mannc Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Well I haven't advocated them doing that. I simply said if we sign Maclin and had Rivers (pure hypothetical) then we would be a contender in a wide open AFC outside of that one team we all know about. You questioned that and said you'd rather have Taylor. Apologies if what you meant was you'd rather have Taylor than the trade... so would I at a price of 3 1sts.... but it read like you were saying all thing being equal you'd rather have Tyrod. That to me would be ridiculous. I know you were not advocating trading no. 1 picks for Rivers. To answer your question, though, I would rather have Tyrod than Rivers for 2017. Rivers is 36 years old, is coming off a down year, and he carries a huge cap number. His team has not won more than 9 games in a season since 2009. He is no longer a franchise QB (if he ever was one in the first place). Based on his relative lack of starting experience, having better weapons at his disposal, and what I think will be a better system for him to operate in, I expect Tyrod to be much improved in 2017. It's also worth mentioning that Rivers is a statue. Edited June 7, 2017 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 I know you were not advocating trading no. 1 picks for Rivers. To answer your question, though, I would rather have Tyrod than Rivers for 2017. Rivers is 36 years old, is coming off a down year, and he carries a huge cap number. His team has not won more than 9 games in a season since 2009. He is no longer a franchise QB (if he ever was one in the first place). Based on his relative lack of starting experience, having better weapons at his disposal, and what I think will be a better system for him to operate in, I expect Tyrod to be much improved in 2017. It's also worth mentioning that Rivers is a statue. Woah! You may be the only man on that particular hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poleshifter Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Every QB you mentioned has far more value to their respective team than Phillip Rivers. As usual, you contribute nothing to the topic except your own terrible opinions as if anyone thinks your snark is in the least bit amusing or clever. I think plans that constitute watching this team sputter until hopefully the savior comes 3+ years from now are terribly upsetting. 26CornerBlitz adding nothing to a topic? Hah! That's pretty funny. Who has a plan taking 3+ years? Are you just pulling this stuff out of your ass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Woah! You may be the only man on that particular hill. So be it. I explained my position. Feel free to show me where I'm wrong. As you yourself said upthread, Rivers is 36 years old, coming off one of the worst years of his career, and has led his team to five or less wins the last two years. I think maybe you should explain why you would rather have Rivers. Edited June 7, 2017 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Woah! You may be the only man on that particular hill. He isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 So be it. I explained my position. Feel free to show me where I'm wrong. watching taylor play for 2 years is enough to see he isn't in Rivers league , even at 36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 watching taylor play for 2 years is enough to see he isn't in Rivers league , even at 36 Oh, OK. The "eye test" ... You win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Oh, OK. The "eye test" ... You win. what else is there. Taylor can't throw with anticipation which makes him a running back who can throw a deep ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Woah! You may be the only man on that particular hill. Nope. I agree with mannc. Rivers was horrible last season. At 36 years old, the chances of him improving to become the kind of passer he was 8 or 9 years ago are much less than the chances of Taylor stepping up to become a QB good enough to lead a team to the playoffs. Moreover, what it would take to get Rivers, including whatever the Bills would trade for him plus his 2017 salary, would limit the Bills' ability for improvement elsewhere. At the present time, Rivers wouldn't be a good fit for the Bills: too old, too immobile, too expensive -- and maybe done for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 ,,...where does these wild azz proposals come from?....he has a no trade clause.....he is a west coast guy.....Bflo is on the quasi east coast.....at least chase Brady or Rogers who are close by (COUGH).....Eli is downstate..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Rivers is even a worse choke artist than Hotrod. No thanks. No trade for me. Stick with the man, Hotrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 26CornerBlitz adding nothing to a topic? Hah! That's pretty funny. Who has a plan taking 3+ years? Are you just pulling this stuff out of your ass? Yeah, he added nothing. To answer your question, the guy I responded to was talking about planning for a new QB taking the helm in 2019. I normally don't respond to folks with less than 100 posts for this very reason. Too much time spouting off and too little time reading. So be it. I explained my position. Feel free to show me where I'm wrong. As you yourself said upthread, Rivers is 36 years old, coming off one of the worst years of his career, and has led his team to five or less wins the last two years. I think maybe you should explain why you would rather have Rivers. I think Rivers got unlucky and had a "down" year, like most QB's not named Brady or Rodgers have every once in a while. He's one year removed from 4700 yards, 29 TD's and 13 INT's. I think it's likely he returns to that form for at least 1 to 2 years. And with those numbers, I find it hard to lay the blame of the last two seasons entirely on him, but him having a down year and the team unable to be successful with him on the roster both made him easier to attain. Rivers is one of the better QB's in the NFL, can make all the throws, can run a two minute drill, and is consistently above average almost every week. I think it's clear why I'd take him over TT in 2017. Is there any doubt guys like Clay and Sammy would be utilized much more with Rivers under center? His skill set would take advantage of our three best players on offense, Shady, Watkins and Clay. And seeing as our defensive improvement this year will be limited, I think the only way for the Bills to be competitive in 2017 is to improve the offense even more. Rivers would do that. Nope. I agree with mannc. Rivers was horrible last season. At 36 years old, the chances of him improving to become the kind of passer he was 8 or 9 years ago are much less than the chances of Taylor stepping up to become a QB good enough to lead a team to the playoffs. Moreover, what it would take to get Rivers, including whatever the Bills would trade for him plus his 2017 salary, would limit the Bills' ability for improvement elsewhere. At the present time, Rivers wouldn't be a good fit for the Bills: too old, too immobile, too expensive -- and maybe done for. We are talking all things being equal now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) I think Rivers got unlucky and had a "down" year, like most QB's not named Brady or Rodgers have every once in a while. He's one year removed from 4700 yards, 29 TD's and 13 INT's. I think it's likely he returns to that form for at least 1 to 2 years. And with those numbers, I find it hard to lay the blame of the last two seasons entirely on him, but him having a down year and the team unable to be successful with him on the roster both made him easier to attain. Rivers is one of the better QB's in the NFL, can make all the throws, can run a two minute drill, and is consistently above average almost every week. I think it's clear why I'd take him over TT in 2017. Is there any doubt guys like Clay and Sammy would be utilized much more with Rivers under center? His skill set would take advantage of our three best players on offense, Shady, Watkins and Clay. And seeing as our defensive improvement this year will be limited, I think the only way for the Bills to be competitive in 2017 is to improve the offense even more. Rivers would do that. When a guy is 36 years old, down years usually can't be attributed to bad luck. It could be Rivers was just unlucky last year, but it's more likely that he's in decline. As to 2015, his numbers were definitely better, but the team finished 4-12. I don't follow the Chargers and I doubt I watched a single one of their games in 2015, but I'm guessing a lot of his yards and TDs were in garbage time. At any rate, I think Rivers is a pretty good QB, but he's certainly not one for whom I would trade much of value, at least at this point in his career. He hasn't won more than 9 games in a season since 2009, and even when he was winning a lot of games, he had a history of playing poorly in big games. In my mind, that's not a true franchise QB. Tyrod is far from perfect, but he does a lot of things well and, IMO, he's got upside, while Rivers is unquestionably in the twilight of his career. And Rivers is a statue. Edited June 8, 2017 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racketmaster Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) Woah! You may be the only man on that particular hill.[/quote. Add me to the hill as well. It's getting pretty crowded up here because mannc makes too much sense. Edited June 8, 2017 by racketmaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Where does this fantasy stuff come from. Why not Matt Ryan or Rodgers. Cmon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) When a guy is 36 years old, down years usually can't be attributed to bad luck. It could be Rivers was just unlucky last year, but it's more likely that he's in decline. As to 2015, his numbers were definitely better, but the team finished 4-12. I don't follow the Chargers and I doubt I watched a single one of their games in 2015, but I'm guessing a lot of his yards and TDs were in garbage time. At any rate, I think Rivers is a pretty good QB, but he's certainly not one for whom I would trade much of value, at least at this point in his career. He hasn't won more than 9 games in a season since 2009, and even when he was winning a lot of games, he had a history of playing poorly in big games. In my mind, that's not a true franchise QB. Tyrod is far from perfect, but he does a lot of things well and, IMO, he's got upside, while Rivers is unquestionably in the twilight of his career. And Rivers is a statue. That's really unfair. 12 of their 16 games in 2015 had final score differentials of 8 points or less. 11 of their 16 had final score differentials of 7 points or less. That was 8 of their losses that year. And looking at 2016, 13 of their 16 games had final score differentials of 8 or less. 9 of their losses. You don't even watch Rivers but you're assuming he's in decline? I assure you, at this juncture, Rivers is a leagues better passer than TT. Mobility is nice, but QB ability is better. Brady is also a statue. Edited June 8, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perk71 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I would rather stay with Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 That's really unfair. 12 of their 16 games in 2015 had final score differentials of 8 points or less. 11 of their 16 had final score differentials of 7 points or less. That was 8 of their losses that year. And looking at 2016, 13 of their 16 games had final score differentials of 8 or less. 9 of their losses. You don't even watch Rivers but you're assuming he's in decline? I assure you, at this juncture, Rivers is a leagues better passer than TT. Mobility is nice, but QB ability is better. Brady is also a statue. 6 of our 8 losses (with Tyrod) were by 7 points or less, but many love to nitpick Tyrod for garbage time. My contention is that with our defense performing the way it did last year we would not have been able to overcome all the extra turnovers that come with Rivers (21 INTs and 9 Fumbles vs. 6 INTs and 4 Fumbles). Rivers had 33 TDs to Tyrod's 23 last year, but 10 extra TDs do not make up for 20 more turnovers. It's just my opinion, but we would have won fewer games last year with Rivers than we did with Tyrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I'm also on the Tyrod train. At least when it comes to Rivers. I never really understood these kinds of topics. Trade X for an imposible Y. There is zero chance a trade like this would happen. A new coach, gm.. are not going to bank their future on a quarterback on his last legs. You either make it or break it on getting a young guy. Is tyrod that guy? Probably not. But you know what he is? Serviceable. Is Peterman the guy? Jones? Next year? It's all a crap shoot. But there is ZERO chance I want to trade for a quarterback who I watched throw his temper tantrum like a baby in Ralph Wilson stadium when the power went out and he didn't have a play clock hahaha.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 6 of our 8 losses (with Tyrod) were by 7 points or less, but many love to nitpick Tyrod for garbage time. My contention is that with our defense performing the way it did last year we would not have been able to overcome all the extra turnovers that come with Rivers (21 INTs and 9 Fumbles vs. 6 INTs and 4 Fumbles). Rivers had 33 TDs to Tyrod's 23 last year, but 10 extra TDs do not make up for 20 more turnovers. It's just my opinion, but we would have won fewer games last year with Rivers than we did with Tyrod. Would that make it fair to say "I'm guessing lots of his TD's and yards were in garbage time" then? I can understand your contention, and I may even agree. I just think 2016 Rivers is the exception, not the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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