FREEKING Watkins trade

[C.Biscuit97]

Every team has to have someone draw the top DB, so I've never understood that point. I agree that Matthews is a two at best, and I do understand the double team issue. However, did the Redskins double team Sammy? I doubt they had to with Josh Norman on him.

You can press the line and bring Ss up to the line when you don't fear getting beat deep. There are more guys in the box, thus making it harder to run the ball.

 

Sammy struggles with injuries but he still is a big threat that draws attention. He was one of the best deep ball threats in the NFL. You are less likely to bring up coverage if he's on the field.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

You can press the line and bring Ss up to the line when you don't fear getting beat deep. There are more guys in the box, thus making it harder to run the ball.

 

Sammy struggles with injuries but he still is a big threat that draws attention. He was one of the best deep ball threats in the NFL. You are less likely to bring up coverage if he's on the field.

I agree. Good post, but why didn't we try to throw deep at least once if that were the case? I'm not denying the talent of Sammy. Zay Jones and Sammy are no comparison athlete wise, but Sammy ran a 4.43 40 while Jones ran a 4.45 40. Why not at least run a token deep route to loosen the safeties up? We might lack a legit deep threat, but it's not like my grandma is playing receiver. Jones is no Sammy, but it's not as if he's incapable of running.

[BringBackOrton]

I agree. Good post, but why didn't we try to throw deep at least once if that were the case? I'm not denying the talent of Sammy. Zay Jones and Sammy are no comparison athlete wise, but Sammy ran a 4.43 40 while Jones ran a 4.45 40. Why not at least run a token deep route to loosen the safeties up? We might lack a legit deep threat, but it's not like my grandma is playing receiver. Jones is no Sammy, but it's not as if he's incapable of running.

We should've thrown a deep ball, just once, in the first half. No excuse.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

We should've thrown a deep ball, just once, in the first half. No excuse.

Exactly. We might not have a marquee deep threat, but it's something that you have to attempt. Coming out of college Jones wasn't viewed as an elite deep threat. That fact doesn't mean he isn't capable of being targeted on deep throws. Most scouting reports on Jones indicated that he had the ability to do so. Edited September 18, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[cba fan]

Do we have to rehash that trade forever? Sammy caught 2 for 30 yards yesterday- don't think that would have won this game.

WAIT A MINUTE.

 

Watkins had a 2 yd catch and a 28 yd catch. If he had the 28 yarder on Bills in place of the Zay nay Jones last play fiasco. Bills are in business and likely win.

Edited September 18, 2017 by cba fan

[Alphadawg7]

I agree. Good post, but why didn't we try to throw deep at least once if that were the case? I'm not denying the talent of Sammy. Zay Jones and Sammy are no comparison athlete wise, but Sammy ran a 4.43 40 while Jones ran a 4.45 40. Why not at least run a token deep route to loosen the safeties up? We might lack a legit deep threat, but it's not like my grandma is playing receiver. Jones is no Sammy, but it's not as if he's incapable of running.

 

There is a lot more that goes into throwing deep than just heaving a ball down field. People think its all on the QB yet its actually a LOT of things that are involved in throwing deep down field.

 

1. The receivers need to run consistently good routes: A deep pass is 100% percent based on timing. If the WR lets up even a split second from a sloppy cut, stumble, slow to look for the ball, etc it throws the timing off to either result in incomplete or an INT.

 

2. Trust: See above. The QB needs to trust where the WR is going to be. He needs to be supremely confident that ball and receiver are going to meet at a point where he is throwing it. If a QB doesn't trust the receiver (either from an inconsistency, lack of experience together, etc) its hard for them to pull the trigger and fire.

 

3. Pass Protection: You need more time for the routes to develop on a deep pass to read the defense and the field to see where to go down field with the ball. If the OL isn't giving the QB time, it interrupts their downfield clock and they start looking to check down, running lanes, or get out of the pocket and reassess.

 

4. The defense: A lot of novice fans at home think they see an open WR because they don't understand zone coverage. Often guys look open downfield when they are not nearly as open as the fan thinks because there are defenders near the zone able to close on the play. The worst QB in the NFL understands that a thousand times better than any fan on this board.

 

5. Play design: Not all plays are equal. There are guys out there on every play mostly there to just draw defenders towards them to create one on one matchups in man or creates soft spots in zone defenses. Never underestimate the importance of play design, the OC, and the play calling. For all we know, there was only one route going deep on a given play and that wasn't opening up. Fans tend to think that 1 or more receivers are going deep on every play which just isn't the case.

 

Personally as far as Sunday goes, I felt like the play calling was the absolute biggest culprit to the stagnant offense. Lots of head scratching play calls, very predictable play calling etc...until late when he finally stopped calling the game like Juaron would. Even in the Jets game, once we had a 2 score lead the offense went ultra conservative. I think maybe the strong showing by the D kept them conservative and risk adverse until it was late and had no choice but to open it up.

[Figster]

 

There is a lot more that goes into throwing deep than just heaving a ball down field. People think its all on the QB yet its actually a LOT of things that are involved in throwing deep down field.

 

1. The receivers need to run consistently good routes: A deep pass is 100% percent based on timing. If the WR lets up even a split second from a sloppy cut, stumble, slow to look for the ball, etc it throws the timing off to either result in incomplete or an INT.

 

2. Trust: See above. The QB needs to trust where the WR is going to be. He needs to be supremely confident that ball and receiver are going to meet at a point where he is throwing it. If a QB doesn't trust the receiver (either from an inconsistency, lack of experience together, etc) its hard for them to pull the trigger and fire.

 

3. Pass Protection: You need more time for the routes to develop on a deep pass to read the defense and the field to see where to go down field with the ball. If the OL isn't giving the QB time, it interrupts their downfield clock and they start looking to check down, running lanes, or get out of the pocket and reassess.

 

4. The defense: A lot of novice fans at home think they see an open WR because they don't understand zone coverage. Often guys look open downfield when they are not nearly as open as the fan thinks because there are defenders near the zone able to close on the play. The worst QB in the NFL understands that a thousand times better than any fan on this board.

 

5. Play design: Not all plays are equal. There are guys out there on every play mostly there to just draw defenders towards them to create one on one matchups in man or creates soft spots in zone defenses. Never underestimate the importance of play design, the OC, and the play calling. For all we know, there was only one route going deep on a given play and that wasn't opening up. Fans tend to think that 1 or more receivers are going deep on every play which just isn't the case.

 

Personally as far as Sunday goes, I felt like the play calling was the absolute biggest culprit to the stagnant offense. Lots of head scratching play calls, very predictable play calling etc...until late when he finally stopped calling the game like Juaron would. Even in the Jets game, once we had a 2 score lead the offense went ultra conservative. I think maybe the strong showing by the D kept them conservative and risk adverse until it was late and had no choice but to open it up.

Myself Personally, the Bills starting QB just didn't get the job done in my humble opinion.

[Chilly]

Myself Personally, the Bills starting QB just didn't get the job done in my humble opinion.

Did he have open receivers to throw to?

[Alphadawg7]

Myself Personally, the Bills starting QB just didn't get the job done in my humble opinion.

 

Not saying TT can't be better or didn't have a rough day...was just commenting on going deep isn't just a matter of chucking up a football like so many around here seem to think.

[Hurricane]

Best Quote of that movie "Coach I look like I just jacked off an elephant" lol

 

hahaha... great movie..

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

There is a lot more that goes into throwing deep than just heaving a ball down field. People think its all on the QB yet its actually a LOT of things that are involved in throwing deep down field.

 

1. The receivers need to run consistently good routes: A deep pass is 100% percent based on timing. If the WR lets up even a split second from a sloppy cut, stumble, slow to look for the ball, etc it throws the timing off to either result in incomplete or an INT.

 

2. Trust: See above. The QB needs to trust where the WR is going to be. He needs to be supremely confident that ball and receiver are going to meet at a point where he is throwing it. If a QB doesn't trust the receiver (either from an inconsistency, lack of experience together, etc) its hard for them to pull the trigger and fire.

 

3. Pass Protection: You need more time for the routes to develop on a deep pass to read the defense and the field to see where to go down field with the ball. If the OL isn't giving the QB time, it interrupts their downfield clock and they start looking to check down, running lanes, or get out of the pocket and reassess.

 

4. The defense: A lot of novice fans at home think they see an open WR because they don't understand zone coverage. Often guys look open downfield when they are not nearly as open as the fan thinks because there are defenders near the zone able to close on the play. The worst QB in the NFL understands that a thousand times better than any fan on this board.

 

5. Play design: Not all plays are equal. There are guys out there on every play mostly there to just draw defenders towards them to create one on one matchups in man or creates soft spots in zone defenses. Never underestimate the importance of play design, the OC, and the play calling. For all we know, there was only one route going deep on a given play and that wasn't opening up. Fans tend to think that 1 or more receivers are going deep on every play which just isn't the case.

 

Personally as far as Sunday goes, I felt like the play calling was the absolute biggest culprit to the stagnant offense. Lots of head scratching play calls, very predictable play calling etc...until late when he finally stopped calling the game like Juaron would. Even in the Jets game, once we had a 2 score lead the offense went ultra conservative. I think maybe the strong showing by the D kept them conservative and risk adverse until it was late and had no choice but to open it up.

Great response. You made great points. I'd just like to see the offense draw up one deep throw down the field. It's understandable that TT didn't have the opportunity to get to the deep option on any plays. However, I'd like to see more of an effort placed to do so. Even if it's just a token play. The offense coordinator and QB need to work together to make it happen at least once a game.

 

Not saying TT can't be better or didn't have a rough day...was just commenting on going deep isn't just a matter of chucking up a football like so many around here seem to think.

Sometimes it does need to be just a matter of "chucking it up" to keep the defense honest imo. These are the types of plays that quality QB's know how to safely make at least once a game. Edited September 18, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[Boatdrinks]

I agree. Good post, but why didn't we try to throw deep at least once if that were the case? I'm not denying the talent of Sammy. Zay Jones and Sammy are no comparison athlete wise, but Sammy ran a 4.43 40 while Jones ran a 4.45 40. Why not at least run a token deep route to loosen the safeties up? We might lack a legit deep threat, but it's not like my grandma is playing receiver. Jones is no Sammy, but it's not as if he's incapable of running.

Straight line 40 speed is somewhat overrated. Being " slippery" off the line and quick in and out of breaks is more critical. SW gets open consistently. Regardless, he's gone. When and if the Rams start to integrate him to their attack and feature him, then we will see what he is capable of.

[Wayne Arnold]

Post like this shows how clueless some people are about football.

 

If you honestly believe DCs prepare for Matthews and Sammy the same, you're stupid. With Watkins, you have to keep defenders back. He draws double teams and top cbs. Matthews is a number 2 wr on his best day.

 

If we kept Sammy and added Matthews, this would be one of the best wr groups in the NFL. Now, it's one of the worst and our run game will suffer because of it.

 

Prepare some Jauron type offense. Good times.

 

[danc]

Gaines has been a terrific CB so far, do you really want to get rid of him?

Darby broke his ankle/foot in week 1. He'll be in a boot for 4-6 weeks and then have some rehab. Gaines looks real good to me.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

The Sammy Watkins drafting was the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals...maybe ever!

Trading two first round picks for a wr when you have nothing that resembles a QB on your roster, it's like buying condoms and declaring yourself celibate, there's just no point

I see. So then continuing this example, it was logical from them to trade those condoms for the ability to select other condoms later, when celibacy is abandoned.

Straight line 40 speed is somewhat overrated. Being " slippery" off the line and quick in and out of breaks is more critical. SW gets open consistently. Regardless, he's gone. When and if the Rams start to integrate him to their attack and feature him, then we will see what he is capable of.

Sammys been a just wait and see for his entire rookie deal.

[Doc]

I see. So then continuing this example, it was logical from them to trade those condoms for the ability to select other condoms later, when celibacy is abandoned.

 

Doesn't help if said traded condoms are always breaking...