Most likely TANK theory I've heard thus far...

[teef]

 

Horrible examples... -GB had a superbowl-winning franchise QB in place.... Both HOU and PIT endured 6-win (tank-ish) seasons before striking gold with the picks you cited.

 

Tanking is a means to an end... Still, it's gotta be done right... Four wins or less... Any more than that and you haven't gone "all-in" on your tank

they weren't horrible examples at all...you just don't want to hear it.

[Guest NeckBeard]

they weren't horrible examples at all...you just don't want to hear it.

 

Exactly. The vast majority of examples I can find of teams who go from losers to winners simply hire good/competent HCs and GMs.

[teef]

 

Exactly. The vast majority of examples I can find of teams who go from losers to winners simply hire good/competent HCs and GMs.

of course. i get the idea of the tank, and i suppose there's certainly a place for it, but it's not what's happening to this team right now.

[mannc]

The idea of tanking an entire season for the chance to draft one player is so absurd that it's not worth discussing. What's not absurd is tanking a single game at the end of the season to improve draft position. What the Bills did last year was a textbook example and it worked to perfection. If they win that meaningless Jets game they draft 15, don't pick up an extra 1st rounder in 2018 and still don't have a chance to draft Mahomes or Watson. Not to mention m, the loss allowed them to pick significantly earlier in all the other rounds.

Edited June 28, 2017 by mannc

[#34fan]

they weren't horrible examples at all...you just don't want to hear it.

 

That PIT team started the 2003 season 4-2.. they would go on to win 2 of their last 10...

 

 

Exactly. The vast majority of examples I can find of teams who go from losers to winners simply hire good/competent HCs and GMs.

 

Something we haven't been able to do in almost two decades.

 

Look, the die-hard bills guy in me hopes you're right... Maybe we do turn a corner under this new leadership... Maybe Tyrod flourishes.. -it's possible...

 

Still, the business side of me says let's go ahead and get this over with... Once it's done, we'll have a lot of leverage, and some good options... If I'm the incoming GM, I find a nice, moist, towel to bite while I do what I have to do.

 

It's not being negative... -It's embracing an alternate perspective.

[Gugny]

 

It's not being negative... -It's embracing an alternate perspective.

 

Kellyanne Conway??

[Guest NeckBeard]

of course. i get the idea of the tank, and i suppose there's certainly a place for it, but it's not what's happening to this team right now.

 

Out of sheer curiosity, and because I'd reached that "I don't give a stink" point of life (middle age) years ago, I looked at the two most prominent examples of teams who'd gone sub-sub-sub .500, then had a resurgence in their subsequent years.

 

In 2007, the woeful Dolphins went 1-15. What did they do to remedy this problem?

 

1. They hired Bill Parcells as VP of football operations.

2. They hired a new GM.

3. They hired a new HC.

4. They drafted a bunch of guys in 2008 who were mostly pretty crappy. Look it up.

 

The Dolphins went 11-5, 7-9, 7-9, 6-10 (HC fired, temp in place), 7-9 (with new HC).

 

In 2008, the woeful Lions went defeated. What did they do to remedy this problem in 2009?

 

1. They hired a new HC.

2. They drafted Stafford.

3. They drafted a bunch of guys in 2009, and to be honest I think it was a fair to decent draft, and they collected some good players over the next few years.

 

The Lions went 2-14 then 6-10 then 10-6 then 4-12 then 7-9. Then they changed HC.

 

I still think that peoples' opinions are colored by the Polian glory years in Buffalo. That team went from stink to greatness in what we perceive was a short time, but it took many, many years for a competent front office to build a squad that could (and would) contend for years to come. Plus, free agency wasn't an issue then, because technically it didn't exist.

 

The best turnarounds in this league, i.e. "modern day NFL", start with FO and HC turnovers, and hiring the right people for one or both roles, but mostly likely those locked into a tandem. Look it up.

Edited June 28, 2017 by NeckBeard

[Guest NeckBeard]

 

That PIT team started the 2003 season 4-2.. they would go on to win 2 of their last 10...

 

 

Something we haven't been able to do in almost two decades.

 

Look, the die-hard bills guy in me hopes you're right... Maybe we do turn a corner under this new leadership... Maybe Tyrod flourishes.. -it's possible...

 

Still, the business side of me says let's go ahead and get this over with... Once it's done, we'll have a lot of leverage, and some good options... If I'm the incoming GM, I find a nice, moist, towel to bite while I do what I have to do.

 

It's not being negative... -It's embracing an alternate perspective.

 

The Bills had been in a unique position of having a very old owner, and, from the looks of it, having the very old owner delegating responsibilities to people who didn't know what they were doing. I'm not harshing on the late, great RW, believe me. I'm just saying that when you trot out guys like Marv Levy or TBD favorite Russ Brandon as your GM, you can't hire good HCs even in the "modern era", and your organization is DOA season after season, and as a fan you develop a strong belief that the problems start at the very top of the org.

 

I had opined on the now-former other board that, if in 5 years, the Pegulas hadn't gotten this right, I might look at this team through a different filter. The next year or so will tell me everything I need to know about what this org and team are about. Bob Kraft is not a football guy, and yet he made a handful of key hires who changed that trajectory of that moribund franchise. Let's hope that the Pegulas got it right this time.

[C.Biscuit97]

No matter who the Bills have at qb or on the roster, they are winning between 6-8 games. They can't tank even if they want to.

[#34fan]

The idea of tanking an entire season for the chance to draft one player is so absurd that it's not worth discussing. What's not absurd is tanking a single game at the end of the season to improve draft position. What the Bills did last year was a textbook example and it worked to perfection. If they win that meaningless Jets game they draft 15, don't pick up an extra 1st rounder in 2018 and still don't have a chance to draft Mahomes or Watson. Not to mention m, the loss allowed them to pick significantly earlier in all the other rounds.

 

W-w-w-w-ait a minute! -So YOU DO support the occasional tank-job!

 

In for a penny, -in for a pound... Full-throttle on a tank job could have meant Mahommes or, (for some of you) Trubisky.. -That's WITHOUT selling your firstborn, or breaking a sweat.

 

I think Beane gets it... he's not going too far without a franchise QB, or a franchise replacement on his D-line...

 

Kellyanne Conway??

 

Ugh, not that... Please, anything but that... I never appreciated how blessed we were with Dana Perino as the face of the administration... WOW. -those were the days.

[Gugny]

 

The Bills had been in a unique position of having a very old owner, and, from the looks of it, having the very old owner delegating responsibilities to people who didn't know what they were doing. I'm not harshing on the late, great RW, believe me. I'm just saying that when you trot out guys like Marv Levy or TBD favorite Russ Brandon as your GM, you can't hire good HCs even in the "modern era", and your organization is DOA season after season, and as a fan you develop a strong belief that the problems start at the very top of the org.

 

I had opined on the now-former other board that, if in 5 years, the Pegulas hadn't gotten this right, I might look at this team through a different filter. The next year or so will tell me everything I need to know about what this org and team are about. Bob Kraft is not a football guy, and yet he made a handful of key hires who changed that trajectory of that moribund franchise. Let's hope that the Pegulas got it right this time.

 

Ralph being old had nothing to do with the Bills not playing well. The Bills have been a crappy football team for the overwhelming majority of the seasons they've been in existence.

 

I think the Pegulas screwed the pooch with their handling of the team through the end of last season. But I also think they realized it and finally cleaned house/hired a GM to run this team without them meddling.

 

Well ... I hope so, anyway.

[Guest NeckBeard]

 

Ralph being old had nothing to do with the Bills not playing well. The Bills have been a crappy football team for the overwhelming majority of the seasons they've been in existence.

 

I think the Pegulas screwed the pooch with their handling of the team through the end of last season. But I also think they realized it and finally cleaned house/hired a GM to run this team without them meddling.

 

Well ... I hope so, anyway.

 

Ralph (or his delegate(s)) hired key people in that organization. He definitely did. He gave his personal stamp of approval to the Tom Donahoe / Greggg hirings, as an example. But my point remains, and maybe you didn't read earlier posting, that the problem with RW's organization started at the top, i.e. him.

Edited June 28, 2017 by NeckBeard

[Gugny]

 

Ralph (or his delegate(s)) hired key people in that organization. He definitely did. He gave his personal stamp of approval to the Tom Donahoe / Greggg hirings, as an example. But my point remains, and maybe you didn't read earlier posting, that the problem with RW's organization started at the top, i.e. him.

 

I get that. My point is that he simply wasn't a very good owner. Not as a young man and not as an old man.

[teef]

 

Out of sheer curiosity, and because I'd reached that "I don't give a stink" point of life (middle age) years ago, I looked at the two most prominent examples of teams who'd gone sub-sub-sub .500, then had a resurgence in their subsequent years.

 

In 2007, the woeful Dolphins went 1-15. What did they do to remedy this problem?

 

1. They hired Bill Parcells as VP of football operations.

2. They hired a new GM.

3. They hired a new HC.

4. They drafted a bunch of guys in 2008 who were mostly pretty crappy. Look it up.

 

The Dolphins went 11-5, 7-9, 7-9, 6-10 (HC fired, temp in place), 7-9 (with new HC).

 

In 2008, the woeful Lions went defeated. What did they do to remedy this problem in 2009?

 

1. They hired a new HC.

2. They drafted Stafford.

3. They drafted a bunch of guys in 2009, and to be honest I think it was a fair to decent draft, and they collected some good players over the next few years.

 

The Lions went 2-14 then 6-10 then 10-6 then 4-12 then 7-9. Then they changed HC.

 

I still think that peoples' opinions are colored by the Polian glory years in Buffalo. That team went from stink to greatness in what we perceive was a short time, but it took many, many years for a competent front office to build a squad that could (and would) contend for years to come. Plus, free agency wasn't an issue then, because technically it didn't exist.

 

The best turnarounds in this league, i.e. "modern day NFL", start with FO and HC turnovers, and hiring the right people for one or both roles, but mostly likely those locked into a tandem. Look it up.

excellent post.

[Guest NeckBeard]

 

I get that. My point is that he simply wasn't a very good owner. Not as a young man and not as an old man.

 

OK, so we agree, but albeit in a roundabout way. Very cool. Yes, he was bad. Real, real bad. I grew up in NT, and was an early teen during the 1983-5 seasons. We'd spent the late summers / early falls turning off the games early, riding our Huffy bikes up to 7-11 on the Boulevard, eating nachos, and having slurpees while sitting on the curb, and basically being dismissive of the whole thing. Sucked. Plus, when my grandparents still lived downtown (Buffalo), the Bills would make my 65 year old grandfather cry on a weekly basis, and he was the most sour person in the world, a WWII vet, and an awoved non-crier. He said they moved to Florida because of "the weather". No, I think it was that this team was contributing to his angina.

[mannc]

 

W-w-w-w-ait a minute! -So YOU DO support the occasional tank-job!

 

In for a penny, -in for a pound... Full-throttle on a tank job could have meant Mahommes or, (for some of you) Trubisky.. -That's WITHOUT selling your firstborn, or breaking a sweat.

 

I think Beane gets it... he's not going too far without a franchise QB, or a franchise replacement on his D-line...

.

If you think anyone is going to tank for a defensive lineman you are beyond delusional.

[Buffalo Bills Detective]

If you think anyone is going to tank for a defensive lineman you are beyond delusional.

I would think that, a couple years back, most Bills fans would have gladly sold off half the team, in order to tank the 2013 season so that they could take Clowney.

[#34fan]

 

Out of sheer curiosity, and because I'd reached that "I don't give a stink" point of life (middle age) years ago, I looked at the two most prominent examples of teams who'd gone sub-sub-sub .500, then had a resurgence in their subsequent years.

 

In 2007, the woeful Dolphins went 1-15. What did they do to remedy this problem?

 

1. They hired Bill Parcells as VP of football operations.

2. They hired a new GM.

3. They hired a new HC.

4. They drafted a bunch of guys in 2008 who were mostly pretty crappy. Look it up.

 

The Dolphins went 11-5, 7-9, 7-9, 6-10 (HC fired, temp in place), 7-9 (with new HC).

 

 

 

-This short-lived aberration was fueled by a variety of components. Although, you could have started and ended with this one:

 

 

 

1. They hired Bill Parcells as VP of football operations.

 

 

They made the fish look like an actual football team... Acquiring a resurgent Chad Pennington was an excellent move... Drafting a pro-bowl left tackle (Jake Long) for a team that allowed 42 sacks the season before was a great move.

A resurgent Ricky Williams, and Ronnie Brown did their parts... Two freebies from the Bills and their third-round QB helped too...

 

Bottom Line: -They HAD to go 1-15 for any of the aforementioned to happen in the first place... The TANK was what facilitated their 11-win comeback season.

 

It's a big pill.. I don't blame you guys for not buying in... Remember when Golum came back to haunt Sméagol with his "I told you so" speech??? -See you guys at 7-7!!!

[Guest NeckBeard]

I would think that, a couple years back, most Bills fans would have gladly sold off half the team, in order to tank the 2013 season so that they could take Clowney.

 

You know. I think I agree with this. Tanking and Bills fandom is a constant talking point with some. We could have tanked for Luck. We could have tanked for Clowney. We could have tanked for blah-blah. And yet, if you drop a vase so that it's broken into a million pieces, would you trust guys like Marv, Russ, or Doug Whaley to the task of piecing it all back together so that it doesn't leak water anymore? I wouldn't!

[mannc]

I would think that, a couple years back, most Bills fans would have gladly sold off half the team, in order to tank the 2013 season so that they could take Clowney.

Then they would have been morons, especially in that draft class.