cba fan Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) It feels to you like a lot of bumbling around because you don't know Beane's and McD's plan and vision. I'm sure it doesn't feel to them like bumbling around. I believe they're being true to the principles and overall strategy. Beane's a bright guy. When you suggest that he's getting rid of players that Whaley drafted just because, it sounds like your letting your emotions cloud your reason. Which is understandable after 17 years of no playoffs. Beane is too smart to do something like that. He wouldn't have risen the way he has in the NFL if we're indeed that "stupid." What we see in the media is just the tip of the iceberg. It's the other 90% that's intriguing. What is the grand strategy? What's the complete story behind the Darby and Watkins trades? Right now, we're not privy to all that. Does not feel to them they are bumbling around??? Beane himself said he was not shopping them and teams approached Bills. McDerma then was surprised to get info on these pending deals right after the thurs night game and did not sleep all night trying to digest it. Sounds like Fred and Barney out for a night on the town to me. Edited August 14, 2017 by cba fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) what if they win? Over the last couple of days many posters have concluded that it's impossible. Somehow they are 100% certain that this regime will fail. I wonder how many of these posters made the same guarantees that previous regimes would succeed? So if I think Watkins didn't really want to play in Buffalo catching 4 passes a game from Tyrod Taylor, I'm pathetic and wrong? That's pretty harsh. That's another thing that fans are 100% percent sure of. Many posters claim there being no way that Sammy didn't want to be here. People are acting as if they hang out with the guy every Friday night. I'm not saying that's what happened. I just think it's strange to completely dismiss the possibility. In fact this article could be interpreted as hinting at that possibility. Edited August 14, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Over the last couple of days many posters have concluded that it's impossible. Somehow they are 100% certain that this regime will fail. I wonder how many of these posters made the same guarantees that previous regimes would succeed? this is where i'm at with it. maybe this all works out. maybe mcb and bean are the guys we've been waiting for. then again, maybe not. what i do see is that some who don't like the trade are already calling it the end. who knows what will happen. it's been a strange few days, and it's going to take time to see how this plays out. I understand it. They need to justify why a good player is no longer here. It's just unbelievably pathetic and wrong. i don't think it has anything to do with the player not wanting to be here. it has far more to do with whether or not it's worth paying him what he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 That's another thing that fans are 100% percent sure of. Many posters claim there being no way that Sammy didn't want to be here. People are acting as if they hang out with the guy every Friday night. I'm not saying that's what happened. I just think it's strange to completely dismiss the possibility. In fact this article could be interpreted as hinting at that possibility. No, many fans are simply saying that there's no reason to believe that Sammy didn't want to be here. In fact, the only comments he's ever made about his feelings regarding the team are that he wanted to play here is entire career. When I read "well, he didn't want to be here anyway", that's got far, far less supporting evidence behind it than if someone were to say "he did want to be here". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 No, many fans are simply saying that there's no reason to believe that Sammy didn't want to be here. In fact, the only comments he's ever made about his feelings regarding the team are that he wanted to play here is entire career. When I read "well, he didn't want to be here anyway", that's got far, far less supporting evidence behind it than if someone were to say "he did want to be here". It's just Bills Fan Sour Grapes. We hear it all the time at TBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I'll respectfully counter it this way: Who was the only receiver in the NFL with whom Tyrod Taylor has a proven comfort level? Who was the only cornerback on the roster at the start of training camp that has proven that he can play in the NFL at a high level? By the simple metric of giving up those 2 players they're worse off. How much worse off is the question. I think Darby and Grimes is a wash. As for comfort level, it's on TT to spread the ball around more. And yes losing Sammy means we are less talented at that one position. I think Sammy would have been happy to be here for his career if compensated at a level he wanted. Would he have been here? Don't know; it would depend on his play this coming year and apparently Beane and McD didn't feel that a wait and see approach was the best way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 No, many fans are simply saying that there's no reason to believe that Sammy didn't want to be here. In fact, the only comments he's ever made about his feelings regarding the team are that he wanted to play here is entire career. When I read "well, he didn't want to be here anyway", that's got far, far less supporting evidence behind it than if someone were to say "he did want to be here". Either statement would be an assumption unless said fan has a personal relationship with the player. My issue is when people say "he didn't want to be here" , and someone replies by saying "yes he did". Or the reverse when a poster says "he wanted to be here", and the reply is "no he didn't". It's fair to write a post claiming that all signs pointed to him wanting to be here. It's also fair to post that the trade was made with the consideration that he didn't want to be here. The issue is when people claim with certainty that the side they disagree with must be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Over the last couple of days many posters have concluded that it's impossible. Somehow they are 100% certain that this regime will fail. I wonder how many of these posters made the same guarantees that previous regimes would succeed? That's another thing that fans are 100% percent sure of. Many posters claim there being no way that Sammy didn't want to be here. People are acting as if they hang out with the guy every Friday night. I'm not saying that's what happened. I just think it's strange to completely dismiss the possibility. In fact this article could be interpreted as hinting at that possibility. I will go with direct quotes from Watkins on this. He said: "I love Buffalo, I want to be here for the rest of my career" https://www.news-press.com/story/sports/2017/07/29/buffalo-bills-sammy-watkins-healed-happy-motivated/521595001/ http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/07/what_buffalo_bills_wr_sammy_watkins_had_to_say_about_his_foot_injury_contract.html http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000822817/article/sammy-watkins-my-goal-is-to-stay-in-buffalo-forever Beans on the other hand says one thing and does the other. Just like McDerma. Edited August 14, 2017 by cba fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 No, many fans are simply saying that there's no reason to believe that Sammy didn't want to be here. In fact, the only comments he's ever made about his feelings regarding the team are that he wanted to play here is entire career. When I read "well, he didn't want to be here anyway", that's got far, far less supporting evidence behind it than if someone were to say "he did want to be here". He called the trade 'a blessing'. I think it's reasonable to infer that, as a WR in a run-oriented offense, he'd prefer a greater share of touches than he was allotted in Buffalo, and I'm pretty sure I can cite every wideout ever as evidence that WRs want the ball thrown to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I understand it. They need to justify why a good player is no longer here. It's just unbelievably pathetic and wrong. Pathetic is using the word pathetic over and over again in posts as if it has some magical meaning. Peters should have gotten paid more. No question. The front office said they'd talk, but they just wanted Peters to come to OBD to be evaluated for the injury he had and he wouldn't come. Lynch and his agent wanted out after CJ got drafted and told Buddy so. Sammy on the other hand I think would have been happy to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I will go with direct quotes from Watkins on this. He said: "I love Buffalo, I want to be here for the rest of my career" https://www.news-press.com/story/sports/2017/07/29/buffalo-bills-sammy-watkins-healed-happy-motivated/521595001/ http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/07/what_buffalo_bills_wr_sammy_watkins_had_to_say_about_his_foot_injury_contract.html http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000822817/article/sammy-watkins-my-goal-is-to-stay-in-buffalo-forever Beans on the other hand says one thing and does the other. Just like McDerma. No sense in getting into a debate about Sammy's desire to be here. Read my previous post. It's a classic argument from ignorance scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 It's just Bills Fan Sour Grapes. We hear it all the time at TBD. I think Darby and Grimes is a wash. As for comfort level, it's on TT to spread the ball around more. And yes losing Sammy means we are less talented at that one position. I think Sammy would have been happy to be here for his career if compensated at a level he wanted. Would he have been here? Don't know; it would depend on his play this coming year and apparently Beane and McD didn't feel that a wait and see approach was the best way to go. I don't see how Darby and Gaines is a wash. Darby had one excellent and one sub-par season; Gaines had one good year, one very bad year, and one year he lost completely to injury. Either statement would be an assumption unless said fan has a personal relationship with the player. My issue is when people say "he didn't want to be here" , and someone replies by saying "yes he did". Or the reverse when a poster says "he wanted to be here", and the reply is "no he didn't". It's fair to write a post claiming that all signs pointed to him wanting to be here. It's also fair to post that the trade was made with the consideration that he didn't want to be here. The issue is when people claim with certainty that the side they disagree with must be wrong. No, one statement is taking a quote from him directly, and the other is an assumption. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000822817/article/sammy-watkins-my-goal-is-to-stay-in-buffalo-forever "I love Buffalo," Watkins told the team's official site. "They drafted me first round, fourth pick. My job is to stay here for a while. That's the goal. You don't want to change teams. My job is to stay around here forever. That's the goal." Now, if you want to claim that he wasn't being 100% truthful here you go right ahead, but it's patently untrue that both the "he does" and "he doesn't" statements are assumptions. He said he does, and there's absolutely no reason for him to lie about it. He called the trade 'a blessing'. I think it's reasonable to infer that, as a WR in a run-oriented offense, he'd prefer a greater share of touches than he was allotted in Buffalo, and I'm pretty sure I can cite every wideout ever as evidence that WRs want the ball thrown to them. I think he'd probably be just as happy getting his increased target share here. Also, I have no reason to suspect that the trade isn't a blessing in his mind. He wants opportunity, and he's very likely to get it in LA. Both statements can be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) I don't see how Darby and Gaines is a wash. Darby had one excellent and one sub-par season; Gaines had one good year, one very bad year, and one year he lost completely to injury. No, one statement is taking a quote from him directly, and the other is an assumption. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000822817/article/sammy-watkins-my-goal-is-to-stay-in-buffalo-forever "I love Buffalo," Watkins told the team's official site. "They drafted me first round, fourth pick. My job is to stay here for a while. That's the goal. You don't want to change teams. My job is to stay around here forever. That's the goal." Now, if you want to claim that he wasn't being 100% truthful here you go right ahead, but it's patently untrue that both the "he does" and "he doesn't" statements are assumptions. He said he does, and there's absolutely no reason for him to lie about it. Both statements are assumptions. Just because Sammy says something doesn't make it true. So you believe that everything people say is always true? You've never met someone who says one thing but does another? Sammy also posted "going out with a bang" on Instagram when his option was declined. That could be interpreted many ways. I do not claim to know that he didn't want to be here. I have no clue. You also have no clue. We are both making an argument from ignorance. No one can win. They are nothing more than personal beliefs. I'm willing to grant your belief that Sammy wanted to be here. I have no evidence to the contrary. You also have no real undeniable evidence that he did want to be here. Its unfair to state that the other side is wrong as a fact. Edited August 14, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Both statements are assumptions. Just because Sammy says something doesn't make it true. So you believe that everything people say is always true? You've never met someone who says one thing but does another? Sammy also posted "going out with a bang" on Instagram when his option was declined. That could be interpreted many ways. I do not claim to know that he didn't want to be here. I have no clue. You also have no clue. We are both making an argument from ignorance. No one can win. They are nothing more than personal beliefs. I'm willing to grant your belief that Sammy wanted to be here. I have no evidence to the contrary. You also have no real undeniable evidence that he did want to be here. So don't stage that the other side is wrong as a fact. You are still missing the point. There's no assumption in taking him at his word; you either believe him or you don't. The assumption is made when someone says that he didn't want to be here, because everything up until now indicates that he does. Everything. If you're looking for undeniable evidence of someone's true feelings, well, that doesn't exist in this plane of reality. So I suppose literally anything anyone ever says is an argument from ignorance under those criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) You are still missing the point. There's no assumption in taking him at his word; you either believe him or you don't. The assumption is made when someone says that he didn't want to be here, because everything up until now indicates that he does. Everything. If you're looking for undeniable evidence of someone's true feelings, well, that doesn't exist in this plane of reality. So I suppose literally anything anyone ever says is an argument from ignorance under those criteria. I'll agree with your last paragraph. It makes it even more difficult when you don't know someone personally. When we know someone personally we are able to assess our trust levels. Many people are still bad at assessing others. Some fans get emotionally hooked, they feel as if they do know these guys personally. There is an assumption in taking someone for their word. Particularly someone you don't know. You have no clue if Sammy is a man of his word. That said I have no clue that he isn't. I'm not missing the point. I simply disagree with your point. Edited August 14, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 Both statements are assumptions. Just because Sammy says something doesn't make it true. So you believe that everything people say is always true? You've never met someone who says one thing but does another? Sammy also posted "going out with a bang" on Instagram when his option was declined. That could be interpreted many ways. I do not claim to know that he didn't want to be here. I have no clue. You also have no clue. We are both making an argument from ignorance. No one can win. They are nothing more than personal beliefs. I'm willing to grant your belief that Sammy wanted to be here. I have no evidence to the contrary. You also have no real undeniable evidence that he did want to be here. Its unfair to state that the other side is wrong as a fact. A direct quote from someone is an assumption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I don't see how Darby and Gaines is a wash. Darby had one excellent and one sub-par season; Gaines had one good year, one very bad year, and one year he lost completely to injury. No, one statement is taking a quote from him directly, and the other is an assumption. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000822817/article/sammy-watkins-my-goal-is-to-stay-in-buffalo-forever "I love Buffalo," Watkins told the team's official site. "They drafted me first round, fourth pick. My job is to stay here for a while. That's the goal. You don't want to change teams. My job is to stay around here forever. That's the goal." Now, if you want to claim that he wasn't being 100% truthful here you go right ahead, but it's patently untrue that both the "he does" and "he doesn't" statements are assumptions. He said he does, and there's absolutely no reason for him to lie about it. I think he'd probably be just as happy getting his increased target share here. Also, I have no reason to suspect that the trade isn't a blessing in his mind. He wants opportunity, and he's very likely to get it in LA. Both statements can be true. Gaines I believe was All rookie team two years ago. I think he likes zone more than Darby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) A direct quote from someone is an assumption? It would be nice to live in a world where you can 100% believe everything someone says. None of us including myself know if Sammy wanted to be here. It's a personal assumption. You can't tell people they are wrong if they claim he didn't want to be here. People also can't tell you that you are wrong if when you say he did. Edited August 14, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 It would be nice to live in a world where you can 100% believe everything someone says. None of us including myself know if Sammy wanted to be here. It's a personal assumption. You can't tell people they are wrong if they he didn't want to be here. People also can't tell you that you are wrong if you say that he did. Your admitted bias against Sammy is showing clearly for all to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Your admitted bias against Sammy is showing clearly for all to see. You seem to be obsessed with my "bias" against Sammy. I'm not even saying that he didn't want to be here. I've only said that people shouldn't try to claim they know those type of details. Go cry at your Watkins shrine this season, I'll be rooting for our team to win some games. It would be a far better conversation if you could reply to my posts with something more informative than calling out a "bias". All of us including yourself have "bias" when it comes to this topic. Edited August 14, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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