarterbacks got those guys with a combination of good scouting/drafting/signing and an equally important boatload of luck. The Bills didn't do it wrong as much as they just didn't pick the right guy. Sure they could have drafted more quarterbacks but 90% of drafted quarterbacks fail. Nix liked Russell Wilson a lot but for some reason wanted TJ Graham more. We wanted to get Big Ben, too. 23 teams passed on Rodgers. The Cowboys wanted a different guy but someone else took him so they settled for Dak Prescott. Both Brees and Daunte Culpepper were injured when FA started and the Dolphins chose Culpepper, leaving Brees to sign with the Saints. The ways these teams got their franchise guy are all over the board.

[Kemp2Warlick]

Dean Kindig @TCBILLS_Astro

10 of TT's passes to Zay were virtually uncatchable. Plausible that Beane looks at QBs with >65% accuracy. Mayfield, Darnold, Falk, Finley, Stidham the best so far vs AP-ranked teams in 2017. #Bills #DraftTek

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[GunnerBill]

There is no good way to do it and no sure way to do it. Teams that have franchise quarterbacks got those guys with a combination of good scouting/drafting/signing and an equally important boatload of luck. The Bills didn't do it wrong as much as they just didn't pick the right guy. Sure they could have drafted more quarterbacks but 90% of drafted quarterbacks fail. Nix liked Russell Wilson a lot but for some reason wanted TJ Graham more. We wanted to get Big Ben, too. 23 teams passed on Rodgers. The Cowboys wanted a different guy but someone else took him so they settled for Dak Prescott. Both Brees and Daunte Culpepper were injured when FA started and the Dolphins chose Culpepper, leaving Brees to sign with the Saints. The ways these teams got their franchise guy are all over the board.

 

Luck (not you Andrew) plays a part. But I totally reject the notion these are 50/50 guesses that sometimes come right. Have a process, put the work in, trust that process. If your pick doesn't work out then review your process and if you still think the process was right trust it again and take another shot. I do believe that is the way this FO will approach finding a guy. That is not the way the Bills have approached the past 17 years. It has been systematic and organisational failure that has led to the not finding a Quarterback... not getting a bit unlucky with some 50/50 draft guesses.

[Kelly the Dog]

Luck (not you Andrew) plays a part. But I totally reject the notion these are 50/50 guesses that sometimes come right. Have a process, put the work in, trust that process. If your pick doesn't work out then review your process and if you still think the process was right trust it again and take another shot. I do believe that is the way this FO will approach finding a guy. That is not the way the Bills have approached the past 17 years. It has been systematic and organisational failure that has led to the not finding a Quarterback... not getting a bit unlucky with some 50/50 draft guesses.

 

People act like the Bills didn't know they needed a QB. The reason the Bills don't have playoff appearances and the reason they don't have a franchise QB are the exact same thing. They repeatedly chose the wrong guy to both run and coach the team. They had a process and all kinds of scouting and I'm sure hundreds of meetings over the years addressing it and spent a lot of resources, they just chose the wrong guy to be in charge who chose the wrong guy to the be the QB, and had bad luck as well.

[bobobonators]

Tyrod.

[SaviorPeterman]

If Taylor doesn't get this team to the playoffs the smart move is to let him go and start Peterman (who I still believe is a special talent that is going to develop into a upper echelon NFL QB)

 

But even with handing the keys to Peterman I would double down so to speak and use one of our many draft picks in the top 3 rounds on another QB in the draft, presumably without having to trade up and waste the picks we have stockpiled.

[Greybeard]

There is no good way to do it and no sure way to do it. Teams that have franchise quarterbacks got those guys with a combination of good scouting/drafting/signing and an equally important boatload of luck. The Bills didn't do it wrong as much as they just didn't pick the right guy. Sure they could have drafted more quarterbacks but 90% of drafted quarterbacks fail. Nix liked Russell Wilson a lot but for some reason wanted TJ Graham more. We wanted to get Big Ben, too. 23 teams passed on Rodgers. The Cowboys wanted a different guy but someone else took him so they settled for Dak Prescott. Both Brees and Daunte Culpepper were injured when FA started and the Dolphins chose Culpepper, leaving Brees to sign with the Saints. The ways these teams got their franchise guy are all over the board.

Good post,

 

I would argue that you can take any of the QB's that made it, let them get drafted by the Bills and the odds go way down they would still make it. For whatever reason, the Bills seem incapable of developing anyone. Oddly you can even say this of Kelly who started in the USFL.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

Dean Kindig @TCBILLS_Astro

10 of TT's passes to Zay were virtually uncatchable. Plausible that Beane looks at QBs with >65% accuracy. Mayfield, Darnold, Falk, Finley, Stidham the best so far vs AP-ranked teams in 2017. #Bills #DraftTek

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Per Rodak it was 12 of 32 that were uncatchable, making it 7 of 20.

Edited October 27, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[JohnC]

People act like the Bills didn't know they needed a QB. The reason the Bills don't have playoff appearances and the reason they don't have a franchise QB are the exact same thing. They repeatedly chose the wrong guy to both run and coach the team. They had a process and all kinds of scouting and I'm sure hundreds of meetings over the years addressing it and spent a lot of resources, they just chose the wrong guy to be in charge who chose the wrong guy to the be the QB, and had bad luck as well.

Put aside the qb position and then look at how this franchise has in general drafted. It's been mediocre. Not only that but the decisions to move up and gratuitously trade picks away for draft day maneuvers has too often not worked out well. It's very often said drafting is not an exact science. That's true. But what is evident is that some teams do it better than others.

 

After McDermott was hired he essentially brought in his own GM. Our scouting department was summarily dismissed after the draft. I'm not only not worried about this thorough cleaning out of the old guard I am celebrating these coherent organizational reconfigurations.

 

The Bills smartly have positioned themselves very well in this upcoming draft. This roster is competitive although in my view they are not a not a playoff team. In my view this roster lacks the depth required to go through the rigors of a long season. (Would love to be proven wrong.) I'm just hoping that this new regime drafts well enough to take advantage of their extra picks and give this roster a boost so that it can have some sustained success.

[SoTier]

 

And constantly waiting and giving guys like Losman, Edwards, Fitz, EJ even Tyrod 3 years a time to prove it while taking no shots has serious long term negative consequences too. SEVENTEEN freaking years of them.

 

It generally takes three years of starting to determine if a QB is good or not, primarily because on most teams the starting QB gets like 90% of the reps, and the backup gets about 90% of the rest. The third guy, on the roster or on the practice squad, gets to crumbs from the coaching staff and generally just impersonates the opposition QB. It's hard to determine how good any backup QB might be in that standard scenario. Other than Flacco in 2008, who else could the Bills have realistically drafted once they had Losman and/or Edwards???

 

Fitzpatrick was in B-lo from 2009 (started as backup) through 2012. Drafting any of the QBs other than Andy Dalton, Russell Wilson or Kirk Cousins during the time Fitzpatrick was here would have been a waste of resources.

 

Taylor joined the Bills in 2015. Like Osweiler and Garrappolo, he was really an unknown. He actually took the starting job away from Manuel and the veteran that the Bills had on the roster in 2015. Neither Jameis Winston nor Marcus Mariota were available for the Bills in 2015 but maybe the Bills could have traded up for Wentz in 2016, although like Greybeard, I'm not sure that the few QBs who were both realistically available to the Bills and who were successful would have been particularly successful with the Bills.

 

 

People act like the Bills didn't know they needed a QB. The reason the Bills don't have playoff appearances and the reason they don't have a franchise QB are the exact same thing. They repeatedly chose the wrong guy to both run and coach the team. They had a process and all kinds of scouting and I'm sure hundreds of meetings over the years addressing it and spent a lot of resources, they just chose the wrong guy to be in charge who chose the wrong guy to the be the QB, and had bad luck as well.

Put aside the qb position and then look at how this franchise has in general drafted. It's been mediocre. Not only that but the decisions to move up and gratuitously trade picks away for draft day maneuvers has too often not worked out well. It's very often said drafting is not an exact science. That's true. But what is evident is that some teams do it better than others.

 

After McDermott was hired he essentially brought in his own GM. Our scouting department was summarily dismissed after the draft. I'm not only not worried about this thorough cleaning out of the old guard I am celebrating these coherent organizational reconfigurations.

 

The Bills smartly have positioned themselves very well in this upcoming draft. This roster is competitive although in my view they are not a not a playoff team. In my view this roster lacks the depth required to go through the rigors of a long season. (Would love to be proven wrong.) I'm just hoping that this new regime drafts well enough to take advantage of their extra picks and give this roster a boost so that it can have some sustained success.

 

The Bills drafting hasn't been significantly worse than most teams' in the NFL. They have actually been very good at getting talent from later picks and UDFA, so they do find value. The problem is that the Bills DO NOT KEEP MOST OF THE GOOD PLAYERS THAT THEY DEVELOP, and that's been something that's been going on since even before the Donahoe era. It is what the Bills do: develop a player into a Pro Bowler and then send him off, getting nothing or virtually nothing for him while the Bills fill his spot with a JAG or ST refugee.

 

We have no idea if McDermott/Bean will be any good at drafting. The 2017 draft was essentially just filling needs, not looking toward the future. If Mahomes becomes a stud, he'll get added to the list of the good ones the Bills let get away.

Edited October 27, 2017 by SoTier

[bigK14094]

I would be inclined (if I were the Bills' GM) to draft a QB pretty high, and probably the first round. I am not inclined at this point to try and trade up since I don't see a clear consensus ranking of the top 6 or 7 QBs. Six months ago, Sam Darnold was a lock to be drafted first overall, now, not so much. I would let the draft come to me, and if the value just wasn't there when the Bills draft in the first round, I think there are some really promising guys who will be available a little later, even though I'm looking to find one in the first. As early as it is, everything is subject to change, however.

Yes, Darnold had a bad day against the the golden Domers.......likely still first round material, but when, who knows. I personally like Rosen, the guy at UCLA...great accurancy and a football head. Lets see who is there when the Bills pick comes up......I agree with not trading up....still smarting from the Watkins deal. I would not obj\ect to a first round wr either...or a lb for that matter.

Totally agree....I think for the first time in a long time we finally have a solid backup

That is TBD....he hasn't seen the field. When and if the bills are out of it....we will see him.

[GunnerBill]

 

Fitzpatrick was in B-lo from 2009 (started as backup) through 2012. Drafting any of the QBs other than Andy Dalton, Russell Wilson or Kirk Cousins during the time Fitzpatrick was here would have been a waste of resources.

Well draft one of those 3 then. The mistake the Bills made was not drafting EJ... it was failing to take one in 2011 or 2012 when they had a caretaker in place in Fitz.

 

They have a caretaker in place now who is even a little better than Fitz, they should not waste this opportunity like they did under Nix to take a guy who they can afford not to rush.

 

I just fundamentally cannot get my head around the "well what if they take one and he is bad?" mentality. Easy. Take another one. Doesn't have to be the next year (although Carolina did it with Clausen when it was obvious he couldn't play) but if by the end of year two you are only lukewarm on the guy then you better take one that year. And if you miss again you dust yourself off and you take one again.

 

I'm repeating Badol's statistic here but this Franchise has never in its whole history taken a QB with it's originally alloted first pick in an NFL draft. NEVER. That's not just bad luck in picking a few wrong guys.... it is a bad plan executed badly. Since Kelly retired 20 years ago the Bills have picked TWO 1st round Quarterbacks. Two.

 

Eventually you have to stop giving them a pass, stop finding excuses for them not to pick one and start acknowledging that their lack of success as a franchise is inextricably tied to their approach to filling the most important position on the field.

[nedboy7]

Not sure what this has to do w the raiders game or this season. Try to stay focused.