BADOLBILZ Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) At 61″, 211-pounds, Watkins ran a 4.43 40-yard dash (85th percentile) posting a 109.6 speed score (89th percentile), per playerprofiler.com. At 63″, 212-pounds, Matthews ran a 4.46 40-yard dash (76th percentile) posting a 110.1 speed score (90th percentile), per playerprofiler.com. J-Matt recorded a higher agility score and a much higher catch radius (10.19 vs. 9.97) than Watkins, while the two receivers have nearly identical burst scores. J-Matt also has a 123.3 Nike SPARQ-x score (combination of speed, power, agility, reaction, and quickness) which is in the elite 91st percentile. Watkins SPARQ-x score is 109.3, in the 61st percentile. So to recap, J-Matt has achieved better production in the NFL over the past three seasons, stayed healthier, and is more athletic than Watkins. http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/08/14/mccoy-wrong-watkins-matthews/ There are also a couple thousand better athletes than Sammy Watkins playing basketball in the D-League and overseas. Watkins is the perfect combo of football skills in a WR.........that's why he was GREAT in college........and has been great when healthy and used in the pros. Matthews is a better track athlete......lot's of those types in the NFL.........but his actual football skillset is considerably lesser.........particularly the ballskills area. You can tell the greats because they are the same downfield as they are on shorter throws. Case in point.........see Thurman Thomas as a receiver downfield.........awesome......smooth and natural.......track and adjust easily to throws. McCoy and Spiller........get them 15 yards downfield and they are fighting the football. Sammy is just awesome at every aspect you need a receiver to be. Edited August 16, 2017 by #BADOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Right? Those who like the trade are at least willing to say that Watkins has more natural talent, but those who oppose it seem unable to grasp the importance of availability and it's impact on production. Back to the issue though, there's no way any of Matthews, Jones, or Streater can run a fly against an NFL corner... So you're going to join Bill_with_it in completely mischaracterizing the opposing argument for no good reason? Very well then... Folks that oppose the trade have been very clear in their criticisms: Watkins, when healthy, is the better receiver. Yes, availability was an issue last year. In his first 2 seasons, he missed 3 games, but played through other injuries to be more productive than Matthews. He had not missed a single TC practice this season, so there is absolutely no reason to suspect that he would miss significant time this year. None. As to the issue at hand, the point is quite clear: which of those receivers has been anywhere near as explosive as Sammy? Which has produced even close to the number of big plays? Let's not speculate; let's use real actual data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I know you aren't actually being serious, but nevertheless, for those that care, I'll repeat: So yardage is the only metric? You can make the word 15 font. It doesnt change these: Sammy has less tds in 2 seasons. Sammy has less yds in one season. Sammy has been oft injured and unavailable to his team. Sammy has less receptions. Sammy had a 7 game stinker of 147 yards. Sammy's combine numbers arent anything more special than Mathews. SAMMY IS GONE 225 catches, 2,500 yds, 19 TDs first 3 seasons: Randy Moss Larry Fitz A.J. Green DeAndre Hopkins Odell Beckham Mike Evans Jordan Matthews All Watkins has is potential. Im sure there are a number of people that still believe in EJ or insert any other NFL high "potential/upside" that didnt meet expectations. At 61″, 211-pounds, Watkins ran a 4.43 40-yard dash (85th percentile) posting a 109.6 speed score (89th percentile), per playerprofiler.com. At 63″, 212-pounds, Matthews ran a 4.46 40-yard dash (76th percentile) posting a 110.1 speed score (90th percentile), per playerprofiler.com. J-Matt recorded a higher agility score and a much higher catch radius (10.19 vs. 9.97) than Watkins, while the two receivers have nearly identical burst scores. J-Matt also has a 123.3 Nike SPARQ-x score (combination of speed, power, agility, reaction, and quickness) which is in the elite 91st percentile. Watkins SPARQ-x score is 109.3, in the 61st percentile. So to recap, J-Matt has achieved better production in the NFL over the past three seasons, stayed healthier, and is more athletic than Watkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 You can tell the greats because they are the same downfield as they are on shorter throws. That's probably the best way to summarize the discussion. So yardage is the only metric? You can make the word 15 font. It doesnt change these: Sammy has less tds in 2 seasons. Sammy has less yds in one season. Sammy has been oft injured and unavailable to his team. Sammy has less receptions. Sammy had a 7 game stinker of 147 yards. Sammy's combine numbers arent anything more special than Mathews. SAMMY IS GONE 225 catches, 2,500 yds, 19 TDs first 3 seasons: Randy Moss Larry Fitz A.J. Green DeAndre Hopkins Odell Beckham Mike Evans Jordan Matthews All Watkins has is potential. Im sure there are a number of people that still believe in EJ or insert any other NFL high "potential/upside" that didnt meet expectations. At 61″, 211-pounds, Watkins ran a 4.43 40-yard dash (85th percentile) posting a 109.6 speed score (89th percentile), per playerprofiler.com. At 63″, 212-pounds, Matthews ran a 4.46 40-yard dash (76th percentile) posting a 110.1 speed score (90th percentile), per playerprofiler.com. J-Matt recorded a higher agility score and a much higher catch radius (10.19 vs. 9.97) than Watkins, while the two receivers have nearly identical burst scores. J-Matt also has a 123.3 Nike SPARQ-x score (combination of speed, power, agility, reaction, and quickness) which is in the elite 91st percentile. Watkins SPARQ-x score is 109.3, in the 61st percentile. So to recap, J-Matt has achieved better production in the NFL over the past three seasons, stayed healthier, and is more athletic than Watkins. Nope. All Watkins has is better production on a per-target basis. You cannot and will not address that because it runs counter to your diatribe. He's the better player, and it's really not close. All Matthews has on him is 9 additional games of availability. Period. You can bold it all you want, but that's the only thing you're betting on...and guess what? One of them is available to his team right now...who is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 So you're going to join Bill_with_it in completely mischaracterizing the opposing argument for no good reason? Very well then... Folks that oppose the trade have been very clear in their criticisms: Watkins, when healthy, is the better receiver. Yes, availability was an issue last year. In his first 2 seasons, he missed 3 games, but played through other injuries to be more productive than Matthews. He had not missed a single TC practice this season, so there is absolutely no reason to suspect that he would miss significant time this year. None. As to the issue at hand, the point is quite clear: which of those receivers has been anywhere near as explosive as Sammy? Which has produced even close to the number of big plays? Let's not speculate; let's use real actual data. Well stated. If Sammy stays healthy, this will go down as one of the worst trades in Bills' history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Well stated. If Sammy stays healthy, this will go down as one of the worst trades in Bills' history. If you were going to bet one way or the other, that would be the safer bet. It will look really, really bad half way through this season "IF" the offense is really sputtering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Well stated. If Sammy stays healthy, this will go down as one of the worst trades in Bills' history. Are you foreseeing Mr. Goff lighting up the league with Sammy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) That's probably the best way to summarize the discussion. Nope. All Watkins has is better production on a per-target basis. You cannot and will not address that because it runs counter to your diatribe. He's the better player, and it's really not close. All Matthews has on him is 9 additional games of availability. Period. You can bold it all you want, but that's the only thing you're betting on...and guess what? One of them is available to his team right now...who is it? Last I checked Mathews wasnt ruled out.Per target basis huh? Excellent except for when Sammy is doesnt feel like it. 7 game stretch in 2015 147 yards 29 receptions. Thats correct me if I am wrong 5.1 yards per catch. Edited August 16, 2017 by Bill_with_it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Well stated. If Sammy stays healthy, this will go down as one of the worst trades in Bills' history. No, it really depends upon the respective futures of the two franchises. If the players acquired by the Bills as a result of these trades (Matthews/Gaines/draft picks) are productive, and the Bills become a regular playoff participant, it doesn't matter what sort of career Sammy has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 Last I checked Mathews wasnt ruled out. Per target basis huh? Excellent t for when Sammy is Doesnt feel like it. 7 game stretch in 2015 147 yards 29 receptions. Thats correct me if I am wrong 5.1 yards per catch. Compare respective per game numbers for the two for the entirety of their careers. We know you won't because it kicks your POV squarely in the nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Compare respective per game numbers for the two for the entirety of their careers. We know you won't because it kicks your POV squarely in the nuts. I cant because that would be wrong because Sammy has missed so many games.Are you suggesting that Mathews hasnt had big games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 No, it really depends upon the respective futures of the two franchises. If the players acquired by the Bills as a result of these trades (Matthews/Gaines/draft picks) are productive, and the Bills become a regular playoff participant, it doesn't matter what sort of career Sammy has. I grant that holistically, one should probably view it that way. I still think a probable 2018 potential franchise qb would be in a better position with Sammy as a #1 WR, but that is a hypothetical that will never play out, so you can't compare it to whatever actually happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Last I checked Mathews wasnt ruled out. Per target basis huh? Excellent except for when Sammy is doesnt feel like it. 7 game stretch in 2015 147 yards 29 receptions. Thats correct me if I am wrong 5.1 yards per catch. So now you're going to boil career per-game production down to a 7-game stretch in which he missed 3 full games and most of 2 others? Please don't ever change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 So now you're going to boil career per-game production down to a 7-game stretch in which he missed 3 full games and most of 2 others? Please don't ever change! Straight Trollin' Baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Straight Trollin' Baby! I actually am beginning to like this guy...seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 No, it really depends upon the respective futures of the two franchises. If the players acquired by the Bills as a result of these trades (Matthews/Gaines/draft picks) are productive, and the Bills become a regular playoff participant, it doesn't matter what sort of career Sammy has. Correct.......it's not that Marshawn Lynch put up great numbers.........it's that he became the identity of a great, physical, SB winning team.......he was even one carry away from beating our nemesis in a SB ......while the Bills went to sh*tsville. I really don't care if Sammy goes and puts up 1500 yards and 15 TD's per season for the next 10 years if the Bills win SB's.........but great players and great teams typically go hand-in-hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 WATCH: BEST HIGHLIGHTS OF TRAINING CAMP (2:05) Watch the best highlights from Training Camp 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 @TheBillsWire 31 takeaways from #Bills training camp (@jdiloro) http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/16/31-takeaways-from-the-2017-bills-training-camp/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 @TheBillsWire 31 takeaways from #Bills training camp (@jdiloro) http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/16/31-takeaways-from-the-2017-bills-training-camp/ Billswire has such great content. It's a shame they use slideshows which are a non-starter for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 Billswire has such great content. It's a shame they use slideshows which are a non-starter for me. It does make navigation a bit annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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