Most likely TANK theory I've heard thus far...

[John from Riverside]

 

I'm not so sure we've replaced the production of Zach and Robert with the new hires... If Sammy gets a major foot-ache week 2? Is it all on Zay as a rookie?

 

Admit it, if #14 goes out for an extended amount of time, we'd be looking at having to draft a new #1 WR... A strategic reduction in output could facilitate that endeavor...

We dont know if we have replaced it......it really depends on whether you are a glass is half full or empty person

 

Half empty - "we lost veteran players at key positions...unknowns are replacing them so we are going to lose"

 

Half full "we have promising players replacing key veteran players.....they might actually be better"

[SoTier]

haha, we are always "IN THE MIX"

 

that should be our slogan from the last 20 yrs. the Buffalo Bills...we aren't very good but at least we are IN THE MIX. being in the mix is why we haven't been able to rebuild correctly. the Colts hit rock bottom and got Peyton Manning and then did it again and got Andrew Luck. our GM and coach were there when the Panthers did it and ended up with Cam Newton. we have never hit bottom which is why we have nobody

 

Oh, boo hoo! If the stupid Bills had done their homework in the 2004 draft, they would have kept their 2005 first rounder instead of wasting it to take JP Losman and used it to draft Aaron Rodgers who lasted until GB took him at #25. Losman would have been there in the 2nd, and if he wasn't, they could have taken Schaub in rounds 2, 3 or 4 or just not bothered. The Bills had the 18th pick in the first round in 2005 but it went to Dallas. Of course, knowing the Bills, they would have probably used it to draft a DB since they hadn't used a first rounder on one since 2001.

 

As I said before, it's poor player evaluation, poor cap management, poor drafting, and poor coaching that's given the Bills their shoddy record over the last 20 years, and tanking isn't going to change any of that. They drafted #4 in 2001 and drafted a bust in OT Mike Williams (it seems to me that maybe the Bills scouts and draft gurus should have known that collegiate RTs seldom convert to pro LTs). They drafted #3 in 2011 and drafted Marcell Dareus rather than AJ Green. Dareus hasn't proven to be a game changer the way Green has been. The Bills long history of passing on diamonds to draft duds makes the idea of the team tanking to get the #1 pick and getting it right just too silly to comtemplate.

 

and are a lower caliber player than Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck imo. those guys were complete luck. Manning and Luck were sure things. we are only going to win 6 games this year. what's the difference between winning 3 and winning 6 if it gets you one of the 2 best QB's in the draft?

 

FYI

Indy with Luck: 2012 11-5 2nd division WC -- 2013 11-5 Division winner Won WC game -- 2014 11-5 Division winner Won WC game -- 2015 8-8 2nd division -- 2016 8-8 3rd division

 

Seattle with Wilson: 2012 11-5 2nd division WC Won WC game -- 2013 13-3 Division winner Won Divisional Round Won NFCC Won Super Bowl -- 2014 12-4 Division winner Won Divisional round -- 2015 10-6 2nd division WC Won WC game Won Divisional Round -- 2016 10-5-1 Division winner Won WC game

 

You can drool over Luck all you want, dude, but I'll take Russell Wilson hands down over him. The guy does what he has to do to win. A great QB isn't the guy with the big rep or the fancy stats, it's the guy who helps his team. That's Brady's trade mark. The one year he had all rookie receivers, he was passing for less than 150 yards a game but the Pats were winning. Wilson's done it repeatedly already, both in college and at Seattle. Luck hasn't.

 

The difference is three wins. The concept of tanking is absurd and should just be eliminated from the board. Players play to earn big contracts. Coaches and GMs want their teams to do the best they can to keep their jobs. The idea that there is some rationale to doing so because you'll get a sure fire QB or whatever is disproven by decades of data showing that there are very few sure fire picks in a draft. Guys like Elway and Manning come along rarely. Luck is used as an example, but the Colts have not won with him primarily because they have not put a team around him, giving the lie to the idea that a QB can win on his own (not having a team around him is why Luck had to have surgery and hasn't picked up a football in the offseason). Even Elway failed till Davis came along.

 

Go out there and compete.

 

Exactly this. Between 2001 and 2013, the 2002, 2006, 2007, 2010, and 2013 drafts together yielded exactly 1 QB who was better than a backup: Jay Cutler whom most don't consider a franchise QB. That's 38.5% of the draft classes that had no QB worth drafting in the first round. In four draft classes -- 2001, 2004, 2005, 2012 -- as good or better QBs were drafted after the QBs drafted #1. In 2008, the first QB drafted was Matt Ryan at #3, and he's better than Joe Flacco who was drafted at #18, but Flacco won a Super Bowl ring and was SB MVP, so he wasn't exactly chopped liver. In 2011, Newton went #1, but Ryan Tannehill and Andy Dalton are pretty good starters, too. Only in 2003 (Palmer) and 2009 (Stafford) did the #1 pick yield the only QB worth taking in first round of the draft, and neither won a Super Bowl, which is a pretty shabby 15%.

[KDIGGZ]

 

Oh, boo hoo! If the stupid Bills had done their homework in the 2004 draft, they would have kept their 2005 first rounder instead of wasting it to take JP Losman and used it to draft Aaron Rodgers who lasted until GB took him at #25. Losman would have been there in the 2nd, and if he wasn't, they could have taken Schaub in rounds 2, 3 or 4 or just not bothered. The Bills had the 18th pick in the first round in 2005 but it went to Dallas. Of course, knowing the Bills, they would have probably used it to draft a DB since they hadn't used a first rounder on one since 2001.

 

As I said before, it's poor player evaluation, poor cap management, poor drafting, and poor coaching that's given the Bills their shoddy record over the last 20 years, and tanking isn't going to change any of that. They drafted #4 in 2001 and drafted a bust in OT Mike Williams (it seems to me that maybe the Bills scouts and draft gurus should have known that collegiate RTs seldom convert to pro LTs). They drafted #3 in 2011 and drafted Marcell Dareus rather than AJ Green. Dareus hasn't proven to be a game changer the way Green has been. The Bills long history of passing on diamonds to draft duds makes the idea of the team tanking to get the #1 pick and getting it right just too silly to comtemplate.

 

 

FYI

Indy with Luck: 2012 11-5 2nd division WC -- 2013 11-5 Division winner Won WC game -- 2014 11-5 Division winner Won WC game -- 2015 8-8 2nd division -- 2016 8-8 3rd division

 

Seattle with Wilson: 2012 11-5 2nd division WC Won WC game -- 2013 13-3 Division winner Won Divisional Round Won NFCC Won Super Bowl -- 2014 12-4 Division winner Won Divisional round -- 2015 10-6 2nd division WC Won WC game Won Divisional Round -- 2016 10-5-1 Division winner Won WC game

 

You can drool over Luck all you want, dude, but I'll take Russell Wilson hands down over him. The guy does what he has to do to win. A great QB isn't the guy with the big rep or the fancy stats, it's the guy who helps his team. That's Brady's trade mark. The one year he had all rookie receivers, he was passing for less than 150 yards a game but the Pats were winning. Wilson's done it repeatedly already, both in college and at Seattle. Luck hasn't.

Luck was a sure thing. Wilson was just getting lucky. Nobody expected Wilson to be this good, he's too short. You are WAY more likely to find a franchise QB at the top of the 1st than in the later rounds. That's just common sense

[#34fan]

 

Actually it was 3 11-win seasons, in a weak AFC South. I mean in that 3 year stretch they went 16-2 against there own division. Ultimately, they got smacked around by New England in the playoffs. I think what you mean to say is, you'll take a deal where the Bills could play in a weak AFC South.

 

Of course the other teams in the AFC South, like the Titans and Texans, have had an influx of talent and the Colts are no longer able to run away with the division.

 

Weak AFC South?

 

You have some good points Dr. Zoidberg, but HOU went 12-4 with a playoff berth in 2012, the year the Colts drafted Luck!... HOU was 10-6 the year before! That team DID NOT suck..

 

By contrast the Colts went 2-14 in 2011, with thoughts of securing a Franchise QB in the '12 draft. -Which they DID...

 

Oddly enough, TEN scored Mariota 3rd overall after a SOLID tank performance in 2014! -Now look at them! -That's a SCARY team.

 

Even HOU pulled the ole 'tank-o-la' in '13, to score J.D. Clowney first overall in 14!

 

-Texans... Tennesee... That's three terrible teams that took turns tanking. -And it worked every time!

[oldmanfan]

Luck was a sure thing. Wilson was just getting lucky. Nobody expected Wilson to be this good, he's too short. You are WAY more likely to find a franchise QB at the top of the 1st than in the later rounds. That's just common sense

And way more likely to throw your team under the bus if you miss on one. Which happens more often than not.

 

Weak AFC South?

 

You have some good points Dr. Zoidberg, but HOU went 12-4 with a playoff berth in 2012, the year the Colts drafted Luck!... HOU was 10-6 the year before! That team DID NOT suck..

 

By contrast the Colts went 2-14 in 2011, with thoughts of securing a Franchise QB in the '12 draft. -Which they DID...

 

Oddly enough, TEN scored Mariota 3rd overall after a SOLID tank performance in 2014! -Now look at them! -That's a SCARY team.

 

Even HOU pulled the ole 'tank-o-la' in '13, to score J.D. Clowney first overall in 14!

 

-Texans... Tennesee... That's three terrible teams that took turns tanking. -And it worked every time!

Again, the word tank needs to be eliminated from this board, because it's ridiculous.

 

The Colts did not deliberately throw away their season when Manning got hurt. They went out and got Kerry Collins as a replacement. Collins however did not play well and then got injured in October and was out for the year. At that point you had Painter as the backup, not good enough but at that point in the season you aren't finding a better QB anywhere. Tennessee was simply a bad team; they did not tank, they were just bad. The Texans in 2013 saw Matt Schaub start his sudden decline, Foster got hurt midway through the year, and their pass D stunk. Plus they fired a HC midway through the season.

 

Teams that are bad do not tank. They are bad because of poor decisions, poor play from guys they count on, poor coaching, etc. Not because they decide to throw in the towel.

 

Walk into any NFL locker room and tell the players and coaches they should tank, and see if you make it out alive.

[KDIGGZ]

And way more likely to throw your team under the bus if you miss on one. Which happens more often than not.

I'll take my chances drafting a QB high overall every year until we get one! It's so crucial in the NFL game that you might as well not even show up on Sunday without a franchise QB. Check out the list of the recent AFC championshipl winners and see if you can spot a theme:

Edited June 26, 2017 by kdiggz

[26CornerBlitz]

I'll take my chances drafting a QB high overall every year until we get one! It's so crucial in the NFL game that you might as well not even show up on Sunday without a franchise QB. Check out the list of the recent AFC championshipl winners and see if you can spot a theme:

 

No NFL team would ever do that. It's not realistic.

[H2o]

I'll take my chances drafting a QB high overall every year until we get one! It's so crucial in the NFL game that you might as well not even show up on Sunday without a franchise QB. Check out the list of the recent AFC championshipl winners and see if you can spot a theme:

We need to draft QB's in the 6th until we get it right?

[KDIGGZ]

We need to draft QB's in the 6th until we get it right?

haha well the point was that you better have one of the best QB's in the game if you want to win. true, the Pats got lucklier than any team in history with Brady but the point being the QB is so important that you better be drafting one every year until you get one

 

No NFL team would ever do that. It's not realistic.

maybe not EVERY year but when there is a draft with good QB's projected to go 1 and 2 you better be tanking to get them. last year there weren't any QB's that fit that description. there weren't in 2013 or 2014 either. this year Darnold and Rosen are probably 1,2 and that doesn't even factor in other QB's who have had a ton of success and are expected to be great pros like Rudolph, Falk, or Allen. there might be 5 first round QB's this year. we better get whoever we think is the best out of the bunch AT ALL COSTS

[oldmanfan]

haha well the point was that you better have one of the best QB's in the game if you want to win. true, the Pats got lucklier than any team in history with Brady but the point being the QB is so important that you better be drafting one every year until you get one

 

maybe not EVERY year but when there is a draft with good QB's projected to go 1 and 2 you better be tanking to get them. last year there weren't any QB's that fit that description. there weren't in 2013 or 2014 either. this year Darnold and Rosen are probably 1,2 and that doesn't even factor in other QB's who have had a ton of success and are expected to be great pros like Rudolph, Falk, or Allen. there might be 5 first round QB's this year. we better get whoever we think is the best out of the bunch AT ALL COSTS

Tanking is not and will never be considered a cost by the players and coaches so the premise of the thread is ludicrous.

[KDIGGZ]

Tanking is not and will never be considered a cost by the players and coaches so the premise of the thread is ludicrous.

all they would have needed to do was start Cardale Jones. they can play as hard as they want, they aren't winning

[CommonCents]

Tanking is what the Jets did. Sure you can't directly go into the locker room and tell the players to lay down but you can strip the team of key players and veterans and refuse to address positions of need. Tanking in football is not hard, the Bills FO could have easily let Tyrod walk and pushed out Jones/Peterman.

 

At that point would the GM or coach have to ask the team to "tank"? A QB that raw is like a hole in the side of the ship, it's not a matter of if you will sink, just when you will hit bottom.

 

The Jets FO did exactly that. Poked a hole at QB and then widened it with the loss of key veterans like Marshall, Harris, etc. Again, you don't need to tell the players/coaches to lose the games intentionally when you intentionally increase the talent gap between your squad and the others.

 

Bowles has to know his time is up soon as well, soon as the ship starts sinking the FO can throw the captain overboard to make sure they hit rock bottom.

[oldmanfan]

all they would have needed to do was start Cardale Jones. they can play as hard as they want, they aren't winning

And did they? No.

[KDIGGZ]

And did they? No.

well they should have so they could guarantee a top QB in the draft. i think they are giving Tyrod 1 last shot and hoping they can still get a good QB in the draft but that's pretty risky since the Jets and 49ers will be gunning for the top QB's

[Augie]

We dont know if we have replaced it......it really depends on whether you are a glass is half full or empty person

 

Half empty - "we lost veteran players at key positions...unknowns are replacing them so we are going to lose"

 

Half full "we have promising players replacing key veteran players.....they might actually be better"

I'm going glass half full, at least long term. Maybe not this year....but soon.

[#34fan]

You guys made great points, but I can't help but feel that 2-14 (plus the 1st round picks we already have.) would put us in a position to re-up on EVERYTHING.... It's unique opportunity that may not come again anytime soon.

 

I can honestly say that If we were to pull a legit tank job. I could handle it MUCH better than I could another 7-9 season... Tanks for all your comments, fellas.. Tanks a lot.

Edited June 26, 2017 by #34fan

[JM2009]

Tanking is not and will never be considered a cost by the players and coaches so the premise of the thread is ludicrous.

This is true. Tell McCoy to tank. he'd want a trade.

[#34fan]

This is true. Tell McCoy to tank. he'd want a trade.

 

He might want a trade after another 7-win flameout... depends how it goes down...

[John from Riverside]

 

He might want a trade after another 7-win flameout... depends how it goes down...

Like I said...not really ready to concede another 7 win season till i see what this defense looks like on the field

[Punching Bag]

From the Buffalo News...

 

Kinda explains the cold-shoulder to guys like Maclin and Decker... I personally don't think Darnold or Rosen are worth it.

 

 

http://buffalonews.com/2017/06/24/jay-skurskis-bills-mailbag-buffalo-super-bowl-one-day-charles-clay-get-cut-controls-53-man-roster-anyway/

 

Perfect article for the conspiracy fans who like to slam Bills every time they have a chance, Why bother trading UP losing picks if you are trying to bottom out.