Hogan and Gilly Prove Bills Scouting Superiority

[JM2009]

In November 2012 Hogan was cut by the Dolphins, Bills pick him up for free in October on a modest contract he contributes although minimally for years here and leaves. The Pats pay an average of 4 million per year for the guy we got for a minimum contract yet Whaley is a moron Hoodie is a genius. In September 2015 Dolphins release Mike Gillislee, Bills pick him up for absolutely nothing get a few years of production and a bunch of touchdowns. He leaves with a replacement already in place. Pats give us a 5th round pick in a crazy deep draft and pay him ten times what we did, Whaley is an idiot Belichick is the second coming. In 2012 The Bills draft S. Gilmore at 10 give him a 4 year 12 million dollar contract. He's a good player that no one would confuse with Richard Sherman, Patrick Peterson, or Revis (maybe now but not in his prime). From 2012-2016 Pats draft 8 DBs, not one of them got anything close to a 5 year 65 million dollar contract but someone did, yup Stephon Gilmore draftee of the "worst GM in the league". Whaley may not be the fav of local media (which I assume is due to the fact that he has something to do with crushing their former sources) or some percentage of fans, but he clearly has some major admirers in New England, and in the front offices of many other NFL teams I'd bet. Be careful what you wish for Bills fans, Whaley is by far the best GM that's been here since Bill Polian and this may be the year he proves to be in the upper 20% if we get 2 or 3 contributors in this draft which is very realistic.

John Butler is the best GM the Bills have had since Polian.

[PromoTheRobot]

John Butler is the best GM the Bills have had since Polian.

Erik Flowers and the 2000 draft hi.

Edited April 25, 2017 by PromoTheRobot

[Bill from NYC]

Not surprised you think you speak for all fans. If it really was all Coach Tuesdays I wouldn't be here because you wouldn't learn anything. Thankfully there are intelligent posters who bring insight to TBD and make it great. But you have to take the bad with the good.

Fans are rightfully angry at the mess the Bills have given us. It would be hard to not make the playoffs for 17 years even if you were trying not to. So yes, anger at the Bills organization makes sense.

 

Your anger is at the fans. You appear to hate us. I for one understand that this is your own way of coping. But passing this off as objectivity is nonsense. It's easier for you to take out your frustration on fans like Coach T, me and others than it is to face the fact that the Bills are run poorly and have been for many, many years.

 

I think that Bills Fans are some of the most loyal, most intelligent and funniest of sports fans but hey that's just me.

[JM2009]

Erik Flowers says hi.

We last made the playoffs on his watch. That 1999 team was good enough to go to the SB. results do count for most people.

Fans are rightfully angry at the mess the Bills have given us. It would be hard to not make the playoffs for 17 years even if you were trying not to. So yes, anger at the Bills organization makes sense.

 

Your anger is at the fans. You appear to hate us. I for one understand that this is your own way of coping. But passing this off as objectivity is nonsense. It's easier for you to take out your frustration on fans like Coach T, me and others than it is to face the fact that the Bills are run poorly and have been for many, many years.

 

I think that Bills Fans are some of the most loyal, most intelligent and funniest of sports fans but hey that's just me.

Anyone that blames the fans or the media for this long debacle is ignorant. That's all you can say.

[PromoTheRobot]

Fans are rightfully angry at the mess the Bills have given us. It would be hard to not make the playoffs for 17 years even if you were trying not to. So yes, anger at the Bills organization makes sense.

 

Your anger is at the fans. You appear to hate us. I for one understand that this is your own way of coping. But passing this off as objectivity is nonsense. It's easier for you to take out your frustration on fans like Coach T, me and others than it is to face the fact that the Bills are run poorly and have been for many, many years.

 

I think that Bills Fans are some of the most loyal, most intelligent and funniest of sports fans but hey that's just me.

Nothing good comes from misdirected anger. Being angry is not an excuse to mislead people. I agree, 17 years of mediocrity is a reason for anger. So is it better for people to come here and have their anger stoked by misinformation?

[Iron Maiden]

Overall, I like Whaley....but, to be honest, after a 17 year drought that is still going strong, I'm don't think " Superiority " is the correct word.....and compare to who ? Cleveland ?

[JM2009]

Nothing good comes from misdirected anger. Being angry is not an excuse to mislead people. I agree, 17 years of mediocrity is a reason for anger. So is it better for people to come here and have their anger stoked by misinformation?

Misinformation is trying to convince others what a wonderful job Whaley has done. You can join John Murphy on his show.

[PromoTheRobot]

Misinformation is trying to convince others what a wonderful job Whaley has done. You can join John Murphy on his show.

In this thread alone several people have said they don't understand why Whaley gets so much grief, so I'm not alone trying to apply some reason to assessing his tenure. But it's more fun setting fire to everything.

[TC in St. Louis]

 

huh?

 

I meant to type running out of time. My bad. I'll fix it. Thanks.

 

And I do wonder how Gronk would have done had we taken him. We haven't been able to work in a tight end since Pete.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

In November 2012 Hogan was cut by the Dolphins, Bills pick him up for free in October on a modest contract he contributes although minimally for years here and leaves. The Pats pay an average of 4 million per year for the guy we got for a minimum contract yet Whaley is a moron Hoodie is a genius. In September 2015 Dolphins release Mike Gillislee, Bills pick him up for absolutely nothing get a few years of production and a bunch of touchdowns. He leaves with a replacement already in place. Pats give us a 5th round pick in a crazy deep draft and pay him ten times what we did, Whaley is an idiot Belichick is the second coming. In 2012 The Bills draft S. Gilmore at 10 give him a 4 year 12 million dollar contract. He's a good player that no one would confuse with Richard Sherman, Patrick Peterson, or Revis (maybe now but not in his prime). From 2012-2016 Pats draft 8 DBs, not one of them got anything close to a 5 year 65 million dollar contract but someone did, yup Stephon Gilmore draftee of the "worst GM in the league". Whaley may not be the fav of local media (which I assume is due to the fact that he has something to do with crushing their former sources) or some percentage of fans, but he clearly has some major admirers in New England, and in the front offices of many other NFL teams I'd bet. Be careful what you wish for Bills fans, Whaley is by far the best GM that's been here since Bill Polian and this may be the year he proves to be in the upper 20% if we get 2 or 3 contributors in this draft which is very realistic.

For those who were really paying attention for the last 20 years Whaley is doing a pretty decent job, markedly better than his predecessors at least back to Donahoe maybe even Polian and I suspect will only get even better as a process oriented guy.

[folz]

 

It's way more nuanced why NE wins...they set the trends which develop mismatches. Just one example is how they focused in 2010 on adding TE's who could run the middle of the field. Or in recent years, having a back who punishes DB's behind their OL. The same DB's who then have to defend against their (as of last year) 2 TE's. Other teams followed their lead on that, which is easier because college TE's are more often pass-catchers.

 

People focus so much on players because they can't see scheme until it hits them right in the face. Minimizing NE's success down to Brady and Belichick is intellectually dishonest and an easy out for those who know their team is still scrambling around trying to field a decent roster.

 

I don't understand...isn't it Belichick (and/or Ernie, who is there because of Belichick) who sets these trends to develop mismatches or to skirt the rules? You can't be saying that if Belichick was gone, we would find out that it is actually Kraft or someone in administration who are creating these football trends, can you?

 

And (not to you BillsVet, but to other posters) the idea that a GM is not getting players a coach wants, but just grabbing who he thinks is best, is ridiculous and I don't think any organization in the league works that way. In some places, the coach's voice may be stronger, in others the GM may have final say, but they all work together. It would be counter-productive to draft players that definitely do not fit a coaches scheme. So, when looking at Whaley, you cannot discount the coaching changes.

 

The following weren't draft picks (it is hard to tell with draft picks) but would Whaley have brought in Harvin, IK, Salas, or maybe even Tyrod if Rex wasn't the coach? Those were players Rex worked with and wanted and Whaley got them. And even Shaq Lawson, Rex told him months before the draft that he was going to pick him. Whaley and the staff may have been totally on board because he was good value where he went, but he was a guy Rex wanted. And I hear posters use Percy Harvin as a knock on Whaley when he obviously brought him in because Rex wanted him. I'm not saying Whaley is the best GM ever, but the posters who claim that 3 coaching changes doesn't affect who the GM picks or how many of those picks are still on the roster are not being realistic. And two of those coaches were not the choice of said GM either.

[JM2009]

In this thread alone several people have said they don't understand why Whaley gets so much grief, so I'm not alone trying to apply some reason to assessing his tenure. But it's more fun setting fire to everything.

Results speak. The results are not good enough.

[NewEra]

Philly's defense was the fourth best in the league, up from 17th the year before. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

 

Bear in mind that they played the hardest offensive schedule in the league. They were excellent.

 

After further review, I'm still not very impressed with the eagle D

 

1 September 11 Cleveland Browns W 29–10 1–0

2 September 19 at Chicago Bears W 29–14 2–0

3 September 25 Pittsburgh Steelers W 34–3 3–0

4 Bye

5 October 9 at Detroit Lions L 23–24 3–1

6 October 16 at Washington Redskins L 20–27

7 October 23 Minnesota Vikings W 21–10 4–2

8 October 30 at Dallas Cowboys L 23–29 (OT) 4–3

9 November 6 at New York Giants L 23–28 4–4

10 November 13 Atlanta Falcons W 24–15 5–4

11 November 20 at Seattle Seahawks L 15–26 5–5

12 November 28 Green Bay Packers L 13–27 5–6

13 December 4 at Cincinnati Bengals L 14–32 5–7

14 December 11 Washington Redskins L 22–27 5–8

15 December 18 at Baltimore Ravens L 26–27 5-9

16 December 22 New York Giants W 24–19 6–9

17 January 1 Dallas Cowboys W 27–13 7–9

 

They faced 3 bad offenses in Cleveland, Chicago and the Vikings. The ravens weren't all that good in O, Rex's D shut them down minus 1 big play. Cincinnati put up 32 without Aj green. I remember watching the steeler game and was throughly impressed. Didn't see the Atlanta game but it looked like another great result. They gave up 24+ points in 9 games, albeit vs some good offenses (and a few that were just ok). In 2014 Schwartz we gave up 24+ 3 times all year (24 to Denver, 26 to Oakland and 37 to NE) and finished 4th in points against and 4th in yards against. Sure, the schedule is different but the results are the only thing that really matters. Either you get it done or you don't. The 2014 Bills D was much better than 2016 eagle D.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Goes to show you we have talent...just shitz coaching.

[Billy Zabka]

 

Here's a tissue. Wipe your chin.

 

This from a guy covered in Whaley DNA . You constantly and vigorously defend every single move the Bills make despite 17 years of failure. That shows you have no credibility and very limited football knowledge.

 

You want to be a blind cheerleader for OBD then fine go ahead, but why not let the grownups with valid criticisms of this failed organization have their adult conversations and you can sit at the kiddie table with your pom poms.

[JM2009]

 

This from a guy covered in Whaley DNA . You constantly and vigorously defend every single move the Bills make despite 17 years of failure. That shows you have no credibility and very limited football knowledge.

 

You want to be a blind cheerleader for OBD then fine go ahead, but why not let the grownups with valid criticisms of this failed organization have their adult conversations and you can sit at the kiddie table with your pom poms.

Harsh, but accurate.

[NewEra]

Results speak. The results are not good enough.

The results aren't good enough. You're right. They're not good enough because he hasn't gotten himself a good QB or HC. Who hired Rex? Pegulas or Whaley? I don't know for sure, everything I've read suggests that he was Pegulas hire. If that's the case, the results hasn't been good enough because the owner made a really poor choice hiring the HC. The talent was there on O (minus qb) and D. Most fans agree. We had a 3 year window to make some noise, but didn't have the QB or the HC to make it happen. The QB is on him and is his lone gaff imo. Uncertain if hiring Rex is on him or not. Some of the great talent he acquired outpriced itself this offseason and it stings. Now he has some more work cut out for him on top of acquiring a good qb.

[Rico]

 

This from a guy covered in Whaley DNA . You constantly and vigorously defend every single move the Bills make despite 17 years of failure. That shows you have no credibility and very limited football knowledge.

 

You want to be a blind cheerleader for OBD then fine go ahead, but why not let the grownups with valid criticisms of this failed organization have their adult conversations and you can sit at the kiddie table with your pom poms.

Nice post.

[Billy Zabka]

In November 2012 Hogan was cut by the Dolphins, Bills pick him up for free in October on a modest contract he contributes although minimally for years here and leaves. The Pats pay an average of 4 million per year for the guy we got for a minimum contract yet Whaley is a moron Hoodie is a genius. In September 2015 Dolphins release Mike Gillislee, Bills pick him up for absolutely nothing get a few years of production and a bunch of touchdowns. He leaves with a replacement already in place. Pats give us a 5th round pick in a crazy deep draft and pay him ten times what we did, Whaley is an idiot Belichick is the second coming. In 2012 The Bills draft S. Gilmore at 10 give him a 4 year 12 million dollar contract. He's a good player that no one would confuse with Richard Sherman, Patrick Peterson, or Revis (maybe now but not in his prime). From 2012-2016 Pats draft 8 DBs, not one of them got anything close to a 5 year 65 million dollar contract but someone did, yup Stephon Gilmore draftee of the "worst GM in the league". Whaley may not be the fav of local media (which I assume is due to the fact that he has something to do with crushing their former sources) or some percentage of fans, but he clearly has some major admirers in New England, and in the front offices of many other NFL teams I'd bet. Be careful what you wish for Bills fans, Whaley is by far the best GM that's been here since Bill Polian and this may be the year he proves to be in the upper 20% if we get 2 or 3 contributors in this draft which is very realistic.

 

Whaley is a good scout but a bad General manager. He is great at finding individual talent, but as far as putting a team together, managing the cap, running a draft, and working with and leading others...he isn't up to the job.

[NewEra]

This from a guy covered in Whaley DNA . You constantly and vigorously defend every single move the Bills make despite 17 years of failure. That shows you have no credibility and very limited football knowledge.

 

You want to be a blind cheerleader for OBD then fine go ahead, but why not let the grownups with valid criticisms of this failed organization have their adult conversations and you can sit at the kiddie table with your pom poms.

He doesn't defend every single move. Exaggerating doesn't make your point any more valid, it just makes you look like you have to make stuff up in order to get your point across. Do you think we had good enough talent across the board to make the playoffs the last 3 years? We didn't make the playoffs because our roster sucked. We didn't make the playoffs because our HC sucks and our QB wasn't good enough. He put together a very solid roster. He just didn't get us a qb or a HC. Two MAJOR pieces to the puzzle and he deserves all the criticism he receives for that.