If The Scheme Isn't Broke Why Change It ??

[DriveFor1Outta5]

Most coaches will not take pieces of other schemes, regardless of how much success they had, and incorporate them into their own.

Tyrod and Shady's success has been in lots of shotgun & zone read. Neither of those are staples of the Dennison scheme, which has been around for 20 years.

Keep in mind that this scheme used PEYTON MANNING on bootlegs and under center!

Yep, and Manning really struggled with it as well. TT is not going to be an elite QB, but it's beyond idiotic to refuse to do things that work best for him. NFL coaches can be dumb. This is the simple conclusion that I reached a long time ago. Edited September 21, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[CardinalScotts]

how about they played a great defensive front and the whipped us, flat out beat us didn't trick us- beat us. 1-1 moving on

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

What I don't understand is why anyone who follows football enough to post on a message board, doesn't get this. It's nothing unique , every team does it. Sometimes you get lucky and the new guy follows the same scheme as the old guy and will keep some of the staff, but not often.

 

Likely if the team had hired Lynn, the offense staff would have been kept more in place and followed the same scheme, however I don't think you should give a preference as to who you may hire based on "I want to get a guy who coaches a certain style." There are a couple of posts here implying Pegula isn't smart enough to understand that and should have insisted they kept the coaches. Doing that, insisting they keep coaches if anything would prove he doesn't understand the process. Pegula did the smart and correct thing.

 

But bringing up these things gives the people who want to blast everything the Bills do, another reason to complain.

 

 

this just in...new coaches want their own systems run by their own guys. shocking news!

 

i get it if people don't like it, but i have to imagine this happens 99% of the time any new head comes in.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[MAJBobby]

 

Like I said, I do believe the defense is a mirage and will start to tail off big time especially as the injuries continue and we face much better teams and QB's.

 

But even if this defense ends up being in the top 15 in terms of the final rankings, it will be another 'what could have been' type of scenario knowing that even with the same offense the last 2 years under Rex Ryan we might have been good enough to seriously challenge for a playoff spot or sneak in.

 

One thing I do know, is if this team is destined for another 7-9 type of season that's the worst possible scenario because once again we are screwed out of prime draft position and will be forced to trade away most of the picks we accumulated to another team if we want a shot a blue chip QB prospect.

In terms of what rankings though. Rex defense want that bad in points allowed either just saying

[SDS]

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[MAJBobby]

 

I just want Dennisons full offense run this year. I will accept a horrible record and another year without playoffs if i am seeing an NFL offense and not a pop warner one.

[TheElectricCompany]

Yep, and Manning really struggled with it as well. TT is not going to be an elite QB, but it's beyond idiotic to refuse to do things that work best for him. NFL coaches can be dumb. This is the simple conclusion that I reached a long time ago.

NFL coaches are extremely smart, but also make some strange decisions in hindsight.

I guarantee if you sat down next to Dick Jauron, Rod Marinelli or any collection of "bad coaches", you'd walk away impressed!

That is NOT the O they're running in Denver this year and the O so far is much better.

My trouble with that team is that they didn't play to their strengths. The top WR combo in the league and the greatest QB of our generation? They decide to build an offense around a poor offensive line and a mediocre collection of RBs. They are doing a much better job this year of getting the ball to their playmakers and have also rebuilt their o-line.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

NFL coaches are extremely smart, but also make some strange decisions in hindsight.

I guarantee if you sat down next to Dick Jauron, Rod Marinelli or any collection of "bad coaches", you'd walk away impressed!

My trouble with that team is that they didn't play to their strengths. The top WR combo in the league and the greatest QB of our generation? They decide to build an offense around a poor offensive line and a mediocre collection of RBs. They are doing a much better job this year of getting the ball to their playmakers and have also rebuilt their o-line.

My problem with so many NFL coaches is their inability to be flexible. Most of us are required to be flexible workers. We can't go to work and do everything "our way". NFL coaches are often unwilling to adjust gameplans to what they have to work with. When we go to work, we work with what we are given. Why don't some NFL coaches do the same? Our game plan did nothing to play to strengths of TT. We may lack offensive weapons, but why not structure a game plan that fits the roster? Plus, how idiotic is it to use a fullback as the number two back?

[TheElectricCompany]

My problem with so many NFL coaches is their inability to be flexible. Most of us are required to be flexible workers. We can't go to work and do everything "our way". NFL coaches are often unwilling to adjust gameplans to what they have to work with. When we go to work, we work with what we are given. Why don't some NFL coaches do the same? Our game plan did nothing to play to strengths of TT. We may lack offensive weapons, but why not structure a game plan that fits the roster? Plus, how idiotic is it to use a fullback as the number two back?

NFL coaches are not the workers, they are the COOs.

They should have a scheme foundation in place, a solid structure that every coach and player can understand. It should account for existing talent when it's All Pro level and retained on longer term contracts.

 

Gameplans change every week, but I don't think they'll ever go too far outside what is taught and coaches in mini camp and training camp.

I think schemes sometimes are too grand sometimes. "Establish the run", "play action to setup the pass", "zone read to stretch the defense". blah blah blah. How about 1) Acquire playmakers and 2) get them the ball? K.I.S.S.

Edited September 21, 2017 by TheElectricCompany

[Buffalo716]

NFL coaches are not the workers, they are the COOs.

They should have a scheme foundation in place, a solid structure that every coach and player can understand. It should account for existing talent when it's All Pro level and retained on longer term contracts.

 

Gameplans change every week, but I don't think they'll ever go too far outside what is taught and coaches in mini camp and training camp.

I think schemes sometimes are too grand sometimes. "Establish the run", "play action to setup the pass", "zone read to stretch the defense". blah blah blah. How about 1) Acquire playmakers and 2) get them the ball? K.I.S.S.

 

Football coaches are very rigid. They are brought up on the game a certain way and they see the game through that lens.

 

You are exactly right that game plans change on a week to week basis, but your core philosophy you cannot change. McDermott, Dennison and all coaches are where they are today because they trust their scheme

 

If you are an offensive guy with 30 years experience in a mobile zone scheme, you cannot just jump switch to a vertical offense or a power Offense. You don't have the knowledge to teach the offense effectively because you learned a different style of ball

[TheElectricCompany]

If you are an offensive guy with 30 years experience in a mobile zone scheme, you cannot just jump switch to a vertical offense or a power Offense. You don't have the knowledge to teach the offense effectively because you learned a different style of ball

Or the personnel to pull it off.

 

The only team that seems to pull it off are the Patriots, in the past decade they have reinvented themselves several times. Went from power run game with Cory Dillon, to wide open spread, to heavy 2 tight end set with Gronk and Hernandez, and now they've got 4 RBs!!! they rotate in for very specific run & pass roles.

[Buffalo716]

Or the personnel to pull it off.

 

The only team that seems to pull it off are the Patriots, in the past decade they have reinvented themselves several times. Went from power run game with Cory Dillon, to wide open spread, to heavy 2 tight end set with Gronk and Hernandez, and now they've got 4 RBs!!! they rotate in for very specific run & pass roles.

 

Yea. All coaches can learn from Belicheck.

 

He is a defensive guru by trade and has switched up his philosophies over the years going from The Fairbanks/ bullough 34, to adding in 43 over and under fronts

 

But the offense is allowed to switch up seamlessly because of Brady. He had no problems playing in a Power O offense or in a spread. He can get any offensive coordinator with any scheme and he will be elite. Brady is an OCs dream

[Billsmovinup]

i think most do, but some just want to gripe about it. i mean...we all knew this year was a wash. it's not fun to watch another losing season, but if it leads to winning and stability in the future, we'll just have to be patient.

F--- patience. Ive been patient for 17 GD years and all I ever hear is people telling me to be patient when there are never any results. You can take your patience and stick it

[T master]

F--- patience. Ive been patient for 17 GD years and all I ever hear is people telling me to be patient when there are never any results. You can take your patience and stick it

 

Spoken like a true Bills fan !! I'm wit u bro !!

[Fadingpain]

Coaches in this league don't alter their approach to better harness available talent because most of them are not that bright and they only know how to do it one way--their way.

 

If the players they have don't fit in with that one way, they have to go get the guys who can do it the way they know how.

 

Do you think your average NFL HC is some sort of football tactical genius who loves tinkering around with X and O concepts on a blackboard as some type of intellectual challenge?

 

I often think that BB owns all the other coaches in this league, year after year, b/c he is one of the few guys in that line of work who is actually a smart guy who could have gone in many different directions with his career. He chose football coaching. He's the best because he's the smartest.

 

I was hoping our new guy would be smarter than he appears. Doesn't mean he can't be an effective coach however, and I'm supporting this regime until they show me they are incapable of success.

[Thurman#1]

 

If The Scheme Isn't Broke Why Change It ??

 

 

 

7-9 last year.

 

That's not an unbroken scheme. And it's why we're changing.

[Thurman#1]

Coaches in this league don't alter their approach to better harness available talent because most of them are not that bright and they only know how to do it one way--their way.

 

If the players they have don't fit in with that one way, they have to go get the guys who can do it the way they know how.

 

Do you think your average NFL HC is some sort of football tactical genius who loves tinkering around with X and O concepts on a blackboard as some type of intellectual challenge?

 

I often think that BB owns all the other coaches in this league, year after year, b/c he is one of the few guys in that line of work who is actually a smart guy who could have gone in many different directions with his career. He chose football coaching. He's the best because he's the smartest.

 

I was hoping our new guy would be smarter than he appears. Doesn't mean he can't be an effective coach however, and I'm supporting this regime until they show me they are incapable of success.

 

 

 

What I hear you saying is that dumb coaches don't bend their tactics to their personnel because they aren't smart enough. And yet you're also saying that Belichick also doesn't bend his system to his guys because he's really smart.

 

And I think that's right. Plenty of dumb coaches don't bend systems to players, and the same with plenty of smart coaches. It's got nothing to do with smart and dumb. Lombardi didn't fit the system to the players. Neither did Bill Walsh or Chuck Noll or ... I'm sure you could go on and on with this list as easily as I can.

 

The key factor seems to be two things ... first, is the system you're converting to truly a good one, and second, can you now still bring in the players of quality necessary to run your system successfully?

 

I just don't know the answer to either of these questions for the current regime, but the fact that he's not changing his system for a bunch of players that went 7-9 does not bother me one iota.

[ALF]

If this new offensive scheme can let us draft a qb high all is well. I just hope Peterman can start next season because asking a rookie qb to be a pocket and timing passes is a big leap. I was really impressed how good Peterman is for this new system.

 

The problem is the OL trying to learn this new scheme.

[Thurman#1]

F--- patience. Ive been patient for 17 GD years and all I ever hear is people telling me to be patient when there are never any results. You can take your patience and stick it

 

 

 

I hear your frustration. And being angry at the unsuccessful older regimes makes total sense.

 

But it doesn't make sense to bring that reasonable frustration over onto the current regime. These things take time. The Kelly-Thurman-Andre-Bruce Bills weren't built in a year or two or even three. These things generally take time, like it or not.

 

I like the Warren Buffett quotation. "No matter how great the talent or efforts, some things just take time. You can't produce a baby in one month by getting nine women pregnant."

[JM2009]

Because the FO understood what this year really was.

 

An extended Preseason and Transition year.

 

To see who can play in your system going forward.

 

Just the fans never understood or wanted to accept that FACT

If this defense is for real, then the offense of the last two seasons if kept the same, we would have been a playoff team this year.

 

 

 

I hear your frustration. And being angry at the unsuccessful older regimes makes total sense.

 

But it doesn't make sense to bring that reasonable frustration over onto the current regime. These things take time. The Kelly-Thurman-Andre-Bruce Bills weren't built in a year or two or even three. These things generally take time, like it or not.

 

I like the Warren Buffett quotation. "No matter how great the talent or efforts, some things just take time. You can't produce a baby in one month by getting nine women pregnant."

The offense the last two years produced enough points.