St. Doug Laying the Groundwork

[boyst]

 

I think the Bills make the playoffs if Doug had stayed.

 

Wrex wrecked it:(

hate these times. I'd have kept Fitz. Let Manuel learn. Ditch him if we had to. But fitz until his contract ran out. Still pursue Taylor like crazy. Marrone gets us to the playoffs. His contract is up last year I think it was or just fire him after the playoff year and promote his coordinator or find someone else in a system who wins to bring in.

[White Linen]

hate these times. I'd have kept Fitz. Let Manuel learn. Ditch him if we had to. But fitz until his contract ran out. Still pursue Taylor like crazy. Marrone gets us to the playoffs. His contract is up last year I think it was or just fire him after the playoff year and promote his coordinator or find someone else in a system who wins to bring in.

 

What the....

 

I want to say you had me going but then I was like - is he trying to?

[eball]

Ultimately the decision he made to accept the buyout worked out for him. Is he in a better situation? That's for him to decide. He made a decision based on what he wanted to do, not what others think he should have done.

 

You constantly portray his decision to accept the buyout as an act of betrayal. That characterization doesn't resonate with me. As with anyone else he made an employment decision based on what was best for him and his family. You act as if he didn't fail to live up to his contract. That's not an accurate depiction of the situation. He simply acted within the terms of his contract. What's your problem with that?

 

Doug Marrone isn't the only coach to ask out. Mike Mularkey also accepted a buyout to get away from the pervasive dysfunction of the organization. He is now a HC. Ask him if he is glad to have left the chaotic scene in western NY?

 

In the long run Marrone made a decision that benefited him. But his departure might also have benefited the Bills if this current HC works out as well as I think he will.

 

I don't understand your long standing campaign against the dour former coach. I have no ill-will toward him and basically could care less how he does in his current situation.

 

John, there are only 32 NFL head coaching jobs in the world. 32. I think Mularkey was a dumbass when he quit, and I think Marrone was a dumbass when he quit -- the only saving grace for Marrone is that his agent negotiated an opt-out clause. I'm not arguing that he wasn't perfectly within his rights to opt out -- he most certainly was. I'm saying it was a dumb decision, and I'll say something else -- I think Marrone himself would say that now. He was arrogant and basically sabotaged himself for two years because Pegula didn't give him total control when he asked for it. What does he have now? He is under Coughlin's thumb.

 

I don't understand why this is so hard for some to understand. I think Marrone showed weakness in character and fortitude by giving up on what he had started building in Buffalo for two seasons -- he did this out of pure arrogance and didn't even speak to his players. He clearly thought he had another job immediately lined up (Jets) and wound up with egg on his face. I don't care that he got paid for quitting -- it's not my money. He gave up one of 32 unique jobs in the world for no good reason.

 

Yes, I tried to put a happy face on the Rex hiring. I did not realize, until last season in particular, what a complete buffoon he was (and not a hard worker). I give you full credit for nailing that one from the get-go.

 

It's curious how certain posters love to come at the optimists among us -- jmc12290 is the latest example in this thread -- because we don't gloom and doom ourselves through life. I'm not "hurt" because Marrone quit -- I'm frustrated that my favorite football team has had to go through this nonsense for 17 years running. Marrone is an easy target because he actually appeared to be putting a competent product on the field but then quit. And he did quit, even if he was handsomely paid for doing so. For that, is it really that surprising to see that many Bills fans do not wish him well?

[outsidethebox]

Why do Bills fans act like jilted lovers when someone leaves? Get over it. It's pathetic.

[BringBackOrton]

 

John, there are only 32 NFL head coaching jobs in the world. 32. I think Mularkey was a dumbass when he quit, and I think Marrone was a dumbass when he quit -- the only saving grace for Marrone is that his agent negotiated an opt-out clause. I'm not arguing that he wasn't perfectly within his rights to opt out -- he most certainly was. I'm saying it was a dumb decision, and I'll say something else -- I think Marrone himself would say that now. He was arrogant and basically sabotaged himself for two years because Pegula didn't give him total control when he asked for it. What does he have now? He is under Coughlin's thumb.

 

I don't understand why this is so hard for some to understand. I think Marrone showed weakness in character and fortitude by giving up on what he had started building in Buffalo for two seasons -- he did this out of pure arrogance and didn't even speak to his players. He clearly thought he had another job immediately lined up (Jets) and wound up with egg on his face. I don't care that he got paid for quitting -- it's not my money. He gave up one of 32 unique jobs in the world for no good reason.

 

Yes, I tried to put a happy face on the Rex hiring. I did not realize, until last season in particular, what a complete buffoon he was (and not a hard worker). I give you full credit for nailing that one from the get-go.

 

It's curious how certain posters love to come at the optimists among us -- jmc12290 is the latest example in this thread -- because we don't gloom and doom ourselves through life. I'm not "hurt" because Marrone quit -- I'm frustrated that my favorite football team has had to go through this nonsense for 17 years running. Marrone is an easy target because he actually appeared to be putting a competent product on the field but then quit. And he did quit, even if he was handsomely paid for doing so. For that, is it really that surprising to see that many Bills fans do not wish him well?

Opting out is not quitting. I'm not sure how many times you need to have this told to you. When Lebron opts out of the last year of his contract, it's not quitting. It seems a simple concept.

 

I don't care if you're an optimist or pessimist. I just want you to be honest about why you hate Marrone. Its because you feel like he left you at the altar and no candle can compare to the sun.

[artmalibu]

Ultimately reading this article makes me realize nothing's changed with the man. His way or the highway still.

 

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/sports/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/jaguars-hc-doug-marrone-wants-his-players-to-have-coachability-and-availability-moving-forward/448473836

 

I think Bill B is the same so is that bad? Or is a Rex anything goes better?

[rant_and_go]

God forbid a professional sports head coach wants "coachability and availability" from his professional players. Lol.

 

Is that really too much to ask of grown men who make millions upon millions of dollars? I mean, that is exactly what they're paid for.

 

Seriously, is there really an issue with this statement?

 

"“If you’re not coachable, you’re not going to be able to play," Marrone said on Tuesday. "If you’re not available, you’re not going to be able to play. Biggest mistake I can make as a head coach is put somebody out there that isn’t ready or hasn’t practiced. I’m letting the fans down, I’m letting the team down, I’m letting you down, I’m letting everybody down.""

 

I hope McDermott is the same way, because you know who else has been that way? Belichick, Parcells, Lombardi and some of the best coaches in the history of the NFL. That's why they win.

 

(And it's been a huge reason why the Bills don't win.)

Let's get 40 year old Kyle Orton running the read-option

[eball]

Opting out is not quitting. I'm not sure how many times you need to have this told to you. When Lebron opts out of the last year of his contract, it's not quitting. It seems a simple concept.

 

I don't care if you're an optimist or pessimist. I just want you to be honest about why you hate Marrone. Its because you feel like he left you at the altar and no candle can compare to the sun.

 

Dude, when you're wrong, you're wrong -- and I don't know why you keep pushing this angle.

[JohnC]

 

John, there are only 32 NFL head coaching jobs in the world. 32. I think Mularkey was a dumbass when he quit, and I think Marrone was a dumbass when he quit -- the only saving grace for Marrone is that his agent negotiated an opt-out clause. I'm not arguing that he wasn't perfectly within his rights to opt out -- he most certainly was. I'm saying it was a dumb decision, and I'll say something else -- I think Marrone himself would say that now. He was arrogant and basically sabotaged himself for two years because Pegula didn't give him total control when he asked for it. What does he have now? He is under Coughlin's thumb.

 

I don't understand why this is so hard for some to understand. I think Marrone showed weakness in character and fortitude by giving up on what he had started building in Buffalo for two seasons -- he did this out of pure arrogance and didn't even speak to his players. He clearly thought he had another job immediately lined up (Jets) and wound up with egg on his face. I don't care that he got paid for quitting -- it's not my money. He gave up one of 32 unique jobs in the world for no good reason.

 

Yes, I tried to put a happy face on the Rex hiring. I did not realize, until last season in particular, what a complete buffoon he was (and not a hard worker). I give you full credit for nailing that one from the get-go.

 

It's curious how certain posters love to come at the optimists among us -- jmc12290 is the latest example in this thread -- because we don't gloom and doom ourselves through life. I'm not "hurt" because Marrone quit -- I'm frustrated that my favorite football team has had to go through this nonsense for 17 years running. Marrone is an easy target because he actually appeared to be putting a competent product on the field but then quit. And he did quit, even if he was handsomely paid for doing so. For that, is it really that surprising to see that many Bills fans do not wish him well?

On this topic you and I will never come to an accord. People have a right to make decisions for themselves. Whether you or I agree with the decision is irrelevant. Whether Marrone's decision was wrong for him is for him to decide. In the long run it worked out for him.

 

Your constant characterization of him being arrogant and unpleasant is undoubtedly true. But who cares? He is in a profession where many HCs are arrogant and not pleasant to deal with. You point out that he was behind the scenes maneuvering for the Jet job. That wasn't a state secret. It was well known that overtures were made between the Marrone camp and the Jet organization. Because of the rumors the Jets quickly backed off out of fear of being accused of tampering. It was also reported that Marrone was under consideration for the University of Michigan job. What does that tell you? He wanted out.

 

Basically what you are criticizing him for is not being satisfied with his current employment situation and acting on it when he is fully within his rights to do so. While you criticize him I take the opposite view. If you want out then get out! And that is what he did. There is nothing wrong for a HC to want more authority. And there is nothing wrong for the owner to say no. This happens all the time. Buffalo under the wrestling coach being a good example of it.

 

Kevin Durrant wanted to leave OKC in the NBA. Contractually he had the authority to make a move. And he did. You may have problems with his exiting the Oklahoma scene but I don't. LeBron left Cleveland for Miami. Then he left Miami for Cleveland. That's his right.

 

You act as if loyalty by owners, players, coaches and staff is a noble concept in a pristine business. Your sanctimonious attitude in a cut throat and treacherous business is very much misplaced.

 

While you stew in the juices of resentment toward a former indistinguishable HC I don't harbor any ill-will toward him. Or another way of saying it is that I simply don't care much about him now. What I do care more about is our current new HC doing well. And that is not to say that the wrestling coach doesn't also have some unappealing traits that are tiresome. Marrone without question was/is arrogant and controlling. You don't think that McDermott isn't also a tad bit arrogant and controlling?

 

If Marrone would have stayed with Buffalo I'm sure that he still would have inevitably departed the scene a little later. He's a prickly personality who is difficult to take on a long term basis. As everyone knows the damaging mistake was not that he left but it was the hire who replaced him. It's time to move on and not linger on something that is not worth lingering on. Let it go.

[Doc]

I was glad Marrone quit. But I wish Schwartz had stayed.

[BringBackOrton]

 

Dude, when you're wrong, you're wrong -- and I don't know why you keep pushing this angle.

How so? Please explain to me why any person should show loyalty to a business as cut throat as professional sports? I get that you like to spin yourself tales about loyalty and all that nonsense, but if Marrone sucked, the Bills wouldn't have shown him any loyalty. Why can't he do the same? Do you hate Gilmore because he took the most money possible instead of showing "loyalty?" If Gilmore took less money then started to suck, would the Bills show him "loyalty?"

 

Was Lebron a quitter for opting out? If Chris Paul opts out, is he a quitter?

 

You seem to hold people to these fictional arbitrary standards. You really couldn't be more wrong.

[Fan in Chicago]

 

John, there are only 32 NFL head coaching jobs in the world. 32. I think Mularkey was a dumbass when he quit, and I think Marrone was a dumbass when he quit -- the only saving grace for Marrone is that his agent negotiated an opt-out clause. I'm not arguing that he wasn't perfectly within his rights to opt out -- he most certainly was. I'm saying it was a dumb decision, and I'll say something else -- I think Marrone himself would say that now. He was arrogant and basically sabotaged himself for two years because Pegula didn't give him total control when he asked for it. What does he have now? He is under Coughlin's thumb.

 

 

 

On this topic you and I will never come to an accord. People have a right to make decisions for themselves. Whether you or I agree with the decision is irrelevant. Whether Marrone's decision was wrong for him is for him to decide. In the long run it worked out for him.

 

Your constant characterization of him being arrogant and unpleasant is undoubtedly true. But who cares? He is in a profession where many HCs are arrogant and not pleasant to deal with. You point out that he was behind the scenes maneuvering for the Jet job. That wasn't a state secret. It was well known that overtures were made between the Marrone camp and the Jet organization. Because of the rumors the Jets quickly backed off out of fear of being accused of tampering. It was also reported that Marrone was under consideration for the University of Michigan job. What does that tell you? He wanted out.

 

 

 

 

I am closer to John;s position on this than eball's. I argue that despite his personality and arrogant behavior, he could have shown good results in a year or two more. Just as his best decision was to select Schwartz, his biggest mistake was in selecting Hackett esp for a rookie QB. If he had chosen an experienced OC, I think we could have been in the playoffs in year 2 or definitely by year 3 of his tenure. Despite his personality, his players played hard for him. He could have been a Coughlin type of coach (who later modified his behaviorr but was known to be a rough personality earlier on).

As for his departure, he was well within his rights to leave. He should have spoken to his players however. He may have demanded more control of the team from the Pegulas and may have left when it wasnt given. But Pegula's also acted strangely - they refused to do that and yet dd exactly that 3 years later to McDermott (a rookie HC). I wouldnt place total blame on Marrone for the conditions leading to his departure. I do blame him for the way he handled it though. Ultimately, the team would have been far better with him as coach for the past 2 years.

[JohnC]

Agree.

 

However Tyrod has been the least of the issues the past couple years.

 

More so Rex was just a lazy, bad coach and his defense followed suit. They could've easily been a playoff team the past couple years if the defensive coaching wasn't so god awful.

While I agree with what you are saying I have a slightly different perspective. You are right that Tyrod was not our biggest problem. But that is not to say because he wasn't the biggest problem that he was a satisfactory solution that would get this team anywhere consequential. I strongly believe that if Marrone would have stayed or if Schwartz would have been the HC the Bills would have probably been a wild-card team. Would they have been able to win a playoff game? I doubt it.

 

I hate going over the same sordid Rex history. I feel I need to take a bath after discussing his sloppy tenure. What I don't understand is that Rex had a work record. He left the Jets in shambles. How the Pegulas allowed themselves to be conned is a mystery to me.?

[eball]

How so? Please explain to me why any person should show loyalty to a business as cut throat as professional sports? I get that you like to spin yourself tales about loyalty and all that nonsense, but if Marrone sucked, the Bills wouldn't have shown him any loyalty. Why can't he do the same? Do you hate Gilmore because he took the most money possible instead of showing "loyalty?" If Gilmore took less money then started to suck, would the Bills show him "loyalty?"

 

Was Lebron a quitter for opting out? If Chris Paul opts out, is he a quitter?

 

You seem to hold people to these fictional arbitrary standards. You really couldn't be more wrong.

 

You're wrong about ME and my feelings. I'm fine with people disagreeing about the circumstances of Marrone leaving.

[BringBackOrton]

 

You're wrong about ME and my feelings. I'm fine with people disagreeing about the circumstances of Marrone leaving.

You said it yourself dude. You spent two years trying to convince yourself Rex was really "the one." Because you were trying to get over the Marrone breakup.

[JohnC]

I was glad Marrone quit. But I wish Schwartz had stayed.

If Schwartz would have been named the HC this franchise would now be more stable and not be going through another excruciating rebuilding process. Progress was made under Marrone and that steady progress under Schwartz would have continued.

[eball]

On this topic you and I will never come to an accord. People have a right to make decisions for themselves. Whether you or I agree with the decision is irrelevant. Whether Marrone's decision was wrong for him is for him to decide. In the long run it worked out for him.

 

Your constant characterization of him being arrogant and unpleasant is undoubtedly true. But who cares? He is in a profession where many HCs are arrogant and not pleasant to deal with. You point out that he was behind the scenes maneuvering for the Jet job. That wasn't a state secret. It was well known that overtures were made between the Marrone camp and the Jet organization. Because of the rumors the Jets quickly backed off out of fear of being accused of tampering. It was also reported that Marrone was under consideration for the University of Michigan job. What does that tell you? He wanted out.

 

Basically what you are criticizing him for is not being satisfied with his current employment situation and acting on it when he is fully within his rights to do so. While you criticize him I take the opposite view. If you want out then get out! And that is what he did. There is nothing wrong for a HC to want more authority. And there is nothing wrong for the owner to say no. This happens all the time. Buffalo under the wrestling coach being a good example of it.

 

Kevin Durrant wanted to leave OKC in the NBA. Contractually he had the authority to make a move. And he did. You may have problems with his exiting the Oklahoma scene but I don't. LeBron left Cleveland for Miami. Then he left Miami for Cleveland. That's his right.

 

You act as if loyalty by owners, players, coaches and staff is a noble concept in a pristine business. Your sanctimonious attitude in a cut throat and treacherous business is very much misplaced.

 

While you stew in the juices of resentment toward a former indistinguishable HC I don't harbor any ill-will toward him. Or another way of saying it is that I simply don't care much about him now. What I do care more about is our current new HC doing well. And that is not to say that the wrestling coach doesn't also have some unappealing traits that are tiresome. Marrone without question was/is arrogant and controlling. You don't think that McDermott isn't also a tad bit arrogant and controlling?

 

If Marrone would have stayed with Buffalo I'm sure that he still would have inevitably departed the scene a little later. He's a prickly personality who is difficult to take on a long term basis. As everyone knows the damaging mistake was not that he left but it was the hire who replaced him. It's time to move on and not linger on something that is not worth lingering on. Let it go.

 

You're quite dramatic. My position is extremely simple. Anyone who voluntarily relinquishes one of 32 unique, high profile jobs in the world should have his head examined.

You said it yourself dude. You spent two years trying to convince yourself Rex was really "the one." Because you were trying to get over the Marrone breakup.

 

You're very strange. I want every coach hired by the Bills to be "the one." Get over yourself.

[H2o]

If Schwartz would have been named the HC this franchise would now be more stable and not be going through another excruciating rebuilding process. Progress was made under Marrone and that steady progress under Schwartz would have continued.

 

The defense would have stayed top 5 under Schwartz for sure. We likely would have made the playoffs as well if you ask me. All hypothetical though.

[BringBackOrton]

 

You're quite dramatic. My position is extremely simple. Anyone who voluntarily relinquishes one of 32 unique, high profile jobs in the world should have his head examined.

 

 

You're very strange. I want every coach hired by the Bills to be "the one." Get over yourself.

Durant voluntarily relinquished 1 of 30 unique positions in the world. Is he stupid too?

[Doc]

If Schwartz would have been named the HC this franchise would now be more stable and not be going through another excruciating rebuilding process. Progress was made under Marrone and that steady progress under Schwartz would have continued.

Possibly. It depends on who they could've gotten at quarterback. I still think Rex was the driving force behind getting Tyrod who, while not ideal, was and had been the best option for them given the choices available to them in the draft or free agency.