Big C Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 I think maybe this is a difference in how we perceive the bolded phrase. Yes, they definitely CAN make the playoffs. Every year some darkhorse team sneaks in. There's really not a whole lot to be said for why the Dolphins are superior to the Bills. But that's not building a team that (if everything plays out as expected) should make the playoffs. We've been living in that "if the ball bounces our way in a few key situations and we stay healthy and other teams that are more talented than us have flukey bad seasons we can sneak in" world for what now? A dozen years? 17 years? That's not what I mean by building a team with the talent to expect a playoff appearance. So what about picking a CB at 10 says we are ready for the playoffs that trading down and drafting a CB doesn't? I mean, is Marshon Lattimore going to take us to the playoffs? Is he that much better than White? I think our trade was more of an opportunist play. You know you want a DB, and you see good DBs all up and down the board, and someone is offering you two picks of considerable value to stick to pick a comparable player? I mean Lattimore is definitely the better prospect, but in White you get a four-year starter who may be more pro-ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 I don't like any of the WR that are left. I definitely don't want one tonight. I think by passing on guys like Howard the dude from miami and engram, it tells us the bills have a lot of faith in Logan Thomas. Thomas, Holmes are two HUGE WR threats. We have Watkins and a bunch of 3s and 4s. No number two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 It's the right question to ask. The Bills keep kicking the can down the road at QB, and two more AFC teams took their shot. When do we get to winning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 We have Watkins and a bunch of 3s and 4s. No number two. how many picks do they have yet in this draft? this roster is not even set yet so rather than shut the door on the season like those who have already thrown in the towel, I'm going to leave it open a crack with the hopes they are a competitive team. be nice to see another top 10 offense with a top 5 or 10 defense to go along with it this year? that said, I see the streak come to an end as I feel they win 10 games and earn a wc spot...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 (edited) Not at all. I think it would be nuts to assume that he will be as good as Gilmore in his rookie season. Overall the talent of the losses is going to exceed the talent of the additions, at least in 2017. And since some of the additions are now going to be deferred to 2018, I think it only makes sense to assume - and for the record, I agree with this assumption, and am glad the Bills (new) management has made it! - that this team knows 2017 and 2018 are, at best, transitional years.So what you really meant is that by not signing Gilmore to a top 3 CB deal, or franchising him, they signified they didn't think they would be in the playoffs anytime soon. Not because of the trade down. Because White should be considered an upgrade (to Seymour) at a position of need at this time ... post-Gilmore. While I don't know if I necessarily agree with that, it does make more sense than what you originally said. Jmo Edited April 28, 2017 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samwell Tarly Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 The answer to that question has multiple moving parts. Simply making the playoffs is not as complicated as the Bills have made it look. All the other dysfunctional franchises have gotten lucky occasionally for different reasons. It's actually statistically odd that the Bills have missed this many times in a row. Qb is a big cog in the wheel, but lots of less than stellar qbs have made playoff appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 Explain please. If you're Whaley/McD and you think you're on the verge of winning now, why do you trade down to add another 1st rounder next year? I guess you could say "because we're so good right now we don't need that #10 overall to put us over the top" ... Why does trading down lead you to think they're giving up on the season? They got a sold starter in White, in a position that we desperately needed new players at. And they picked up more picks while doing it. Who would you have picked at 10 that would "put us over the top?" Lattimore? Howard? Who? Picking a QB at 10 would've been more of a signal that the Bills are starting over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 The answer to that question has multiple moving parts. Simply making the playoffs is not as complicated as the Bills have made it look. All the other dysfunctional franchises have gotten lucky occasionally for different reasons. It's actually statistically odd that the Bills have missed this many times in a row. Qb is a big cog in the wheel, but lots of less than stellar qbs have made playoff appearances. There's no stat that says "it's only fair" to make the NFL playoffs. Going 0-2 as a gimme (usually) against a division opponent like the Pats is something no other team has had to put up with the last dozen or so years. Playing for the WC at best every year from week 1 is brutal. Actually I can guarantee a team won't make the playoffs for 1,000 years if they don't put together a competitive squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juice_32 Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 My non-sarcastic/bet real money on it answer? 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted April 28, 2017 Author Share Posted April 28, 2017 Why does trading down lead you to think they're giving up on the season? They got a sold starter in White, in a position that we desperately needed new players at. And they picked up more picks while doing it. Who would you have picked at 10 that would "put us over the top?" Lattimore? Howard? Who? Picking a QB at 10 would've been more of a signal that the Bills are starting over. It might not have worked, but had they taken Howard I would've had the opposite reaction. Something like, I guess Bills management is going to take one (or two) last big shots at making a run while they still have all these (ostensibly) high-caliber players (McCoy, Dareus, Hughes, Glenn, Richie, Clay, even Tyrod) still under contract and still (arguably) in the latter part of their prime years. Because if Howard is everything his proponents think he is, that's something that makes the team immediately much better. Likewise, if they had traded up (no, I don't think this would have been a good idea!) I would be of the same mind. Look, everyone's so sensitive here. This post is about what Bills management (really McD at this point, since Whaley seems at least somewhat marginalized) is thinking about their prospects over the next 1-4 years. Moving up for Sammy in 2014 said "we're trying to make a run right now." Moving down in 2017 says "we're unlikely to make a run right now, let's reload an aim for a future year." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan692 Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 The bills did get a clear upgrade at the top position of need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 My guess: The next time the Bills have a winning record, they will go to the playoffs. And that will happen in 2019-2020 season.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseTooth Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 Anyone out there want to argue for 2018? 2019? Come on, convince me that I'm wrong! Ehhhhhh.... That's a hard one. Maybe 2019 with a lucky Franchise QB pick. Or really lucky Dak Prescott type scenario. Other than that, I don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 To be a playoff team that gives us a gutpunch as they learn how to win in the playoffs? Don't forget we went through the Ickey Shuffle and Harmon dropping the winning TD the first two runs with Kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 how many picks do they have yet in this draft? this roster is not even set yet so rather than shut the door on the season like those who have already thrown in the towel, I'm going to leave it open a crack with the hopes they are a competitive team. be nice to see another top 10 offense with a top 5 or 10 defense to go along with it this year? that said, I see the streak come to an end as I feel they win 10 games and earn a wc spot...? I think they take a WR in the second round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 I wouldn't be surprised that under Dennison, Tyrod becomes a top ten QB...so I do think it is possible we make the playoffs this season...if not then, then 2018....if not then...yeah, we are in re-building mode and need to start over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorquemada Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 when we get a qb..plus 1-2 yrs...so if lucky 2019 or 2020 not reading the whole thread but this is the answer. tank this year (unintentionally of course!) use picks to maneuver to wherever we need to be in the draft to pick whomever the best QB is, a year of seasoning then 2020. This pretty much has to be the plan. Who knows, maybe we wont be terrible this year, but 1st year coach, new schemes, lost some players, looks pretty grim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted April 28, 2017 Author Share Posted April 28, 2017 (edited) My baseball team is the Rockies. (Yeah, I'm a glutton for punishment.) And they've specialized in the Half Assed Rebuild. Every year they have some good talent, but every year it's clear that they project as a 73-78 win team. And every year some projected 73-78 win team makes the playoffs. So every offseason it's the same: let's tinker with this or that. Let's get marginally better in some phase of the game. But heaven forbid we do what the Astros or Cubs did and take it completely apart and start from scratch. The fans would revolt! That's what disappoints me about this offseason. I saw two defensible paths to take. One was to go all in for 2017. They really aren't far from a playoff team, if by playoff team we mean Dolphins or Texans quality playoff team. I think there's enough talent on this roster to have done that. I advocated restructuring Tyrod's deal and bringing him back, and so when I did that, that's what I thought would happen in the draft - try to get a major impact player at 10. In fact, starting EJ in that last game vs. the Jets for draft position (and to avoid an injury to Tyrod) suggested the same to me. This is the path I preferred. One last shot. All in, and if it doesn't work, full tank in 2018 with an eye toward doing a Cleveland rebuild. The other defensible path was to start the rebuild now. That would've meant handing it over to Cardale or a rookie draft pick and looking for the best value you could get in a trade for Sammy and/or McCoy. You certainly could've made the draft trade with KC in this scenario, but then you'd want to do what Cleveland did and stockpile even more 2018 draft picks for leverage to trade up. And you'd probably go 3-13 or 2-14 and 2018 would be a new beginning. But they steered the middle course, the Rockies Half Assed model. At the trading deadline in 2015 the Rockies traded formerly great SS (and huge contract) Troy Tulowitzki for prospects. Here's the rebuild! Then in the offseason they signed mediocre outfielder Gerardo Parra to a 4 year, $9 million/year contract, and signed/traded for a few aging relievers for a combined $15 million or so. Hey, we're gonna double down on going .500 after all! Crap or get off the pot. For the Bills, it's now a little bit of looking past 2017 to the longer range future, a little bit of trying to field a competitive team in 2017. Trying to please everyone and pleasing no one. Spinning their wheels. Praying that for once half a dozen things break their way and they go 9-7 and get in the playoffs while all the while trying to get better by, say, 2019. Let me just say that this usually doesn't end well, not in the current year, and not in future years. Edited April 28, 2017 by The Frankish Reich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 When they actually make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted April 28, 2017 Author Share Posted April 28, 2017 not reading the whole thread but this is the answer. tank this year (unintentionally of course!) use picks to maneuver to wherever we need to be in the draft to pick whomever the best QB is, a year of seasoning then 2020. This pretty much has to be the plan. Who knows, maybe we wont be terrible this year, but 1st year coach, new schemes, lost some players, looks pretty grim. And I am not so secretly hoping that they do tank this year. It wouldn't take much - Tyrod missing a chunk of games would for sure do it. Probably McCoy too. It's not that I want them to lose any given game; I'll be watching and rooting like hell for them. But the objective side of me sees the value in a 2-14 end .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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